Shameless Self Promotion

I am in this month's API Magazine. :)
And today i found out i have gotten the job that i went for so I get a nice fat pay increase. :)
Also today I got my first rent payment into my bank account :)

A property related question-My boyfriend has a PPOR. If he were to buy an IP (negatively geared) will this affect his child support that he pays to his ex-partner who shares 50% custody of children? I am guessing the child support agency would class the rent money as income even though it is going to pay the mortgage, plus he would have to cover the shortfall.

Does anyone have any experience with IPs and the child support agency...share your wisdom!
 
I am in this month's API Magazine. :)
And today i found out i have gotten the job that i went for so I get a nice fat pay increase. :)
Also today I got my first rent payment into my bank account :)
Good on you MM.

Been a big week, make sure you celebrate it over the weekend.

Not too sure re your question, so will leave that up to an expert to answer.
Might be best to ring the child support agency up and explain the situation to them.

Regards
Marty
 
A property related question-My boyfriend has a PPOR. If he were to buy an IP (negatively geared) will this affect his child support that he pays to his ex-partner who shares 50% custody of children? I am guessing the child support agency would class the rent money as income even though it is going to pay the mortgage, plus he would have to cover the shortfall.

Does anyone have any experience with IPs and the child support agency...share your wisdom!


My girl friend looked into it and you are right they look at the income and not the expenses - I do not know the situation if you purchased it in a trust tho, check with your accountant.

Celeste
 
A property related question-My boyfriend has a PPOR. If he were to buy an IP (negatively geared) will this affect his child support that he pays to his ex-partner who shares 50% custody of children? I am guessing the child support agency would class the rent money as income even though it is going to pay the mortgage, plus he would have to cover the shortfall.
From the CSA website- http://www.csa.gov.au/fact/2760.rtf
Calculating your estimate

When you are working out your estimate you need to include:
* taxable income;
* foreign employment income that is exempt from Australian tax;
* rental property losses; and
* Reportable fringe benefits amount.
I'm not sure if rental property losses are added to or subtracted from income.

But it seems to indicate that losses are subtracted.

But the estimated nett income must not vary too much from the actual.

And if the difference is going to be big, submit a new form.

The process sounds similar to having PAYG altered during the year instead of having a big refund at the end of the year.
 
Mishmash, it does. I had a argument to find that rental property loss was taken into as your taxiable income

:mad: How irritating. It appears that the CSA will try to screw you at every turn.
Can anyone suggest creative ways around this?

*Disclaimer-BF is not trying to shirk his financial responsibilities. He has 50% custody, yet he still has to pay his ex despite her being a qualified psych and CHOOSING not to work. It is bad enough he has to pay her at all, we want to buy an IP but don't want him to have to pay her even more.
 
:mad: How irritating. It appears that the CSA will try to screw you at every turn.
Can anyone suggest creative ways around this?

*Disclaimer-BF is not trying to shirk his financial responsibilities. He has 50% custody, yet he still has to pay his ex despite her being a qualified psych and CHOOSING not to work. It is bad enough he has to pay her at all, we want to buy an IP but don't want him to have to pay her even more.

I've read your disclaimer, but aren't these your boyfriends CHILDREN you're talking about? And the ex choosing not to work to raise them? And it's bad enough he has to pay her at all??
 
My goodness, do you know how much it costs to feed and educate kids these days?

I see so many ex-spouses (men and women), who threaten to go on the dole, or have given up good paying jobs and actually do go on the dole, rather than pay child support. Tis criminal, and doesn't do anything to contribute to the well-being of the children.

Parents too often forget, in these situations, that payment is not about the ex-spouse, tis all about the childeren they CHOSE to have.
 
My goodness, do you know how much it costs to feed and educate kids these days?

I see so many ex-spouses (men and women), who threaten to go on the dole, or have given up good paying jobs and actually do go on the dole, rather than pay child support. Tis criminal, and doesn't do anything to contribute to the well-being of the children.

Parents too often forget, in these situations, that payment is not about the ex-spouse, tis all about the childeren they CHOSE to have.

Thanks Sailor and JenD for your unhelpful comments on a situation you know nothing about! :) I just love your self righteous attitudes. Women will always defend the woman in these situations, because they automatically assume that the woman is the 'wronged' party.

