Should single men be able to sit next to unaccompanied kids on planes ?

[turk]

I would think this stereotyping that you think is widespread, would stem from the statistics, not from the policies themselves (that stem from the statistics).

I think most rational people know that the vast majority of men are not paedophiles. The vast majority also place the blame on the perpetrators not the policy makers for heading down this path.

Many, especially parents would put child protection practices over 'adult' feelings everytime, and these same parents are often the ones working with and protecting children.

I think this is where we might differ in our ideas... oh, and in Marks case, in the the statistics.

Weg

I'm talking about personal experiences not statistics, twice now my daughter has asked a friend for a playdate, the mother has enquired whether my wife would be at home.

Other times it has been commented on when a female teacher has given a student a hug that a male teacher would be taking a risk in doing the same.

Have you tried to quantify the actual level of risk seating a male passenger as opposed to a female passenger with an unaccompanied child.

 

[shuggy]

I can understand the airline's policy, but also think the situation outlined by the original poster could have been handled better.

Do you mean the OP (bump) or the flight steward who told him to move seats?

I do mentoring for disadvantaged kids. I've had snide comments about I'm only doing it to get close to them so I can take advantage of them.

That sucks.
I've recently volunteered as an English teacher in Bali spending more than 2mths teaching kids aged 9-16yo but got the feeling people think I'm up to no good so I've decided not to give anymore of my time helping unprivileged kids from poor backgrounds.

Instead i'll try to provide financial support helping the bright ones who want to continue with their secondary and tertiary education. To put a kid through high school costs about $250 a year; $2,000 a year for uni depending on the faculty. I'd really like to go back and teach again but it's not worth it so no-one wins in this situation.




If anyone is interested in volunteering as an English teacher in Bali send me a message and i'll give you more info. It's very rewarding and the kids are great (in a non paedophile way).

 

[Macca]

Great. You on the sex offender list yet? Can't talk to kids ya know...

Basically, I don't unless an adult is there with them.

When I go for my regular walk I quite often see kids riding bikes along the shared pathway. The adults usually say hello to each other, the women say hello to the kids and the men studiously avoid saying or looking at anyone unless they are spoken to first.

Rather sad commentary on society really isn't it

In reality, as I have experienced a suspect activity with my own kids when they were young and I now have grand kids, I would be the first to line up to neuter a male pedophile

 

[BayView]

How does that show protection of the adult?????

If there was some interfering loony in row 78B (like the car driver who dobbed in Macca), looking through the gap the seats, and saw the guy bend down and touch one of the kids say; on the lower back to make sure they didn't fall off the seat as they were squirming around (as kids do), but didn't have a totally clear view, the loony might assume he was fondling their behind and maybe make a complaint.

This is what protecting the adult is for with the policy.

Sounds ridiculous, I know, but...

 

[weg]

Weg

I'm talking about personal experiences not statistics, twice now my daughter has asked a friend for a playdate, the mother has enquired whether my wife would be at home.

Other times it has been commented on when a female teacher has given a student a hug that a male teacher would be taking a risk in doing the same.

Have you tried to quantify the actual level of risk seating a male passenger as opposed to a female passenger with an unaccompanied child.

Just as you're very trusting of people, others are very distrusting and hypervigilant. These hypervigilant types are probably paranoid about a lot of other things too, but they aren't the majority (I've lost count of how many sleepovers my kids have had and how many have slept here).

I think most people are somewhere in between - vigilant in a relaxed way - by having their feelers out and listening for alarm bells.

Actually the last time I was concerned about a parent, it was a woman. Child had befriended a new kid at the school a couple of years ago. I had met the mum only once and the children visited one time each, and then invited mine for a weekend away. He was almost 12.

I not only felt uncomfortable because I did not know the parents, but felt it was inappropriate to ask this of us so soon. I would not think of doing the same thing, even though I knew that it didn't necessarily make them bad. But it was still my alarm bell, telling me we had different parenting styles. Paranoid, perhaps.

Anyway, turns out she has a significant drinking problem (and a bit of a personality problem according to some parents from the other school), and others don't feel comfortable with her supervising children either. There were no issues with the husband - he appears a nice man.

 

[turk]

Just as you're very trusting of people, .

Weg

I don't know where you got the idea that I'm very trusting of people, I'm not.

Have you quantified the level of risk yet?

I cannot understand why you would tolerate the risk of a female paedofile.

I would have thought that with your level of concern you would want the children to be seated away from all adults.

 

[weg]

Weg

I don't know where you got the idea that I'm very trusting of people, I'm not.

Have you quantified the level of risk yet?

I cannot understand why you would tolerate the risk of a female paedofile.

I would have thought that with your level of concern you would want the children to be seated away from all adults.

