South East Asia

[syahrr01]

Does anyone have any experience/stories investing in the ASEAN region they can share? There has been strong growth in the region in recent years. Particularly Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam. I'm reviving my interest in the region. Yield is pretty weak but short/medium term CG looks appealing.

I'm familiar with a couple of cities, and I hold a citizenship in one country. Last I checked a few years ago, ANZ was willing to lend in AUD against a property in selected foreign countries.

 

[Deltaberry]

Aren't you borrowing at high interest rates then?

 

[Terry_w]

i haveexperience in thailand. i would say dont buy anything here if u think it will be an investment.

how will u get finance. how will u acess equity? will there be capital growth? can u speak the language and read legal documents? evne if u can u willbe expected to pay more than locals.

i also have a client who bout a unit in indonesia and it ended up in someone elses name. he has been trying to get it back for years and even has a supreme court order but still cant get it back.

 

[DEC]

How do you make a small fortune in a foreign country?







Start of with a large one

 

[truong]

I think I know Vietnam pretty well. Don't buy there if you want to invest. Do buy if you want to speculate and have fail-safe connections.

Land disappropriation going on on a massive scale and resold at astronomical profits... don't know whether you want to be involved in that.

i also have a client who bout a unit in indonesia and it ended up in someone elses name. he has been trying to get it back for years and even has a supreme court order but still cant get it back.

... Happens all the time in Vietnam. Heart breaking stuff.

 

[Terry_w]

The rule of law doesn't exist in third world countries

 

[JWR]

Also - my Indian friend told me that in India the police control most things - one person can buy the land and build a house on it only to find out someone else now owns the land and the house on it!

So caveat emptor!

 

[Wandering]

Do buy if you want to have fail-safe connections.

Sorry for the silly question, what does this mean? What connections of benefit?

 

[long88]

any indonesian here ?

i have 3 house, bought off the plan (sold one, make about 9k). still holding the other 3 and waiting for the right buyer to come.

There is no cash flow or anything like that, just pure speculation, and all based on trust. the money changing bit is done a bit later after the initial deal (using skype).

 

[Melbournian]

whereabouts in indonesia? u must have a really trustable guy doing your deals there for you.

 

[syahrr01]

i have 3 house, bought off the plan (sold one, make about 9k). still holding the other 3 and waiting for the right buyer to come.

How did you finance the deal if I may ask?

Price growth in various suburbs in Jakarta doesn't seem to be to be weakening. Lots of speculative plays by the locals developing gated townhouses.

 

[truong]

Sorry for the silly question, what does this mean? What connections of benefit?

Wandering, you’re misquoting me. What I said:

"Don't buy there if you want to invest. Do buy if you want to speculate and have fail-safe connections."

Currently the Vietnamese economy’s direction is anybody’s guess. Looks like the time for CG has passed. Still lots of profit to be made with speculative deals in connivance with officialdom on urban redevelopment projects and forced land grab, but this is highly questionable on an ethical point of view. For these to work, your connections need to be fail-safe, i.e. must be knowledgeable, not capable of betrayal and willing to protect you when s**t happens.

If you think you can invest in Vietnam in the normal way as you would in Oz – i.e. sign a contract that is legally valid in all circumstances, buy land that is owned by a true person, deal with lawyers/agents/middlemen/officials that are not corrupt, get a mortgage that’s secure, get tenants that can be checked, have the property managed by someone trusted, be paid with money that can be readily transferred and be protected by the law when problems arise – then you’re dreaming.

As a result most foreigners who buy in Vietnam do so through a local person who, they think, can navigate the system better. But then they find out their title has been registered in someone else’s name, their cash has disappeared and they have nowhere to turn.

There are plenty of good people in Vietnam but the system is vicious.

 

[Melbournian]

seems like this is common practice in SE asia like indonesia where many foreigners who buy land or villas in bali find out that their money has disappeared and can't navigate the indonesian legal system adequately without paying off someone in the 1st place.

Safer SE asia countries are like singapore and malaysia however the upside in CG in singapore is minimal in both countries atm and seems very dependant on government than economic factors.

 

[SamSiam]

Asia...ya wake up every morning knowing you're alive....and you thank Buddha for it.

I have bought 3 blocks of land here, built a house on the first one bought for circa $150k and sold it for circa $600k over a 2 year period.

Another block we bought for circa $90k and have it up for sale after developing it for circa $198k.

But, the old story of right time and right place is more true than savvy investment for the last one...bought block for circa $142k and while we are keeping this one to build our home on, neighbouring land is for sale for circa equivalent of $860k and has actually sold for these amounts in the area, albeit a little less last year.

