Shares VS Property

[Melbournian]

If it were that easy, there would be no workers left in any field, trade or profession.

well not asking you to trade everyday. Of course research and analysis does come to play as there's no free lunch to making money.
say somethnig bads happens in europe - how would it affect the markets here? doesn't take a genius to work it out. you can trade on gold prices, coffee prices and other commodities too.

it's just like buying property - u can use the lazyman's method and buy and hold and wait like majority of investors do or you can buy property and manufacturer growth by renovation.

many people just don't bother - and trade standard shares etc that's the difference btw making the extra step to making more gains with some level of risk rather than speculating on what if scenarios.

 

[china]

well not asking you to trade everyday. Of course research and analysis does come to play as there's no free lunch to making money.
say somethnig bads happens in europe - how would it affect the markets here? doesn't take a genius to work it out. you can trade on gold prices, coffee prices and other commodities too.

it's just like buying property - u can use the lazyman's method and buy and hold and wait like majority of investors do or you can buy property and manufacturer growth by renovation.

many people just don't bother - and trade standard shares etc that's the difference btw making the extra step to making more gains with some level of risk rather than speculating on what if scenarios.

Whether you trade every day or once in a while, it is still a complex matter to make money. It is even more difficult to trade in gold and commodities as most people would have no idea what happens with those prices. It is very easy to lose megabucks.

Buying property and manufacturing growth by renovation also requires a very specific skill set which is not easy.

 

[Melbournian]

Whether you trade every day or once in a while, it is still a complex matter to make money. It is even more difficult to trade in gold and commodities as most people would have no idea what happens with those prices. It is very easy to lose megabucks.

Buying property and manufacturing growth by renovation also requires a very specific skill set which is not easy.

a simple example, september 11, asian financial crisis, GFC, japan tsunami - what happen historically in those events - gold prices goes up. i'm not monitoring the gold index price daily - it is just an illustration what to buy etc when certain trigger events occur

How hard is it to hire a carpenter to change floorboards, get an electrian to change lighting and a basic plaster and paint? it's not technical as in to programa clock and a calculator in java in 15 minutes or to extract a tooth from someone's mouth.

if everything was so easy in life - everyone would be rocking up in the latest 7 series BMWs and eating $500 meals.

 

[china]

a simple example, september 11, asian financial crisis, GFC, japan tsunami - what happen historically in those events - gold prices goes up. i'm not monitoring the gold index price daily - it is just an illustration what to buy etc when certain trigger events occur

How hard is it to hire a carpenter to change floorboards, get an electrian to change lighting and a basic plaster and paint? it's not technical as in to programa clock and a calculator in java in 15 minutes or to extract a tooth from someone's mouth.

if everything was so easy in life - everyone would be rocking up in the latest 7 series BMWs and eating $500 meals.

Thats correct, it is not easy to make big bucks. Predicting the impact of world events on share and commodity prices is fraught with danger. Hiring tradies to do a good job is quite challenging. That is why most people are not in 7 series bmws nor eating 500 dollar meals.

 

[Melbournian]

whinging abt it and saying it's too hard is not going to get you that merc though. you keep saying you want to get to a certain lifestyle, first class flights and mercs and bmws - but if you don't take the risk how would you know?

honestly, in 3 of those scenarios i described i made a trade in gold - it cost me 15K and i made 200-300% of that in a day. renovation isn't that hard - i have bought and sold couple of places done up and made very healthy net profits in 3-6 months.

i'm not sure what your background is whether you're a new migrant or you are profesionally trained in some field but use those skillsets to make some changes.

i think you're just over analyzing the various scenarios and maybe you have lost a bit in property or shares and your confidence has dropped.

 

[china]

Only if you want it to be. If you dont want it to be, you use protection.

Even with protection, it is still quite an adrenaline rush to be leveraging ten times your capital into shares.

 

[Melbournian]

Even with protection, it is still quite an adrenaline rush to be leveraging ten times your capital into shares.

adrenaline rush is like jumping out of a plane.
having 25K of capital with a stop loss of say 5K isn't that much of a super risk by leveraging 10 times

 

[china]

whinging abt it and saying it's too hard is not going to get you that merc though. you keep saying you want to get to a certain lifestyle, first class flights and mercs and bmws - but if you don't take the risk how would you know?

honestly, in 3 of those scenarios i described i made a trade in gold - it cost me 15K and i made 200-300% of that in a day. renovation isn't that hard - i have bought and sold couple of places done up and made very healthy net profits in 3-6 months.

i'm not sure what your background is whether you're a new migrant or you are profesionally trained in some field but use those skillsets to make some changes.

i think you're just over analyzing the various scenarios and maybe you have lost a bit in property or shares and your confidence has dropped.

I am somewhat risk averse. Having lost six figure sums in the last GFC has made me very tentative about share trading. Leading up to 2007, I used to think it was easy. However, what Buffet said was true: when the tide falls, we can see who has been swimming naked. Now, I think that if I had just kept the money in the bank around 2007, I would be in a better position.

