Somewhat confused

[Decimator4000]

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-new...n-80-times-worse/story-e6frfkp9-1226661209335

I agree with the majority of people on the comments board to this article.

What are Australian's supposed to do?

Are we supposed to intervene? But then we are labelled racists; a destroyer of culture; bigots etc.

If we don't intervene we are looked upon as bystanders; like the US in the Syrian conflict.

'Damned if we do, damned if we don't.'

What is the answer? Is there an answer? Or does it go into the too hard basket?

 

[Aaron_C]

The problem is cultural relativism.

 

[cimbom]

This is not an isolated issue, it is a symptom of a much broader problem. I'm not sure how one can be surprised that people living in essentially third world conditions are going to exhibit much of the same social problems that are common in these societies.

I think self-determination would go a long way to creating a much better situation. And no, I don't mean in the tokenistic way it currently occurs for show - largely to appease "white guilt". The Scottish in the UK have it, the Basques in Spain have it, the Turkish people in Cyprus have it and Palestinians and Kurdish people, although currently "occupied", still have it to a very large degree. I'm not sure on what logical basis we can deny the same to our indigenous peoples. I guess their only "crime" is not being much more militant - it certainly worked for the above-mentioned groups.

Feel free to call me a commie/pinko/leftist hippy/etc if you disagree and run out of actual arguments to make

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

I think education is the key. We have to dramatically improve the education being delivered to Aboriginal children (hell, any children living in impoverished circumstances).

I maintain that the problem is poverty, not race. And the long term solution to poverty is education.

 

[Decimator4000]

This is not an isolated issue, it is a symptom of a much broader problem. I'm not sure how one can be surprised that people living in essentially third world conditions are going to exhibit much of the same social problems that are common in these societies.

I think self-determination would go a long way to creating a much better situation. And no, I don't mean in the tokenistic way it currently occurs for show - largely to appease "white guilt". The Scottish in the UK have it, the Basques in Spain have it, the Turkish people in Cyprus have it and Palestinians and Kurdish people, although currently "occupied", still have it to a very large degree. I'm not sure on what logical basis we can deny the same to our indigenous peoples. I guess their only "crime" is not being much more militant - it certainly worked for the above-mentioned groups.

Feel free to call me a commie/pinko/leftist hippy/etc if you disagree and run out of actual arguments to make

Well said and I totally agree. But how do aboriginals gain self-determination if the majority don't want it. Is it what VB stated that more education is needed. I believe this would help the next generation, but not the current 2-3 generations living in these communities.

Would Australia be encroaching upon Aboriginal culture if we were to force education into these communities. I'm no whiz at Aboriginal culture but aren't the Aboriginal people about living off the land and the land will provide for them? Thus, wouldn't we be forcing a westernised education system on a culture that doesn't want it?

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

I'm no whiz at Aboriginal culture but aren't the Aboriginal people about living off the land and the land will provide for them? Thus, wouldn't we be forcing a westernised education system on a culture that doesn't want it?

They're stuck at the margin of western society, and that won't change unless we help them join mainstream society. Also, are we really prepared to allow 'tribal law' to persist in situations where this is directly contradictory to Australian law?

There are no easy answers here.

 

[weg]

When mum and dad and much of the community are pissed as farts for much of the time poverty, violence and neglect will surely be the end result.

I reckon you start there first... compulsory sobering up (dry zones), then educate and slowly build on.

You can't educate the drunk, hurt, sick, malnourished and grossly neglected.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

When mum and dad and much of the community are pissed as farts for much of the time poverty, violence and neglect will surely be the end result.

I reckon you start there first... compulsory sobering up (dry zones), then educate and slowly build on.

You can't educate, drunk, hurt, sick, malnourished and the grossly neglected.

You can if you take them away.

 

[topcropper]

This is not an isolated issue, it is a symptom of a much broader problem. I'm not sure how one can be surprised that people living in essentially third world conditions are going to exhibit much of the same social problems that are common in these societies.

There is almost no comparison whatsoever with third world countries. The people in third world countries live in poverty because they are poor. The aboriginals we are talking about here are not short of money and if anything it's too much money that is causing the alcoholism, which causes them to live in poverty.