I like to calculate risk by statistics, and obviously by my own and the experiences of those close to me - as you have.

So if I had an 9yo flying on their own, yes i would prefer a woman to be sitting next to them.

It's sad I know, but I think there are a lot of weird people out there - many nicely spoken and in suits too .

Like I said that does NOT mean I think most men are deviant.

It appears like the many comments made regarding men (that you mention), number the amount of 'sexual incidences' mentioned here by others.

I can see where you are coming from, but obviously the concern for children in our society comes before mens feelings. I think that sit comfortably with a lot of men too.

 

[Hoffy]

So if I had an 9yo flying on their own, yes i would prefer a woman to be sitting next to them.

This is because of your statistics?

There are statistics that show certain races are proportionally far more likely to commit crimes. Would you think it appropriate to discriminate against them?

You are happy to on the basis of sex, so I assume you would be happy to on race, or religion.

All equally irrational, and you wonder why the bloke earlier doesn't want to approach a lost child in a park.

 

[turk]

I like to calculate risk by statistics, and obviously by my own and the experiences of those close to me - as you have.

So if I had an 9yo flying on their own, yes i would prefer a woman to be sitting next to them.

It's sad I know, but I think there are a lot of weird people out there - many nicely spoken and in suits too .

Like I said that does NOT mean I think most men are deviant.

It appears like the many comments made regarding men (that you mention), number the amount of 'sexual incidences' mentioned here by others.

I can see where you are coming from, but obviously the concern for children in our society comes before mens feelings. I think that sit comfortably with a lot of men too.

Sadly Aboriginals have a much higher crime rate including crimes against women and paedophilia than the general population, do you judge them also with such a broad brush?

 

[pennyk]

i twice experienced inappropriate "touching" as a teenager on the train travelling to uni. i'm not sure it is was the same person, cause both incidents were similar, but separated by some time. i think in both cases hte train was fairly full, so only middle seats. the persn next to me (on aisle) began to rub me on the leg. first time I was so shocked, i think i stood up and lost my seat to get away from him. next time, I put my bag on my lap, and pushed their hand away.. took them a while, but just kept pushing them and finally they stood up and lost their seat...better outcome.
i wasnt scarred for life, but it was a challenging time and I dont think i often sat in the centre seat again! but its very is similar to the one being imagined by virgin blue....
this is most likely done by a stranger in a way that wont be questioned or investigated. there is some level of "is he/ she really doing that or am I just imagining it?".
i realise thats only one type of abuse, and probably quite a small one. but it seems to be what Virgin are trying to prevent... i think there;d be too much risk if being identified

 

[weg]

Sadly Aboriginals have a much higher crime rate including crimes against women and paedophilia than the general population, do you judge them also with such a broad brush?

You actually make a good point about the Aboriginals.

It's the behaviours of some of them that tend to make many look bad, but I don't think there's much chance of a child getting assaulted by a drunk Aboriginal on an airplane, like there would at some other places - it's the alcohol fueled violence that makes for the higher crime rate.

A sober Aboriginal male on a plane would be no different to a sober non Aboriginal I would think.

Anyway, I keep my child away from their drinking places as he has no rights over where they drink, but he certainly does in other places.

Nor do I think women or men who commonly commit general abuse, would generally abuse a child they don't know on a plane, as it's mostly directed towards people they know or due to alcohol or drug induced states.

Like I said many have had multiple sexual abuses by strangers, as children, in places where there were no witnesses.

And it just happens to be mostly men that carry out that behaviour.

So why not put some of the blame on these men, for having helped create this prediciment?

 

[Aaron_C]

Sadly Aboriginals have a much higher crime rate including crimes against women and paedophilia than the general population, do you judge them also with such a broad brush?

Yeah let's just lock them up, they'll do no good anyway

 

[willair]

I think they should and will not fly Virgin again until they review this policy (or have a great deal i cant refuse). Sad that society has come to this and any single male is assumed to be a paedo. Leave the bathroom door open if youre a male and bathe your kids and dont take photos at child sporting events or you could be labelled something unsavoury.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel...ves-virgin-to-think-again-20120810-23y7q.html

Why would you worry about it,just change seats,and who knows they may even put you up the front..

 

[Aaron_C]

Why would you worry about it,just change seats,and who knows they may even put you up the front..

Yes let's just accept it, it's no big deal right?...that's always the beginning of the end for targeted groups of people. Glad to see that it worked out well for the Jews in Germany; no big deal having the Star of David attached to every Jew's arm, I guess they could use it as part of their fashion. Or perhaps the Chinese in Malaysia; no big deal having the Constitution entrench discrimination against you where you have to, inter alia, give 30% of your business to an ethnic Malay. Or the Christians in Iran; let's let the Islamic regime just oppress us day by day, no problemo who cares it's no big deal.

