Rent or buy, families hit a brick wall...SMH

[boomtown]

Some of you older folk should be a bit careful with the hubris as well.

I know quite a few "kids" in their late 20s or early 30s that are financially supporting their parents in their 50s or 60s because those parents have fallen on hard times - either gone through a nasty divorce, had a business fall over, things have just not worked out or they came from a non-english speaking background and never really got ahead.

And the kids happily step in and do it because they have the ability to provide that support and at the end of the day its family. What are they going to do - kick their mum out onto the street because dad took off with all the cash? You know how hard it is to raise a family when there is at least one parent who is also financially dependent on you?

At least kids grow up eventually. A parent that is 60 years old and financially dependent on the kids will never break out of that.

So be a little more careful when you are slanging the young ones - because they pick your rest home. After all, it if it all goes to hell they will be the ones paying your bills.

 

[BayView]

I am a border Gen X / Y ,

if I live at home and after 3 years time I have saved a deposit of about
200k, I can choose to stay in Aus/Sydney to pay for a mortgage
for my life, or I can choose to move to the US, at pretty much
the same salary, and can BUY a house there,

what will I do ???

Depends where you choose to live.

For $200k you won't get ANYTHING worth living in in cities like L.A, San Fran, New York, Chicago - the main ones. You will if you go out to the back blocks, or to places like Detroit or Buffalo where the towns are dying.

You can do that here, and you're still amongst Aussies.

There is absolutely no improvement on moving from here to the US to live, other than a change of scenery, and speaking English as a second language almost. It's the United States of Mexico these days.

In fact, here is a much better economy overall - cheaper standard of living for essentials, however consumer items are cheaper generally in the US - cars, clothes, electronics, sporting goods etc

The US has unaffordable health care (that is anything worth having), there is 1.5% property tax every year, tipping on everything, and many more little pains in the @rse that'll nickel and dime you to poverty unless you are earning over $100k per year at least.

I would call $100k per year the minimum wage to be earning to have anything like a comfortable middle-class life if you are in a bigger city or town.

Go there for a 4 week holiday before you decide if the grass is really greener.

 

[josko]

Dazz, you are 100% spot on! I didn't move out of home until I was 22 (not too long ago turned 23 ) and I wish my parents had of kicked me out of home when I was 18! I've done more growing up in the last 12 months moving out of home than in the last 5 years at home rent free with food bought & cooked, laundry done, etc.

I will NEVER live with my parents again, ever.

I disagree with the guy in the article saying it is necessary to live with your parents to save for a deposit with the current property market - I live in a little dump of a unit I share with another guy for $110/wk and I earn far above the average income so I could afford to live in a much nicer place with nice furniture and what not, but to me it's a matter of priorities.

Good on you Bon,

I guess I sort of stand somewhere inbetween.

I won't kick them out just because they are 18 etc and should be gone, but if they are not saving and are lazy...out they go.

No lazy Gen Z's in my house!

Regards Jo


Regards Jo

 

[boomtown]

And Dazz - I do hope that if one or more of your children shows an inclination to become a doctor, developer or bond trader you will provide them with some support in that regard.

No one gets to anywhere without a team effort. And it would be mighty churlish to deny a helping hand to your own offspring when they could most use it.

Im not advocating mollycoddling but I dont know many top performing business people that didnt have supportive parents. Kerry Packer didnt exactly do it entirely off his own bat. Neither did Warren Buffett.

 

[HiEquity]

Im not advocating mollycoddling but I dont know many top performing business people that didnt have supportive parents. Kerry Packer didnt exactly do it entirely off his own bat.

To me there are two options here. Either your kids are using your generosity as an excuse for sitting back and chilling out on the beach or they are out there hard at work / study and investing at the same time, doing things they wouldn't be able to do if they were kicked out of home with no income while at uni, ineligible for Austudy with HECS debts mounting (for example).

I've seen both sides - the young adults who just take advantage of the situation and blow their money on partying and the others who use every single millimetre of leg up their parents gave them to achieve great things they wouldn't have otherwise been able to (at minimal cost to their parents).

I think as a parent who have to be honest and tough enough with both yourself and your kids to work out if you are advancing or hindering your offspring's development by helping them. And act accordingly... the right course of action is very much dependent on the attitude of the young person involved and they should know it!