Consider this-they share EQUAL custody of the 2 children. My partner works fulltime. In the property settlement when they split, 80% of the proceeds of the house sale went to her. My partner started again financially. She does not work, yet holds 3 degrees including her masters in psych. She CHOOSES not to work. She does not stay at home looking after the kids all day because they are in school and go to after school care. So if she isn't working and she isn't looking after the kids, I wonder what she is doing??? She certainly isn't spending my partner's money on the children, in fact by her own admission his money is paying for her big screen tv, weekends away with her partner, new car the list goes on. And the children say 'mummy doesn't buy us clothes/toys/take us anywhere because she says daddy doesn't give her any money' :mad:

In fact Sailor, his ex partner gave up a well paying job just 2 weeks into it because (and I quote) 'There is no way in hell I am going to give up my child support'. She DELIBERATELY gave up a job in which the children would have ultimately been better off, because she would have to give up receiving child support as well as the many government benefits she receives. Anyway, I won't go into her numerous suicide attempts, sleeping around whilst still with my partner, revolving door of same sex partners and many times where she has put the children at risk.

My partner wants to buy an IP to GET AHEAD, so that in future years he will be financially stable and will be able to provide for his children. Unfortunately, due to the ridiculous legislation the CSA is governed by, buying an IP will increase the payments to his ex. It is unfair and I was asking for people who may have been in similar situations whether they had gotten around this.

Redwing-Yes, he did once find a helpful person at the CSA. Unfortunately that case officer has now committed suicide!! :eek:

So if anyone has anything HELPFUL to contribute, please feel free :)
 
HI Mish Mash,

I understand where you are coming from as my friendr is in the same position as you are.

Her husband pays maintenance for 1 child. The amount that he pays out is based on his salary. The higher the salary the more he pays.


The ex- wife got the house, so my friend's husband had to start again from scratch.

The ex- wife is now using the child maintenance payments to pay off the mortgage as the money he gives for the child is in excess of how much the child really needs.
After the child's expenses are covered , there is so much left over that she is paying off the mortgage and going on holidays.

In the meantime, the ex has a boyfriend living in this house who pays nothing towards the mortgage.

It is a painful situation financially for my friend and her husband, but there is nothing they can do.

kindest regards
marina
 
Hi MishMash,

I would speak to a good accountant about the possibility of purchasing the properties in a trust.

Cheers,
Jen
 
When I first started investing family benefits for two children were cancelled, even though I was running negative cashflow on IP's. Minus is actually turned into a plus and added to taxable income in their calculations. Stinks, I know.

I got around it by not relying on family benefits at all, and made sure my IP's were at least cashflow positive. With the income and the growth, I now don't need or miss any government assistance.
 
Hi MishMash

IMHO I believe an appropriate structure for your partner in this case may be a HDT with a Corporate Trustee.

If you let the good people here know what state you're in, I'm sure you'll get directed to the best advice on this question, e.g. Kevin Munro $ Associates in NSW.

Good luck.

Cheers, Paul
 
i know what you mean mish - we have 3 of hubby's kids half share (plus one of our own). it was very painful to watch her zipping around in a new car, and going on overseas hols with boyfriend (who she left hubby for) only to see him subsisting on bilo fish fingers and potatos.

she got the house, car and all furniture. he was paying a large maintenance bill (despite half care) "plus" she was charging him for half all the kids expenses in her home (clothing, mothers day presents, birthday presents - all stuff he was also paying for in his own house, so doubling up). needless to say i put him straight and advised he only paid maintenance "or" half expenses. she was furious because, according to her, the maintenance was her money and the kids were extra.

by this stage she was working - but child support was calculated on income 2 years previous, so it was calculated on her having no income.

what happened is that hubby's job was a little insecure - he suggested to her that if he were to loose his job then she would have to pay him maintenance. she didn't like that at all, so the opportunity was taken to work out an expenses program where he paid for half of "agreed upon" costs - all schooling expenses, school excursions, medical/dental, one extracirrular activity per week per child, music lessons, tutoring etc. this could not be added to this list without discussion and agreement by both parties.

each side keeps record of what they pay for, then at the end of the financial year a reconciliation is done, with money then paid either way to square the books.

this worked out a treat - we saved $100/wk that we could then spend on the kids ourselves and there was no resentment on either side because it was seen to be fair, and the money was spent on the kids - not lining her pocket.

the jist of the story - is there some way your partner could work out something similar with his ex? it takes a lot of stress out of the "money" issue, and the resentment because you know the money is going to the children.
 
