Hi all, I have 1 residential property in my SMSF and am using a large multi national accountancy firm to do my SMSF return and audits etc. They are very good in all aspects e.g easy to get hold of and answer emails and messages and questions quickly. My only concern is what it is costing considering what I think is now a pretty straight forward investment. It is costing me nearly $4k per year in costs. $2,800 for the SMSF ATO return, $700 audit fee and $240 for secretarial fees. As I said I am very happy with what they do as I am happy for them to do it all as I am very busy with job and big family! Just starting to get concerned with the costs. Are they too expensive V what others are paying considering just 1 IP in the SMSF. Many thanks in advance for any feedback.
SMSF account costs
- Thread starter Adelaideian
- Start date
Hi Adelaideian,
SMSF have changed, its a competitive industry now, with more players to give the industry a bit a shake up. Yes, you are paying overs at $3750, which is most likely due to your relationship with the accountant. SMSFs are a long term structure and although admin costs are deductible, the costs add up! Back in the early 2000's, I used to charge $1000 for the audit alone.
In posting this, I disclose I am a SMSF Administrator and we charge $1,180 all inclusive of accounts preparation, audit and tax return preparation. No surprises, no hidden costs and charges.
Shop around and you will get a better deal. Also, everything can be done electronically i.e submit docs by email/ portal and support by phone/ email if you are not in the same city/ location.
Hope that helps.
Cheers, Ivan
My Accountant who set up the SMSF/Bare trust for me, advised of the following annual cost:
fees will be around $1,000 plus GST for accounting and taxation and $500 plus GST for auditing. ATO Levy and ASIC Fee to be paid separately.
so it's $1650 GST inclusive plus ATO levy and ASIC Fee.
How much is the ATO levy and ASIC Fee?
Thinking the ASIC would be $235 annually.
fees will be around $1,000 plus GST for accounting and taxation and $500 plus GST for auditing. ATO Levy and ASIC Fee to be paid separately.
so it's $1650 GST inclusive plus ATO levy and ASIC Fee.
How much is the ATO levy and ASIC Fee?
Thinking the ASIC would be $235 annually.
Hi Retire Rich,
ASIC fees for SMSF Corporate Trustee is $44 and Bare Trustee Company is $289 or so. This is payable annually and Set up fee for each company is $444.
For ATO Levy, refer to
https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/smsf-supervisory-levy---2013-to-2016-financial-years/
Amazing that this has almost doubled in the last 5 years.....ATO smell the cash.
Cheers, Ivan
Hi, the ATO fee and Asic fee are on top of the fees I pay as per my post!!
You will be able to half the accounting and audit fees without any trouble.
For $3,500 in admin fees for a SMSF, I would expect it to be a big fund with some issues that needed to be sorted.
For $3,500 in admin fees for a SMSF, I would expect it to be a big fund with some issues that needed to be sorted.
This is an example of poor (unqualified?) guidance that distorts views on SMSF costs. Firstly, $236 is the annual fee for most companies and yes you got the sole purpose price right at $44. For someone who claims to setup smsf property arrangements I am astounded by the lack of knowledge. Establishing a Company does NOT cost $444. Not ever, not once, nada, zip, nil, no. Oh and who is doing the ABN application etc.... And it assumes its all DIY. I dont do things for free....And I suspect you either. These can take min 30-60mins +. Having worked in company formation I have seen so many mistakes from accountants - Imagine how bad client prepared Co orders would be ??
$444 is only the ASIC fee component. You have to fill in a form and take it to ASIC and even then you have stuffed it up. You probably would incorporate the company in NSW. You definately cant setup a sole purpose smsf trustee co that way. A company usually has a constitution and a lender will require one. $444 doesnt provide a constitution and you cant just find one floating around and photocopy it. And if you do its just stupid. Especially a SMSF trustee company one. FAIL.Penalties apply.
Then there are the required registers and other documents - Consents etc. And I question if the constitution for that company and the custodian trustee co and the bare trust are all compliant with the smsf trust deed. That is one of the problem issues cheapies find when Gadens look at their docs when doing a LRBF. Its why a $500 legal cost becomes $2,000 + and requires costly amendment.