 

[Melbournian]

well - i think it is not normally how good someone is at making gains
but how many times the person can stand up or recover after getting hit.

i suppose in time you will find your way to make a comeback

i lost money too before in trading but mainly coz i was greedy and ignored fundamental and technical analysis trends.

 

[china]

well - i think it is not normally how good someone is at making gains
but how many times the person can stand up or recover after getting hit.

i suppose in time you will find your way to make a comeback

i lost money too before in trading but mainly coz i was greedy and ignored fundamental and technical analysis trends.

That was the great speech from rocky five.

 

[matto_]

But if we did not have the GFC losses would we have the same learnings and world view we now have?

10% shares
Rest prop.

Looking to balance portfolio at next stage of our investing career.

 

[Jake Milne]

Recently I've changed my portfolio to a balanced/defensive one for now.

Previously I was in the top 10 ASX listings but now I'm heavily weighted in Fixed Interest Investments (probably looking at changing this now as sovereign bonds continue to yield less) and some good managed funds such as AusBil.

My financial planner has also helped me with some investments in equity funds and direct growth stocks in smaller ASX companies and corporate US stocks.

As per my overall portfolio I'm 80%-20% or "too heavy on property" as my planner would say haha.

 

[Nth Brisbanite]

I'm about 10% shares and 90% property. I'm geared into shares but have never gone over 45% LVR even when the sharemarket dropped substantially 5 years ago. Before the GFC my gearing was something like 30%. All my recent purchases in shares have been in banks which on my tax rate, are grossing about 9%. Bank shares are safe, high yielding stocks. I know that I pay interest on my margin loan but overall I'm still ahead because of the great returns that I get.

Moderators, shouldn't this thread be taken out of Where to Buy and put somewhere else?

 

[redwing]

There's also the show Property Versus Shares

And the Book

Property Versus Shares

by Peter Koulizos (“The Property Professor”) and Zac Zacharia (“The Wealth Wizard”)

 

[Cammclellan]

Property will always outperformed shares due to the power of leveraging OPM.

Banks class shares as nearly twice the risk to property. LVR property 90% shares 50%.

If you have $50k and invest in shares you enter the market with $100k. Property leveraged means you enter the market with $450k.

Give shares the advantage 10% per year and property 8% per year growth. Over 20 years here is the value of each.

Shares $610k
Property $2.7m

Rememeber financial planners are simply brokers for managed funds. (I hold an AFSL so I understand the planning industry).

I sent an email out to my team titled 'office challenge' the email asked if anyone could tell me of any person that had become wealthy because they listened to thier financial planner.
Answers were basically 'good luck with that'.

 

[redwing]

LVR property 90% shares 50%.

.

You sure about that Cam?

 

[Hoffy]

Property will always outperformed shares due to the power of leveraging OPM.

Banks class shares as nearly twice the risk to property. LVR property 90% shares 50%.

If you have $50k and invest in shares you enter the market with $100k. Property leveraged means you enter the market with $450k.

Give shares the advantage 10% per year and property 8% per year growth. Over 20 years here is the value of each.

Shares $610k
Property $2.7m

Rememeber financial planners are simply brokers for managed funds. (I hold an AFSL so I understand the planning industry)'.

Wow!!! So much wrong here. I hope this isn't what you "teach" people (i presume/hope you dont provide advice).

You can leverage up equities as much as you want, but even with a straight margin loan from the bank you can get 90% (80 + 10 buffer) on blue chips.

30% of planners (and growing rapidly) now predominantly recommend direct equities for equity exposures and disregard managed funds except for international (even here ETFs are gaining popularity) or specialist skill areas (Investment Trends)

You clearly have an agenda to push, or you genuinely don't understand equities, leverage and the financial planning industry. Plenty of bad planners out there no doubt but they are at least equally matched in number and effect as bad property spruikers.

By the way, do you really believe that 90% of the worlds millionaires made their first million from property?

 

[DavidMc]

By the way, do you really believe that 90% of the worlds millionaires made their first million from property?

I don't know the stats but I would say that property is still the most common (and best) path to wealth for Aussie's who do not come from wealthy backgrounds.

It's really not that hard to save up a deposit in 2-3 years, buy an IP, a few more years of savings + growth and repeat. 2-3 cycles over 15-30 years, 10+ properties later, sell half to reduce debt and you can retire very comfortably.

 

[Deltaberry]

I did a simulation the other day.

If I had held every share I ever bought, I'd be down around $700k by now (compared to being up nearly half a mil, mainly from investing in my younger days when I was in my early 20s).

Of course, the analysis was flawed because I never would've been in a position to hold every share I ever bought, since I was only able to buy the second one by selling the first.

 

[oracle]

I did a simulation the other day.

If I had held every share I ever bought, I'd be down around $700k by now (compared to being up nearly half a mil, mainly from investing in my younger days when I was in my early 20s).
.

So are you saying Shares are bad investment compared to Property?

Cheers,
Oracle.