Welfare dependency has been a disaster for aboriginals, but I can't think of a solution without it being extremely racist.


See ya's.

 

[weg]

You can if you take them away.

Do you mean the alcohol that causes these problems or the victims of the alcohol abuse??

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

Do you mean the alcohol that causes these problems or the victims of the alcohol abuse??

First the alcohol. Then, if that doesn't work, the victims.

As I said, there are no easy or obvious solutions. Any solution is going to involve compromises and sorrow.

 

[weg]

First the alcohol. Then, if that doesn't work, the victims.

As I said, there are no easy or obvious solutions. Any solution is going to involve compromises and sorrow.

Agree.

I think a start would be to get all the Bess Price types on board (there are a few) , and give them more power.

The 'academic' city Aboriginals have silenced them for far too long.

 

[VYBerlinaV8]

Agree.

I think a start would be to get all the Bess Price types on board (there are a few) , and give them more power.

The 'academic' city Aboriginals have silenced them for far too long.

Spot on.

Just because this is a difficult and heartbreaking problem does not absolve us of responsibility for fixing it.

 

[Aaron_C]

The 'academic' city Aboriginals have silenced them for far too long.

Careful, you might be sued under the Racial Discrimination Act for making such suggestions.

 

[weg]

Careful, you might be sued under the Racial Discrimination Act for making such suggestions.

And that is part of the wider problem.

 

[lizzie]

It is indeed a tricky problem

Reading a long article yesterday regarding the same problem. Dry zones are no solution because the adults choose to drink and hence drag their children outside of these dry zones into the wilderness ... while the men get sozzled and the women gamble away their pension money.

Education is again not so easy. Apparently the local school principal is doing everything he can to get the kids to school - including providing breakfast and lunch (because they don't get fed at home) and a bus that picks them up and drops them off at their door - and even a safe place to stay the night if "home" is not safe due to the threat of violence/rape - even then he only gets around 60% attendance.

The kids that are bought up with rules and love want to run wild like their petrol sniffing counterparts - and the wild kids want somewhere safe and secure to live.

Their was a young boy (aged 8) who said he didn't care where he went - with black/white/orange/yellow - as long as it was safe and he was loved. Very sad.

Some of the fault stands with the NT government who will only place aboriginal kids removed, or abandoned, with immediate relatives (who are usually just as bad) or another aboriginal extended family in the area. This means the kids never get the chance to "escape" the cycle.

I agree that it is a tragedy - but unless, as a nation, we grow some and forget about "race" but instead concentrate on children's "rights" to a safe haven then we will never see the end of this perpetual cycle.

 

[Fifth]

The cycle of tokenism from one side and blame from the other will continue.

Children being abused in the Northern Territory? None of our business, we have interfered and culturally blundered quite enough.

A new public park is opening in a FHB estate in outer Melbourne? Let's give it an Aboriginal name to honour our indigenous inhabitants and have some didgeridoo players at the inauguration ceremony!

I've noticed many white guilt suffering Australians don't even feel comfortable using nouns such as Aborigine, Aboriginal, Indigenous, black fella, etc., so you can go a whole discussion about Aboriginals without actually specifying who you're talking about.

The problem is that all the nouns commonly used to denote Aboriginals as a collective (as opposed to individual tribes) have a certain colonial flavour that makes white guilt sufferers blush.

How the hell are we supposed to move forward in any way when so many don't even feel comfortable referring to Aboriginals as a collective and the real issues are avoided like the plague?

 

[Fifth]

Careful, you might be sued under the Racial Discrimination Act for making such suggestions.

Bolt was found guilty for publishing factually incorrect information, not for giving an opinion. Having and sharing an opinion is fine. Shoddy journalism is not.

 

[Aaron_C]

Bolt was found guilty for publishing factually incorrect information, not for giving an opinion. Having and sharing an opinion is fine. Shoddy journalism is not.

No, given that being 'offended' is criteria for seeking recourse under the Act, an opinion is definitely punishable if it is deemed so. Good thing Abbott has pledged to repeal such nonsense.

 

[woohoo]

how would australia feel if some other country comes in and tell us that we shouldn't have done this or that, or that we must do this or that?

After you say sorry to the aborigines, Pay compensation to the lost generation?