 

[turk]

You actually make a good point about the Aboriginals.

It's the behavious of some of them that tends to make many look bad, but I don't think there's much chance of a child getting assaulted by a drunk Aboriginal on an airplane, like there would at some other places - it's the alcohol fueled violence that makes for the higher crime rate.

I keep my child away from those places as he has no rights over where they drink, but he certainly does in other places.

Nor do I think women or men who commonly commit general abuse, would generally abuse a child they don't know on a plane, as it's mostly directed towards people they know or due to alcohol or drug induced states.

Like I said many have had multiple sexual abuses by strangers, as children, in places where there where no witnesses.

And it just happens to be men that then to carry out that behaviour.
So why not put some of the blame on these men, for having helped create this prediciment?

No Weg it's men and women, just probably men moreso, so I'll blame the perpetrator regardless of sex.

Now that you have marginalised men and Aboriginals what do you feel about
groups of migrants that come from wartorn situations and also figure in above average crime statistics?

By the way have you quantified the risk of assault and the risk difference between a male and a female being the perpetrator on a flight yet?

 

[bump]

Why would you worry about it,just change seats,and who knows they may even put you up the front..

 

[willair]

Yes let's just accept it, it's no big deal right?...that's always the beginning of the end for targeted groups of people. Glad to see that it worked out well for the Jews in Germany; no big deal having the Star of David attached to every Jew's arm, I guess they could use it as part of their fashion. Or perhaps the Chinese in Malaysia; no big deal having the Constitution entrench discrimination against you where you have to, inter alia, give 30% of your business to an ethnic Malay. Or the Christians in Iran; let's let the Islamic regime just oppress us day by day, no problemo who cares it's no big deal.

Lets just look at it this way,we live in the best free country in the world,my father came from Germany after ww2,and was in one of the camps but he was not Jewish,he was RC they came for everyone that spoke against,them
i just don't think it could happen too that level again as it was in Germany
1932 -1945,they had a lot of time to install fear,a lot different these days
unless someone complains about the noise from a Church on a Sunday Morning then you would have to start too worry..

 

[weg]

No Weg it's men and women, just probably men moreso, so I'll blame the perpetrator regardless of sex.

Now that you have marginalised men and Aboriginals what do you feel about
groups of migrants that come from wartorn situations and also figure in above average crime statistics?

By the way have you quantified the risk of assault and the risk difference between a male and a female being the perpetrator on a flight yet?

That was meant to be 'mostly' - omitted in error.

No doubt some women do commit sexual abuse but in the vast majority of cases it's by men.

Show me credible stats that show otherwise and I might change my mind - but based on experience even that would be hard. Sorry .

Start another thread about migrants and Aboriginals and i'll gladly contribute there.

 

[Aaron_C]

i just don't think it could happen too that level again as it was in Germany
1932 -1945,they had a lot of time to install fear,a lot different these days
unless someone complains about the noise from a Church on a Sunday Morning then you would have to start too worry..

Totalitarism is not just about physical violence or making people vanish. People here take their democratic rights for granted and are, I think, too willing to give them up for a 'good cause' - see the children must be protected at all costs red herring. Of course everything can be justified....but I do not accept such a ridiculous justification that has no rational limit to its stupidity.

 

[bump]

Lets just look at it this way,we live in the best free country in the world,my father came from Germany after ww2,and was in one of the camps but he was not Jewish,he was RC they came for everyone that spoke against,them
i just don't think it could happen too that level again as it was in Germany
1932 -1945,they had a lot of time to install fear,a lot different these days
unless someone complains about the noise from a Church on a Sunday Morning then you would have to start too worry..

On Fridays we used to wear an onion on our belt, which was the style at the time. You see, back in those days, rich men would ride around in Zeppelins, dropping coins on people, and one day I seen J. D. Rockefeller flying by. So I run out of the house with a big washtub and, where are you going? Anyway, about my washtub. I just used it that morning to wash my turkey, which in those days was known as a walking bird. We'd always have walking bird on Thanksgiving with all the trimmings: cranberries, injun eyes, and yams stuffed with gunpowder. Then we'd all watch football, which in those days was called baseball. When I was young, toys were built to last. Look at this junk! It breaks the first time you take it out of the box. And look at these toy soldiers. They'll break the second I step on 'em. Ah! Stupid! Toy! Soldiers! Break, you stupid! Ehh, why didn't you get something useful, like storm windows, or a nice pipe organ? I'm thirsty. Ew, what smells like mustard? There's sure a lot of ugly people in your neighborhood. Oh! Look at that one. Ow, my glaucoma just got worse. Hello? I can't unbuckle my seat belt. Hello?

Oh yeah, what I meant to say was that you've missed the point.

Good work Aaron, I can't compose as eloquently as yourself.