Registration of Business Name for trusts ?

[Tandella]

Hi all,

Is it a legal requirement that all trusts registered with the ATO / ASIC must also undertake a Registration of Business Name with the Office of Fair Trading as well (for trusts based in NSW) ?
http://blis.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/BLISPROD/NSW/PDF/AP225A.PDF
Or is it only required if the business is not trading under the proprietor's (the trusts) name ?

Thanks.

 

[geoffw]

Neither of my NSW family trusts required a business name registration. One is imaginitively named "The Whitfield Family Trust"- I'm sure that's not a unique name.

The corporate trustee (for the trust where I'm not a personal trustee) had to have its business name regustered.

 

[Tandella]

Thanks for that Geoff.

The corporate trustee (for the trust where I'm not a personal trustee) had to have its business name regustered.

Is that because the corporate trustee (company ABC) is also trading as the trust name it is trustee for (trust XYZ) ?

T.

 

[Aceyducey]

Tandella,

A corporation requires incorporation (registration).

A business requires a business name registration (except if you use your own name)

A Trust requires a Trust name - which is part of your Trust deed.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

PS:

One is imaginitively named "The Whitfield Family Trust"- I'm sure that's not a unique name.

Geoff,

I think it may be more unique than you think. I can't see anyone with a different surname choosing to call their trust 'The Whitfield Family'

 

[geoffw]

Thanks for that Geoff.

Is that because the corporate trustee (company ABC) is also trading as the trust name it is trustee for (trust XYZ) ?

I'm not sure Tandella. But the company did not have any involvement with the trust when it was registered- it is a company and nothing else. I assume that I could use the company in any way I wish- it's association with the trust is incidental. (Though I would not use a trustee company for any other purpose).

 

[Tandella]

Tandella,

A corporation requires incorporation (registration).

A business requires a business name registration (except if you use your own name)

A Trust requires a Trust name - which is part of your Trust deed.

Yep, in their simplest terms, that is how I understood those entities as well. However after reading that PDF from the OFT, it states that :
"A business name is simply a name or title under which a person or other legal entity may conduct its business."
So I assumed that our trust is a "business" (because it has an ABN), hence why I asked whether we need to register it as a Business Name with the OFT ?

The PDF also talks about trustees registering for a business name :
"a trustee - The name of the Trustee as well as the Trust must be shown on the application form. For example, John Brown, as Trustee for the Brown Family Trust."
Again, as I am a trustee, I assume this Business Name registration would be applicable to me ?

Still not totally clear for me...

T.

 

[Aceyducey]

Tandella,

The 'simplest' form is the correct form.

A Trust is NOT a business. It's a holding entity.

It cannot manage it's own affairs in it's own name.

ABNs are a regulatory & administrative tool.

Remember all these things are legal constructs of humans, they're not real in any material sense

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Tandella]

A Trust is NOT a business. It's a holding entity.

Just reading back through my notes from NickM (my accountant), he stated that : "If the trust is a trading trust, then it is advisable that the Trustee be a company".
From that, my understanding was that a "trading" trust is one that is used for business purposes. Which then leads me to question : where is the distinction made between a "holding" trust and a "trading" trust ?

It cannot manage it's own affairs in it's own name.

So then in whose name are its affairs managed ? The trustees ?

This is raising more questions than answers for me at the moment. Sorry

Thanks.

 

[JustAMum]

A trust manages the affairs on behalf of the BENIFICIARIES. It is not a legal entity like a company. It is just a 'holding entity' on behalf of the benificiaries, and is contolled by the TRUSTEES, for the benifit of the benificiaries.

sticky JAM

 

[MasterInvestor]

Hi Geoff

It is not a good idea to have your family name as part of your trust name. This makes it very easy for people to track down - eg. potential creditors. If they track it down, it may be subject to attack, whereas if none can find it, they will be none the wiser.

 

[Aceyducey]

Hi Geoff

It is not a good idea to have your family name as part of your trust name. This makes it very easy for people to track down - eg. potential creditors. If they track it down, it may be subject to attack, whereas if none can find it, they will be none the wiser.

MasterInvestor,

Attacking a Trust is worthless - you can't sue it anyway...which is why you use a corporate trustee which can be folded.

And why would you be hiding from creditors anyway? Seems a rather pointless exercise to me.

MasterInvestor, I think you may need to read up some more on the legal aspects of trusts!

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[Ecogirl]

MasterInvestor
Well I guess my creditors will be finding me no problems
my Trust is - A Ward's Early Retirement Trust
and my Co is - A Ward's Early Retirement Enterprises
or something like that
rather imaginative I know but life affirming for me
and yes - I'm the A Ward

Ecogirl

 

[tubs]

Business name for a trust

Hi

From my understanding you trade as ABC Pty Ltd as Trustee for the Jones Family Trust. Alternatively, the business you were running through your trust could have a name registered with the OFT. Your business name would be something like Jones Consulting. The complete name for your business would be ABC Pty Ltd as Trustee for the Jones Family Trust trading as Jones Consulting. However, you wouldnt need to use anything other than Jones Consulting on most correspondance.

And running a business through a trust is not pointless. Given how litigious society is nowadays people can sue your for anything.

 

[David E-Noosa]

I operate as (example name only)

Ridge Pty Ltd atf Ridge Trust trading as Ridge Realty

Ridge Trust is a family trust but as you know it does not need to include the words "family" in its name. There can be hundreds of trusts named "Ridge Trust" as stated it does not matter.