We wanted the whirlybirds but the builder said it would void their warranty as it may cause leaks.
Storm broke one of our IP's roof but there wasn't any water damage inside. I believe all thanks to the sarking!
Sarking
- Thread starter monalisa
- Start date
We wanted the whirlybirds but the builder said it would void their warranty as it may cause leaks.
Storm broke one of our IP's roof but there wasn't any water damage inside. I believe all thanks to the sarking!
I'd go with R3.5-4.0 batts.
Builders only go for the minimum basix requirements, if they could still get away with not putting anything in many builders would.
Our local Hotondo builder combines R1.5 anticon with R1.5 batts to achieve basix (colorbond roof). In my mind this does not equal R3.0,There's a lot of space between the batts and the roof!
I got them to put R3.5 batts, R1.5 anticon in my mothers place, makes all the difference.
Builders only go for the minimum basix requirements, if they could still get away with not putting anything in many builders would.
Our local Hotondo builder combines R1.5 anticon with R1.5 batts to achieve basix (colorbond roof). In my mind this does not equal R3.0,There's a lot of space between the batts and the roof!
I got them to put R3.5 batts, R1.5 anticon in my mothers place, makes all the difference.
@ Devank - I was talking about insulation which is included as a standard. Sarking is separate.
@ Sanj - we are going with the Bristile Classic in Coal - which is not the darkest. We are going with this, as we prefer the tile look vs colour bond. Most houses in Sydney have tiled roofs.
They did not raise re upgrading the insulation as the home comes with basic insulation - I just happen to know someone who is building the same house, and upgraded to insulation to one available for homes in the builder's designer range.
It is a project home - so we have little say in what product they use. But it is one of the high end volume builders - so I expect it to be good quality.
@ Sanj - we are going with the Bristile Classic in Coal - which is not the darkest. We are going with this, as we prefer the tile look vs colour bond. Most houses in Sydney have tiled roofs.
They did not raise re upgrading the insulation as the home comes with basic insulation - I just happen to know someone who is building the same house, and upgraded to insulation to one available for homes in the builder's designer range.
It is a project home - so we have little say in what product they use. But it is one of the high end volume builders - so I expect it to be good quality.
ouch, dark tiled roof will definitely get hot. anticon is a no brainer as is higher rated batts.
the batts will play a bigger role in keeping heat in in winter and anticon will be good for both hot and cold but especially in keeping heat out in summer
if youre going through a large volume builder then its especially important you do all this research as youll likely get next to no advice from them.
have you gone through the design in detail to ensure minimal west facing windows, eaves where necessary etc?
the batts will play a bigger role in keeping heat in in winter and anticon will be good for both hot and cold but especially in keeping heat out in summer
if youre going through a large volume builder then its especially important you do all this research as youll likely get next to no advice from them.
have you gone through the design in detail to ensure minimal west facing windows, eaves where necessary etc?
+1 on this.
If you are going with a dark roof get anticon instead of the plain sarking. Also upgrade the roof insulation to the 4.
The wall insulation upgrade may or may not be necessary if you have appropriate eaves.
I can check out your design for you if you like?
Ditto all above, I mostly insulate against cold, at r8 to r20 level, without an air barrier wind blows straight through pink batts, r0
sarking ~1
Batts ~3
together : more than the sum of its parts
Edit, together is the important thing, the insulation and vapour barrier have to be close
Insulation in cold countries is determined to stop the wind, as much as a thermal barrier
the minimum standard is r8 batts sandwiched between 2 membranes in the walls, r12 and 2 membranes in the ceiling, r8 +2membranes underfloor,
:doh: sorry, not slab construction, that just has .3mm :/doh:
we use a 2 pack foam, from basf that they suggest is coming to Aus soon
absolutely wind tight, makes r21 like r40
most houses in sydney have dark tiled roofs
ʇı ƃuıop sı ǝslǝ ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ ?ʎɥʍ 'ǝƃpıɹq ǝɥʇ ɟɟo dɯnɾ oʇ dn pǝuıl llɐ
sarking ~1
Batts ~3
together : more than the sum of its parts
Edit, together is the important thing, the insulation and vapour barrier have to be close
Insulation in cold countries is determined to stop the wind, as much as a thermal barrier
the minimum standard is r8 batts sandwiched between 2 membranes in the walls, r12 and 2 membranes in the ceiling, r8 +2membranes underfloor,
:doh: sorry, not slab construction, that just has .3mm :/doh:
we use a 2 pack foam, from basf that they suggest is coming to Aus soon
absolutely wind tight, makes r21 like r40
most houses in sydney have dark tiled roofs
ʇı ƃuıop sı ǝslǝ ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ ?ʎɥʍ 'ǝƃpıɹq ǝɥʇ ɟɟo dɯnɾ oʇ dn pǝuıl llɐ
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most houses in sydney have dark tiled roofs
ʇı ƃuıop sı ǝslǝ ǝuoʎɹǝʌǝ ?ʎɥʍ 'ǝƃpıɹq ǝɥʇ ɟɟo dɯnɾ oʇ dn pǝuıl llɐ
I did not say 'dark tiled roofs'.. .I said 'tiled'. It is also personal preference.