 

[tropic]

I chose to leave home, actually the country, when I was 18. My parents paid for my education and I forever in debt to them.
Now we have 2 children we do not plan to kick them out when they are 18. I do not believe that you have to kick your children out when they reach 17,18 or 19.
If they show incentive to share some houseworks and continue with their study or build a career, we will be quite happy for them to stay a bit longer.
Teaching them to be good people is more important to us right now, in time they will understand they will have to be independent and leave home. Both of my siblings left home when they were 24, I can't say that I am more independent, successful or better person than them now. One of them actually gets along very well with my parents.
I do believe that some kids will benefit from leaving home early but there are circumstances where they will be better off staying home.

 

[boomtown]

Look we actually agree.

Im just pissed off because I know a dad that owns 30+ IPs but won't give his daughter a cent towards her education. Mostly because hes a prime time *******.

 

[wylie]

To me there are two options here. Either your kids are using your generosity as an excuse for sitting back and chilling out on the beach or they are out there hard at work / study and investing at the same time, doing things they wouldn't be able to do if they were kicked out of home with no income while at uni, ineligible for Austudy with HECS debts mounting (for example).

I've seen both sides - the young adults who just take advantage of the situation and blow their money on partying and the others who use every single millimetre of leg up their parents gave them to achieve great things they wouldn't have otherwise been able to (at minimal cost to their parents).

I think as a parent who have to be honest and tough enough with both yourself and your kids to work out if you are advancing or hindering your offspring's development by helping them. And act accordingly... the right course of action is very much dependent on the attitude of the young person involved and they should know it!

Absolutely spot on. Our 19 year old son is in second year uni and working two jobs to save. He spends very little but what he does spend is on clothes and shoes. He likes to look good, which is fine. He is paying minimal board but if he was out partying, we would increase that.

If we had kicked him out of home at 18 he would struggle to do the amount of uni work he needs to do because he would have to work every day just to pay his share of the rent somewhere.

He frustrates the dickins out of us sometimes, but "kicking him out" is just not on the agenda while he is putting his head down at uni and working hard to save his money.

Once he finishes his degree, that is another story. But I have learnt never to say "my kid will leave home at 18 regardless" because sometimes life doesn't turn out how you want it to.

Would you like your 18 year old daughters or sons to have to live in a fleabag house with perhaps undesirable people when there is a bedroom at home? It might toughen them up alright, but it is not the only way to make a well rounded adult.

 

[travelbug]

And dont get me started on the modern trend of holding kids back a year before they start school. Apparently so they can be at the top of the class. What a joke that is.

I agree in some areas it does get out of hand BUT:-

You can do a lot more damage by sending kids too early.
NSW is the only state to let kids start at 4 1/2. They are simply (with a very small exception) not ready. There are thousands of kids traumatized who never get over "failing" their first year of school. Very sad to see all their friends go to Year 1.

I wouldn't recommend June and July children to start until the following year. My viewpoint comes from 15 years of teaching. Half on kindergarten.
My class ranges in age by 16 months this year. That's huge. I have 2 that will have to repeat as they are not coping with the work.

 

[silversands]

Absolutely agree Wylie.

I believe there is SOME merit in what Daz said also - just not to such a strong degree.
I don't believe there is a magical age at which our offspring should be able to reach a certain level of independence. Each child will mature at a different pace. My 8 year old is already wiser than some adults I know. Yet my 13 year old would be horrified at being expected to be so independent at 18.
She still welcomes the discipline and guidance she receives and her friends think that's bizarre!

She doesn't care what they think. She still asks me to come along on school excursions! She is a motivated student and studies hard and has a great attitude to helping around the house. - Asks loads of questions about the economy and investing and displays evidence of being very savy re the world of finance. Because of her positive attitude, we would not consider turfing her out at the ripe old age of 18 (just because its the standard age that some stigma dictates she ought to leave) if she is not EMOTIONALLY ready.

They are only kids once, why rush them to grow up? Whilst they are still in my care, I can assist in molding them to be responsible young adults.

At the risk of sounding like an old woman, I believe if I push them out the door too fast, and they move in with other not so responsible teens, I will likely lose my ability to help and guide their decision making process.

 

[wylie]

And dont get me started on the modern trend of holding kids back a year before they start school. Apparently so they can be at the top of the class. What a joke that is.

My oldest son turned 5 the last week in December and we had the option of sending him school the next month or repeating his pre-school year.

We chose to repeat pre-school so that he was six when he started school. It meant he was one of the oldest kids in the class and it had absolutely nothing to do with being the top of the class.

