self manage vs PM?
- Thread starter gooroo
- Start date
I decided to manage myself based on the following:
1. my IPs are with top agence now. I found the property manager was not acting in my best interest. It seems they are the owners.
2. they "select" tenants if they can. Actually they will try hard to ask you to accept anyone who put an application in ----- why, because without tenants they are not paid.
3. they should not never charge 1/2 week letting fee. I absolutely have no idea who is the stupid person who invented this term "letting fee". now it is broadly adopted.
4. You pay the 9.35% + all other charges --- equavalent to 15%-16% of gross rent. They are not doing much at all. Also you have to pay their time, phone, mails ----- everything.
5. If there is a problem, you have to pay them for the court attendance. Sometime it could be their problem.
7. I reckon when you do yourself and you have better control - who you want in your house - gut feeling.
1. my IPs are with top agence now. I found the property manager was not acting in my best interest. It seems they are the owners.
2. they "select" tenants if they can. Actually they will try hard to ask you to accept anyone who put an application in ----- why, because without tenants they are not paid.
3. they should not never charge 1/2 week letting fee. I absolutely have no idea who is the stupid person who invented this term "letting fee". now it is broadly adopted.
4. You pay the 9.35% + all other charges --- equavalent to 15%-16% of gross rent. They are not doing much at all. Also you have to pay their time, phone, mails ----- everything.
5. If there is a problem, you have to pay them for the court attendance. Sometime it could be their problem.
7. I reckon when you do yourself and you have better control - who you want in your house - gut feeling.
You could always go-it-alone, and outsource the rent collection/rent management aspect of it. I'm a little biased, but advantages include:
1. No chasing of rent collections/breach notices
2. Huge savings on the normal property management fee
3. Can still have rent disbursements weekly, just like a direct payment
4. Have full internet access for yourself and your tenant to view the tenancy
Of course, for other items such as 'finding tenants', 'tenancy tribunals', etc - you could always pay-as-you-go and only when required. You'll find it's still a largely hands-off approach, but you save a fortune compared to a full cost property manager.
1. No chasing of rent collections/breach notices
2. Huge savings on the normal property management fee
3. Can still have rent disbursements weekly, just like a direct payment
4. Have full internet access for yourself and your tenant to view the tenancy
Of course, for other items such as 'finding tenants', 'tenancy tribunals', etc - you could always pay-as-you-go and only when required. You'll find it's still a largely hands-off approach, but you save a fortune compared to a full cost property manager.
Depends on what you call "hassle". Once we spend a couple of hours signing them up, handing over keys (same suburb as we live) all I ever do is write out a receipt each fortnight or month.
For all the bad stories on these forums, we have equal numbers of "no issues" stories. We have had a couple of bad eggs over 30 years, but only ever had one insurance claim and, for me, it is easier than falling off a log.
I would not try to self manage long distance, but we don't buy long distance, so not an issue for me.
I reckon it must be a nightmare finding a good PM by the sounds of the stories on SS.
For all the bad stories on these forums, we have equal numbers of "no issues" stories. We have had a couple of bad eggs over 30 years, but only ever had one insurance claim and, for me, it is easier than falling off a log.
I would not try to self manage long distance, but we don't buy long distance, so not an issue for me.
I reckon it must be a nightmare finding a good PM by the sounds of the stories on SS.
I agree wholeheartedly with wylie's sentiments.
Once the governing Act is clearly understood, not a difficult task at all, and once you set systems in place to manage the tenancies, it can be a well paying non-job. Experience throughout the years in managing properties obviously becomes easier as one becomes more wily.
Of course boomtown, if one is referring to a single residential dwelling, yes indeed, the PM impost may only be half a tank of fuel per week. A trifling no doubt.
However, if you have designs to become a tad larger than one dwelling in your property endeavours, and eventually emulate for example the structures of handyandy or wylie herself, you may possibly discover that the systems and knowledge you put in place early on in your property acquisition phase may in fact pay handsome dividends.
Indeed, that half a tank of fuel you so willingly concede at present could possibly turn into a full road tanker or two every week. Perhaps then you may re-consider whether or not it was a worthwhile pursuit.