How does this add value?
when someone quotes, it goes in a quote, you quoted me, now I quoted you
I had not quoted you before in this thread
I may have quoted you before, in another thread, or other threads, I don't know, I don't keep track.
when someone makes an observation,
most houses in Sydney have dark tiled roofs
it is an observation
- Not much thought required, look at the pictures, anybody can googlemap sydney and see dark tile roofs
- Not a particularly intelligent thing to do in Australia's climate, even in Sydney, it still gets hot, and cold
- fashion before function
the received response, not reasonable, brilliant, thoughtful, or relevant to the post replied to
color choice: coal
but definitely not light
If anyone asked a kinder kid what colour coal is
wonder what would they say . . . .. .. ... ...
function before fashion: how it works, should be more of a consideration than how it looks, that's my personal preference,
which I am permitted to express,
in my opinion Sydney people are inclined to blindly follow fashion, no matter how inappropriate,
thus: they would line up to jump of the bridge, if everyone else were doing it
something else I am permitted to express
fashion; pathetic thing to worry about in a house, all the mission brown and sap green seventies repaints, eewwww
Sydney: you's'd want to live there,
if you's couldn't live in Melbourne or Adelaide
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I think., the ones shooting, were a little gun happy ( and wrong link )
why bother insulating the ceiling to keep the heat out, if heat in the roof doesn't get in the house
Why are there wind catchers, and the equivalent of whirlybirds on houses dating back to settlement & in all the other hot places dating back 100s of years
why was our house so damn hot when I was growing up, till we insulated the roof, where it was even hotter
I honestly can't recall, it was so long ago, the message I took from it was whirlybirds were a con. this article touches on the sorts of issues covered:
http://sidthoo.com/2012/06/16/does-roof-colour-affect-the-energy-efficiency-of-my-house/
http://sidthoo.com/2012/06/16/does-roof-colour-affect-the-energy-efficiency-of-my-house/
I see whirlybirds on vehicles,
at 100km/hour two small ones of the dog box can create enough vacuum inside the box to pop the window into the box, out of its rubber, the dog gets a fright,
you have to open the vent in the back side too to let air in.
Cattle trucks, dog rides in the dog box, with water tank and drinker not a bad place for a dog to be, nice and cool.
I have felt the wind in the shower block, vertical wind, it has two whirlybirds, no other ceiling ventilation, no other cooling, the wind outside draws the air out
from experience whirlybirds do precisely what they promise in the advertising.
at 100km/hour two small ones of the dog box can create enough vacuum inside the box to pop the window into the box, out of its rubber, the dog gets a fright,
you have to open the vent in the back side too to let air in.
Cattle trucks, dog rides in the dog box, with water tank and drinker not a bad place for a dog to be, nice and cool.
I have felt the wind in the shower block, vertical wind, it has two whirlybirds, no other ceiling ventilation, no other cooling, the wind outside draws the air out
from experience whirlybirds do precisely what they promise in the advertising.
Just read this, missed it before, how terrible is the builder if it can't install a whirlybird
well there are obvious downsides. I actually have one in my house, no idea if it does anything... can you stop it in winter somehow to stop it extracting all the heat?
Or close the vent
Put a stick in it to stop it spinning!
pinkboy
I think that's it.... doesn't stop the gusts of wind blowing in tho
pretty sure there isn't one?
To my mind, the whirlybird should not be in contact with people zones there should be separation
In the cold area, NS positioning of thermal elements is important it goes
ceiling
membrane
insulation
membrane
coldspace
whirlybird
roof
the area you want to keep warm/cool is permanently separated from the cold zone
the whirlybird and eaves vents keeps condensation from forming in the cold zone
In the hot area NT it goes
ceiling
space
sarking
hotspace
whirlybird
roof
to keep the roofspace cool
I find when sarking is tight against the roof its less effective than when there is a space for chimney effect
this is daily summer of 45+
daily winter of 30+
there must be something to it
in each case, the membrane/sarking is an airtight barrier between people zones and hot or cold zones
sealed at eaves end, and continuous: to roof cap (hot areas); across the insulation (cold areas)
If it isnt continous, its wrong
if there isnt a space above it, its wrong
if the vents pierce it, its wrong
Its real easy to nail sarking to the top of the rafters, then put a roof on it, easy seldom means good
this is insulation in cold areas
airtight membrane, pink batts r8, airrtight menbrane on the outside (I didnt take a picture)
it costs notmuch more, reduces heating by 40%: bargain
(my ladylove)
I have learned a lot about insulation, ventilation, condensation in 12 years of living in Canada and NT
In the cold area, NS positioning of thermal elements is important it goes
ceiling
membrane
insulation
membrane
coldspace
whirlybird
roof
the area you want to keep warm/cool is permanently separated from the cold zone
the whirlybird and eaves vents keeps condensation from forming in the cold zone
In the hot area NT it goes
ceiling
space
sarking
hotspace
whirlybird
roof
to keep the roofspace cool
I find when sarking is tight against the roof its less effective than when there is a space for chimney effect
this is daily summer of 45+
daily winter of 30+
there must be something to it
in each case, the membrane/sarking is an airtight barrier between people zones and hot or cold zones
sealed at eaves end, and continuous: to roof cap (hot areas); across the insulation (cold areas)
If it isnt continous, its wrong
if there isnt a space above it, its wrong
if the vents pierce it, its wrong
Its real easy to nail sarking to the top of the rafters, then put a roof on it, easy seldom means good
this is insulation in cold areas
airtight membrane, pink batts r8, airrtight menbrane on the outside (I didnt take a picture)
it costs notmuch more, reduces heating by 40%: bargain
I have learned a lot about insulation, ventilation, condensation in 12 years of living in Canada and NT
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