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:) Sounds like you have a great system there, Lizzie. Unfortunately in our situation, things are beyond amiable relations and my partner is currently trying to get full custody because we have greater concerns for the children that go beyond financial support.

Lofty-I am in NSW. I know absolutely nothing about trusts, anyone care to educate me or point me in the direction of some good info?
 
MishMash

From my understanding of trusts, they will not help you in this situation:

1. Assets not already in a trust would have to be transferred into a trust at great financial cost
2. A Trust is not protected from Family Law.

Full custody is a whole new issue. That would require advice far beyond what this forum could offer- and would negate any contributions made so far.

I've seen a friend trying to take custody of his grandchildren from his daughter. It turned out to be more expensive than he could afford. But he is the de facto carer of his grandchildren.

Legal costs for going down this path could far outweigh any financial costs you've mentioned so far.
 
I am in NSW. I know absolutely nothing about trusts, anyone care to educate me or point me in the direction of some good info?
I've taken this from my accountants site.

http://www.chan-naylor.com.au/

What is the Property Investor Trust™ Deed?

The Property Investor Trust™ Deed is a hybrid trust deed modified with additional clauses to provide extra benefits to property investors.

What many people aren't aware of is that deeds are written differently by different solicitors. Not all trusts are the same. Even the same type of trust such as a Unit, Hybrid or Discretionary trust is written differently by different solicitors. These trusts have standard deeds that were not written specifically for property and what accountants and solicitors have done is to try and adapt it to property.

Whenever one tries to make something fit into something that it was not specifically built for, it invariably has some side effects. For example: Unit trusts, when used for property investing, create a capital gains tax issue where the cost base (value of the property at purchase) is reduced through depreciation, the net effect is you will pay more capital gains tax when you sell. Discretionary trusts are rarely recommended for properties because they not only lose the land tax threshold in NSW but they quarantine the losses inside the trust which means negative gearing benefits cannot be claimed by the individual. Hence, in each case there is a negative when these trusts are used for property. However, our Property Investors Trust™ Deed doesn't have these negatives. It has been tailor made for property and has none of the side effects that are associated with the other deeds. In fact, we do not use the Property Investor Trust™ Deed for other things such as businesses, because it was not built for it. We would use a discretionary, hybrid or unit trust for such a purpose as that is what they were designed for - businesses, shares, etc ... but not property.

In short, being specialist in this game we came up with the ideal structure that would provide the most flexibility, taking into account land tax for all states, capital gains tax and income tax. This is combined with asset protection and estate planning. The result is one of the most flexible trust structures for Australian property investors.

Remember this however, that actually establishing a trust is only 20% of the game. Most of the work is done at tax time so having an accountant who knows how the trust works is a vital part to using structures.

For quick reference and summary here are the benefits of the Property Investor Trust™ Deed:

Asset Protection.
Estate Planning (allows you to pass on property to your children with no CGT and stamp duty and protects them from their divorce).
Allows the negative gearing to be claimed by the individual.
Allows the Capital Gain to be distributed to the lower taxpayer.
Provides a land tax threshold. (Except VIC & NSW)
Allows you to minimize your tax position as the property changes from negative to positive gearing or vice versa and or if your circumstance changes (i.e. wife goes back to work or decides to stop working, without triggering CGT and stamp duty).
It is the only Trust specifically setup for property where all other Trusts were not setup specifically for property and each one has some shortcomings when adapted to property.
Allows anonymity with your assets held by a corporation as trustee.
 
Good on you for having a go MM.

I'm just thinking aloud here and really have no idea of the legal issues involved so don't take this as advice, just another angle.

If your partner had a company that ran a business, all expenses would be taken into consideration I think.

So, if the companies business was IPs, I'd guess that then the expenses would again be taken into consideration.

It's just an idea, so again, check with an accountant, cos I have no idea. :rolleyes:
 
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