All the advice we received from preschool teachers and primary school teachers pointed to the fact that he was more likey to be a "leader" than a "follower" and that he would be 13 when he went to high school. Being 13 among some 12 year olds meant he was less likely to be faced with "following" a bad crowd, especially regarding drug taking and sexuality issues.

I didn't really realise how important this was until his primary school graduation concert when it was quite obvious that the girls in his year (even some being a year younger than him) were quite developed, both physically and mentally.

I saw the same thing with my next son, and my youngest is now in his final primary year, and while he is January born, so older than most kids in his class, the girls are all giggling about boyfriends, shaving their legs, pashing etc, while the boys just are not up to speed with all that "stuff" and want to kick a soccer ball. Boys and girls at this age are mostly like chalk and cheese.

I was very thankful that we waited that year, and it had nothing to do with us wanting him to "shine" or be at the top of the class.

I am interested to hear where Evand formed that opinion, as it is not something I ever heard discussed by any teacher in our discussions regarding holding our son back.

 

[Dazz]

I believe there is SOME merit in what Daz said also - just not to such a strong degree.
I don't believe ......

…..and the very best thing of all about this subject and many others discussed on here in regard to human behaviour, where there is no definitive solution is of course…

Every sentence starts with “I believe”, so no matter which way the wind blows, or how good or how bad it all turns out, nobody is right and nobody is wrong. Brilliant.

Opinions dominate, and definitive facts are very scarce indeed. Modern western democracy at it’s peak. The nattering classes could drag this little debate out for years and not come to a definitive decision as to what is best. Of course.....no one would ever agree on what best means, and therefore it never matters.

Apparently the truly enlightened amongst us wouldn't care. Whatever is best for the community seems to be the politically correct answer. But even then, that's opinion based as well.....bugger.....we don't seem to be able to shake off the agenda setting people's opinion.

Absolutely perfect, a veritable hotbed of material for those amateur shrinks who love to delve into the unexplainable why and wherefores of human decision making and behaviour.

I truly believe in blue fairies with really big sticky out toes, but I certainly don't believe or support the idea of orange fairies with little toes.

....sigh....I’m going back to crunching numbers on property deals.

 

[BayView]

And dont get me started on the modern trend of holding kids back a year before they start school. Apparently so they can be at the top of the class. What a joke that is.

There's a great book out called "Raising Boys" by Steve Biddulph.

We bought it when our son was born, and in it he recommends holding back boys until they are at least 6 due to the maturity issue.

All the reasons he gives seem valid, and none of them are due to wanting the kid to be the best in the class, although there are no doubt a number of parents who would do it for this reason so they can one-up the Joneses again.

 

[GreatPig]

Back on the original rent or buy topic, this article fhttp://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/12/story.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=10522789rom NZ:

Buying house 'more than twice as dear as renting'.

GP

 

[silversands]

Always good for a laugh Daz! I also BELIEVE number crunching is more important for you right now - based on your current crisis! But thanks for the time you invested at giving us all a giggle!

Regards Jodie

 

[sparky23]

Another point to mention at this time is that $1600 per month in board goes a long way to helping with the interest payments!

 

[ethereal]

I left home the week I turned 17, before I finished school. There was no way I could have coped with staying any longer due to ongoing conflict with my parents. I moved into a room in a unit where I had to clear syringes from my cupboard before I put in my clothes. Everything (and it wasn't much) that I had worth anything was stolen. I got fed up and rented a house. I worked hard to put myself through uni, paid every bill on time and never missed with the rent. Often I didn't have money for food so I used to visit people at meal times. I wouldn't change any of it looking back yet as a parent I would be horrified to see my daughter do the same. Going through this process has made me a more open minded resilient person than I otherwise would have been.
My younger brother lives at home with Mum and Dad, who are now retired. They just loaned him money for a Corvette stingray. He makes more than Dad ever did and does nothing to help out. He says he'll never leave because he has it too good. He wants to take out a loan to put on a thrid floor extension for himself.
I won't kick my kids out at a particular age but I will be mindful to put myself first and not make them too comfortable as they approach adulthood. At 3 and 4 they are already at risk of taking over the house entirely. I'm a big softie at heart but I have to resist the urge to give them everything they want and leave them with some things to strive for for themselves.

Louise

 

[boomtown]

Yeah Ive had to clear syringes, porn and half burnt tea spoons on them out of a room I was renting. Former occupant had stopped paying rent - we left his stuff in the back yard until he picked it up.