Stories abound of deception, corruption, fraud and scams...it is not for the weak hearted.

A story last year of a retired gent, worth quite a bit, had 9 house he built or renovated over the years and rented them out, lived off the income of this and other income from home country....over a period of ??? weeks.....he had them all stolen from him and transferred to corrupt coppers, government officials and such. The police, the land officers, the lawyers all playing their parts to deceive and accept. The gent in question has had his life threatened if he returns. He moves house every few weeks now and is taking them all to court...but it will take years and in the meantime, his homes are lived in by others. He may never get them back.

 

[long88]

just friend that get me to buy it, and i just follow blindly...


jakarta is harder to get into, as there is a lot of player, and lots of people with lots of money..... (no need bank finance).

whereabouts in indonesia? u must have a really trustable guy doing your deals there for you.

 

[truong]

A horror story…

A guy I know, the son of an Australian soldier who served in Vietnam, flew there to visit the area where his dad used to serve during the war. Somehow he met a nice Vietnamese girl, fell in love and married her.

As soon as she got to join him in Oz, her demands started. First it was her dad who needed a new motorbike for work, her brother needed money to go to uni, her sick grandma who needed monthly transfers to pay for her medication etc… He happily helped every time, so much so that one day she told him of a luxury townhouse in a gated community going cheaply. What a great investment and we can use it when holidaying there, she told him. He agreed it was a great idea, so off she flew to organise the purchase there.

From then on she became more and more demanding, even threatening of leaving him if he did not comply. At the end she got so nasty that he had to get a divorce, losing considerable assets at the same time. When trying to sell the Saigon property, he found out it was in her dad’s name and that the price he paid had been grossly inflated. So having lost in love, he lost most of his fortune too.

His ex has now gone back to Vietnam. He reckons she could be a professional con woman and it’s likely he was not her first (or last) victim.

Safer SE asia countries are like singapore and malaysia.

Yep. Malaysia is quite OK. I bought an IP in KL. Value went great for a few years then dropped like a bomb around the time of the GFC. We went a whole year without a tenant! But prices have come back since then and the rental market seems to have picked up too.

 

[Terry_w]

i've heard so many horror stories in thailand too. like the aussie guy who retired there marrying a local girl and buying a house and mercedes benz. he went back to australia to retrieve his superannuation and came back to thailand to his house only to find his keys wouldn,t work. it turns out his wife sold the property and car qnd skipped off.

 

[china]

A horror story…

A guy I know, the son of an Australian soldier who served in Vietnam, flew there to visit the area where his dad used to serve during the war. Somehow he met a nice Vietnamese girl, fell in love and married her.

As soon as she got to join him in Oz, her demands started. First it was her dad who needed a new motorbike for work, her brother needed money to go to uni, her sick grandma who needed monthly transfers to pay for her medication etc… He happily helped every time, so much so that one day she told him of a luxury townhouse in a gated community going cheaply. What a great investment and we can use it when holidaying there, she told him. He agreed it was a great idea, so off she flew to organise the purchase there.

From then on she became more and more demanding, even threatening of leaving him if he did not comply. At the end she got so nasty that he had to get a divorce, losing considerable assets at the same time. When trying to sell the Saigon property, he found out it was in her dad’s name and that the price he paid had been grossly inflated. So having lost in love, he lost most of his fortune too.

His ex has now gone back to Vietnam. He reckons she could be a professional con woman and it’s likely he was not her first (or last) victim.



Yep. Malaysia is quite OK. I bought an IP in KL. Value went great for a few years then dropped like a bomb around the time of the GFC. We went a whole year without a tenant! But prices have come back since then and the rental market seems to have picked up too.

I guess the nice Vietnamese girl was not so nice after all.

However, this same scenario could happen in Australia with a nice Aussie girl.

 

[SamSiam]

I guess the nice Vietnamese girl was not so nice after all.

However, this same scenario could happen in Australia with a nice Aussie girl.

Not to the ridiculous extreme as it does here....there is basically no come back in court here like you have in Oz.

 

[SamSiam]

i've heard so many horror stories in thailand too. like the aussie guy who retired there marrying a local girl and buying a house and mercedes benz. he went back to australia to retrieve his superannuation and came back to thailand to his house only to find his keys wouldn,t work. it turns out his wife sold the property and car qnd skipped off.

Or the guy whose wife had her new thai boyfriend kill the husband and feed the parts to the tigers in the National Park.

Or the guy that sold and built a large condo complex...then did not transfer the titles to all the condos...instead went to the bank and borrowed money on the whole building for a few million dollars.