In any case, enjoy the journey.
Once the governing Act is clearly understood, not a difficult task at all, and once you set systems in place to manage the tenancies, it can be a well paying non-job. Experience throughout the years in managing properties obviously becomes easier as one becomes more wily.
Of course boomtown, if one is referring to a single residential dwelling, yes indeed, the PM impost may only be half a tank of fuel per week. A trifling no doubt.
However, if you have designs to become a tad larger than one dwelling in your property endeavours, and eventually emulate for example the structures of handyandy or wylie herself, you may possibly discover that the systems and knowledge you put in place early on in your property acquisition phase may in fact pay handsome dividends.
Indeed, that half a tank of fuel you so willingly concede at present could possibly turn into a full road tanker or two every week. Perhaps then you may re-consider whether or not it was a worthwhile pursuit.
In any case, enjoy the journey.
I have to say that I am nowhere near HandyAndy's level of IPs. I think he has said he has more than 20 (but I might be thinking of somebody else).
While I find it easy, we have only ever had maximum of four IPs to manage. My mum has more to manage, which she does with our help. She has a much more streamlined computer spreadsheet system that she uses. She prints things off for the accountant and gives him a disk too. I chuck everything in the "tax" file and at the end of the year I take one day to sort it, type it up and give it to the accountant.
My mother, having more IPs plus a considerable share portfolio, and now a family trust, is way more organised (and rightly so) and her mind is like a steel trap.
If I had 20 IPs to manage, I would sharpen up my accounting and be much more organised, but I would still manage them myself, if they were local.
If I ever get tired of self-managing, of course I would hand them to a PM. But by managing these myself I am saving at least $100 per week.
While I find it easy, we have only ever had maximum of four IPs to manage. My mum has more to manage, which she does with our help. She has a much more streamlined computer spreadsheet system that she uses. She prints things off for the accountant and gives him a disk too. I chuck everything in the "tax" file and at the end of the year I take one day to sort it, type it up and give it to the accountant.
My mother, having more IPs plus a considerable share portfolio, and now a family trust, is way more organised (and rightly so) and her mind is like a steel trap.
If I had 20 IPs to manage, I would sharpen up my accounting and be much more organised, but I would still manage them myself, if they were local.
If I ever get tired of self-managing, of course I would hand them to a PM. But by managing these myself I am saving at least $100 per week.
Hi, I am going to interview 3 applicants for 2 of my houses. It is interesting. How to find bad eggs given than I do not get access to the Database?
Thanks
Thanks
I have a flat attached to my home, so the rent gets slipped under the door! Great set-up!
However, I also have an IP about 700m from my home, that I prefer to let the PM's deal with. All of our interstate properties have PM's.
A Property Manager:
1. Keeps the relationship on a professional basis and isn't swayed by "sob stories."
2. Follows up on inspections, re-leasing issues.
3. Knows the Landlord/Tennant Laws like the back of their hands!
4. Knows how to deal with Tribunals if there is a problem.
5. Knows the local Plumber/ Electrician/etc.
I can see why Wylie might prefer to self-manage close to home, but even then, I prefer to maintain the relationship between tenant and landlord as one on paper, from a professional point of view.
Regards Jo
However, I also have an IP about 700m from my home, that I prefer to let the PM's deal with. All of our interstate properties have PM's.
A Property Manager:
1. Keeps the relationship on a professional basis and isn't swayed by "sob stories."
2. Follows up on inspections, re-leasing issues.
3. Knows the Landlord/Tennant Laws like the back of their hands!
4. Knows how to deal with Tribunals if there is a problem.
5. Knows the local Plumber/ Electrician/etc.
I can see why Wylie might prefer to self-manage close to home, but even then, I prefer to maintain the relationship between tenant and landlord as one on paper, from a professional point of view.
Regards Jo
I had two properties (on one block) which were initially managed by a PM, then by myself for several years, and are now back with the PM.
I found that, although when things ran well, it was fine. But when something broke down, I had to drop everything to attend to the property- and I was not always in a position to do so.