That is why shelf company providers charge more than $444. They include all the documents as well as the govt fee. And specialised changes to companies (eg voting rights, share classes, etc will cost more when lawyers draft changes). And when its combined with advice on such simple things like name, directors, shareholders, benefically owned etc , PPOB and registsred office and then ABN assistance it explains why $1,000-$1500++ isnt a bad price. Thats up to three times your estimate.
The ASIC fee hasnt doubled. The higher fees represent a bring-forward of levy that used to be around 2 years in arrears. They have slightly increased it then reduced it and also bought two years fwd over a two year period. Thank Wayne Swan. ATO doesnt set the price. Treasury do.
And all this from someone who claims to do SMSF admin ??? Maybe its a sign of doing things fast for a low price ? My tip to anyone would be find a adviser who takes time and does things for an agreed price. One who can address financial and smsf issues rather than seperate advisers. Spending a tad more that the cheapest price would be clever.
$236pa if its paid on time !!! Pay it one day late and its $308. Pay it after 31day and its $607.
Paul, no its not 'unqualified' guidance and your post is offensive. We are chartered accountants with a heap of experience. Just because you disagree with a view, please don't come to such a conclusion. I'll let the readers decipher below.
Another attack on my post. Many educated SMSF Trustees would like to set up the company themselves such as lawyers. SIS fees have doubled was not referring to ASIC fees.
You can set up a company with all docs including constitution/ minutes and consents for $494 with Ecompanies, I have mentioned this in another post. Simple print it out add sign here pages. An educated trustee/ member can do this for him/herself if they like.
The cost of the company is $444 (ASIC fee) -as mentioned above- what is your issue? plus $50 for the docs by the provider, cleardocs is marginally higher. What is misleading? its the truth. I have covered this in another post.
ABN/ TFN application takes 10 minutes - maximum perhaps 20 minutes with 4 members. As an FYI, We charge $990 for the full set up of a SMSF (all are corporate trustee), everyone has a right to charge what they want, including accountants, financial planners. We stand by our price.
My post detailed the ACTUAL cost of ASIC fees, so take off the rose coloured glasses. My post did not detail Trust Deeds however, we provide Trust Deeds with legal liability coverage is part of our set up cost.
Re your attack on our brand, we specialise, we can set up a company and apply for ABN and TFN in 30 mins
What you consider a good or bad price is your opinion, we have a fee structure and stand by it and you can have yours.
I did not mention bare trust docs and your reference to 'cheapies' is comical. We have all the banks refer us Bare Trust only business for good reason - we get the job done correctly, our deeds come with legal liability coverage from a leading Barrister. We have a strong relationship with all the lawyers including Gadens, after all we have completed 100s of bare trusts. Many in this industry will back up our reputation.
Again, the question was actual costs, I replied, you divert - again.
Sorry to the other readers who have to read this.
All the best,
Ivan
Thanks for your confirmation that the cost to establish a company is not $444
Your mention of legal liability is a good issue. Its really a stretch by any deed provider / lawyer to suggest that there is any more legal protection than any other deeds settled by other lawyers. All legal work is covered by a PI scheme. I have always understood that to have any such rights I must suffer a loss first. Then make a PI claim and it to be settled. Hopefully the insurer doesnt defend the claim. Its the insurers right after all, not the legal practitioner. Good to hear its passed by Gadens - The gatekeepers. Likely no issues.
Your mention of legal liability is a good issue. Its really a stretch by any deed provider / lawyer to suggest that there is any more legal protection than any other deeds settled by other lawyers. All legal work is covered by a PI scheme. I have always understood that to have any such rights I must suffer a loss first. Then make a PI claim and it to be settled. Hopefully the insurer doesnt defend the claim. Its the insurers right after all, not the legal practitioner. Good to hear its passed by Gadens - The gatekeepers. Likely no issues.
Oh, you should definitely shop around! I mean, you're happy with the service they provide, they do a good job and answer your queries promptly. By your own admission, they clearly know what they are doing. So naturally, the only option is for you to look elsewhere.
The question to ask yourself is: Are you happy with the service? If so, then why look elsewhere? Sure, you might get a lower annual fee somewhere else, but at what cost? Are you prepared to wear the consequences to save a couple of bucks?
Thanks for the feedback. I sent an email off to one of the partners of the firm with what virtually I posted here. They called me and will review the costs, cheers.