When there were rent rises I always had these pleading letters about how hard it was for them to survive.
I was (and still am) time poor- so when one lot of tenants gav e notice, I handed the properties to a PM again (a much better one than the previous).
I found that I had not kept abreast of the rents. I had been charging $250pw for the soon to be vacated property, and was going to ask $280. The PM suggested $320- and we got $350. So the money I was "saving" from the PM fees was false economy.
Another big advantage now is that the PM does know tradesman, and can find a good one quickly.
I found that, although when things ran well, it was fine. But when something broke down, I had to drop everything to attend to the property- and I was not always in a position to do so.
When there were rent rises I always had these pleading letters about how hard it was for them to survive.
I was (and still am) time poor- so when one lot of tenants gav e notice, I handed the properties to a PM again (a much better one than the previous).
I found that I had not kept abreast of the rents. I had been charging $250pw for the soon to be vacated property, and was going to ask $280. The PM suggested $320- and we got $350. So the money I was "saving" from the PM fees was false economy.
Another big advantage now is that the PM does know tradesman, and can find a good one quickly.
most PM's are useless
Out of all the PM's we have gone through, only 10% are reasonable. Most have made us feel like they crap and it seems like they work for the tenant not for the people paying their wage.
They fixate on dirt and grime, not broken and damaged.
We are currently renovating an average house in the outer burbs. Curtains have holes and nail polish on them, curtain rods have been wired together where they broke, fawcet on sink is dented and no longer swivels.
Other PM's are refunding bond and rent to tenants that broke lease and left, doesn't look like they have taken cost of releasing into account.
It currently doesn't feel like they are earning their percentage as we are getting really crap service and a lot of work. So we may as well manage them ourselves.
So if you find a good PM follow them, ditch the RE company and follow the PM.
Cheers
quoll
Out of all the PM's we have gone through, only 10% are reasonable. Most have made us feel like they crap and it seems like they work for the tenant not for the people paying their wage.
They fixate on dirt and grime, not broken and damaged.
We are currently renovating an average house in the outer burbs. Curtains have holes and nail polish on them, curtain rods have been wired together where they broke, fawcet on sink is dented and no longer swivels.
Other PM's are refunding bond and rent to tenants that broke lease and left, doesn't look like they have taken cost of releasing into account.
It currently doesn't feel like they are earning their percentage as we are getting really crap service and a lot of work. So we may as well manage them ourselves.
So if you find a good PM follow them, ditch the RE company and follow the PM.
Cheers
quoll
hi all
self comm as its easy and
pm resi as it alot more time.
they charge but its alot easier.
the comms are easy to self manage and there is not alot of the issues as with resi.
alot say resi is just not worth the issues.
but the equity is.
the pm is the issue not the management a good pm is worth the money a bad pm causes 5 times that in problems.
from giving free rent for 6 months and then leaves the agency with you holding no rent to no bond and the pm knocking off the tenant for free.
I have had more sniffers thru there nose then money thru tennants then I like to mention.
so for me first check your pm
get a friend to flog them some thing if they take it change pm.
thats scotch, beer, cigs even the chance for the grey stuff
because if they take it you aint getting your rent.
and the lady's with the 2k suits check your maintenance records.
I like the down to earth pm thats clean and gets the job done but you have to still keep check or your monies gone.
self comm as its easy and
pm resi as it alot more time.
they charge but its alot easier.
the comms are easy to self manage and there is not alot of the issues as with resi.
alot say resi is just not worth the issues.
but the equity is.
the pm is the issue not the management a good pm is worth the money a bad pm causes 5 times that in problems.
from giving free rent for 6 months and then leaves the agency with you holding no rent to no bond and the pm knocking off the tenant for free.
I have had more sniffers thru there nose then money thru tennants then I like to mention.
so for me first check your pm
get a friend to flog them some thing if they take it change pm.
thats scotch, beer, cigs even the chance for the grey stuff
because if they take it you aint getting your rent.
and the lady's with the 2k suits check your maintenance records.
I like the down to earth pm thats clean and gets the job done but you have to still keep check or your monies gone.
