South East Asia

Vietnam’s economy is close to bursting. Not a very good time to buy real estate there.

From the New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/business/global/23iht-vietnam23.html?pagewanted=all

In Vietnam, Growing Fears of an Economic Meltdown
In Vietnam’s major cities, a once-booming property market has come crashing down. Hundreds of abandoned construction sites are the most obvious signs of a sickly economy.

A senior Vietnamese Communist Party official, speaking in the ornate drawing room of a French colonial building, compared the country’s economic problems to the market crash 15 years ago that flattened many economies in Asia. “I can say this is the same as the crisis in Thailand in 1997,” said Hua Ngoc Thuan, the vice chairman of the People’s Committee of Ho Chi Minh City, the city’s top executive body. “Property investors pushed the prices so high. They bought for speculation — not for use.”

Investors are skeptical of the government’s economic management and question the reliability of statistics. The country’s central bank says borrowers have stopped paying back 1 out of every 10 loans in the banking system, but Fitch Ratings said the percentage of bad loans might be much higher.

If the 1997 crisis was often blamed on “crony capitalism,” Vietnam’s problems could be described as crony capitalism with a communist twist. State-owned companies are stacked with friends and allies of the Communist Party hierarchy. “The state is being manipulated by people within the state to make money,” said Jonathan Pincus, the dean of the Fulbright Economics Teaching Program in Vietnam. “Getting the Communist Party out of the management of these companies, that’s what is required,” he said. “I don’t see that on the table.”

(...) Like property bubbles in other parts of the world, investors in Vietnam took advantage of free-flowing credit to construct buildings with the hopes of flipping them for a profit. One key difference is that some of the largest property speculators in Vietnam are state-owned corporations with top connections in the Communist Party and access to cheap money. Those companies are now grappling with unsustainable debt levels, or in the case of Vinashin and Vinalines, two large government conglomerates, flirting with insolvency.

(...) There is so much excess supply of office space in Ho Chi Minh City that rents in the most desirable neighborhoods are half the level of three years ago, said Nguyen Duy Lam, the director of Pacific Real, a construction and real estate company. In the hopes of drawing more foreign buyers, officials in Ho Chi Minh City have submitted a formal proposal to the central government to open up the property market to overseas Vietnamese, according to Mr. Thuan, the Communist Party official.

For now, though, real estate agents like Mr. Lam report that activity is freezing up. “Everyone wants to sell, but they can’t, even if they lower the price,” Mr. Lam said in an interview on the roof of a hotel in Ho Chi Minh City. “There are no customers.”
 
Anyone had thoughts on Burma? I've never been but hope to head over next year to check the place out!

I went to Burma about 15 years ago. It was like going back in time 40 years. Amazing place and it will be the next boom I think. But for investing you will need to be very careful because it is so under developed.
 
any indonesian here ?

i have 3 house, bought off the plan (sold one, make about 9k). still holding the other 3 and waiting for the right buyer to come.

There is no cash flow or anything like that, just pure speculation, and all based on trust. the money changing bit is done a bit later after the initial deal (using skype).

You must be an Indonesian native to be able to buy land in Indonesia. Even if your family have been in Indonesia for many generations, you would not be able to buy land legally. You only have the right to build (and I think it's 99 years lease)? Lots of non-native pretend to be native to overcome the situation. Lots of corruption. The corruption in Indonesia is horrendous, it's not under table transaction. They do it openly. I would rather invest in NZ or USA or buy lotto. At least if you spend $50K on lotto, you would win something....(how many numbers can you buy with $50K?).
 
I agree. Investing in Indonesia can be very dangerous. One of my friends had his apartment stolen and he has gone to the supreme court and obtained an order to get the property back, but he still cannot make it happen. Corruption and bribes at every step along the way. The slowness at which the government moves, and people in general, is amazing.
 
So in conclusion:

Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia: Dangerous, highly volatile?
Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong: Governed by British law system, safer investments but high costs of entry makes CG low?

Heh, back to square one...
 
So in conclusion:

Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Indonesia: Dangerous, highly volatile?
Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong: Governed by British law system, safer investments but high costs of entry makes CG low?

Heh, back to square one...

Singapore is a pretty safe bet. Even gina rinehart is investing there as well as many other aussies. And property prices there are pretty stable even on low end and high end.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...-property-record/story-fnay3vxj-1226440574070

Malaysia at the moment is off limits - elections are up and nobody knows who is gonna win.
 
I agree. Investing in Indonesia can be very dangerous. One of my friends had his apartment stolen and he has gone to the supreme court and obtained an order to get the property back, but he still cannot make it happen. Corruption and bribes at every step along the way. The slowness at which the government moves, and people in general, is amazing.

If you're willing to cough up some cash - anything in indonesia is possible. they had a guy in jail pay his way to get an overseas flight to watch a tennis match and then check back in. You need some inside intel to make things happen there. Australian rules etc really does not apply.
 
Indonesia is actually a very rich country with abundance of natural resources. If you look at the map, it has 17,000 islands. Richer than the neighbours such as Singapore. Don't get offended, Singapore is only a little island but it has an excellent government. The government makes the difference.

The ex British colonies (Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei) have better government and low corruption.
 
Indonesia is actually a very rich country with abundance of natural resources. If you look at the map, it has 17,000 islands. Richer than the neighbours such as Singapore. Don't get offended, Singapore is only a little island but it has an excellent government. The government makes the difference.

The ex British colonies (Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei) have better government and low corruption.

Indeed.. I'm from Indonesia, in fact still have house in Jakarta.
You have to native indonesia/ indonesian citizen to be able to purchase property.

You can married local, but when bad things happens such as divorce.. just give away your property.. and move on..
 
Indonesia is actually a very rich country with abundance of natural resources. If you look at the map, it has 17,000 islands. Richer than the neighbours such as Singapore. Don't get offended, Singapore is only a little island but it has an excellent government. The government makes the difference.

The ex British colonies (Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei) have better government and low corruption.

Off topic, but chain of islands that constitutes Indonesia makes it much harder to govern. Sometimes, I think an abundance of natural resources is a curse. Looks at the likes of South Korea and Japan (barely anything there and very low agricultural land) vs the African continent and Middle East.
 
Indonesia is actually a very rich country with abundance of natural resources. If you look at the map, it has 17,000 islands. Richer than the neighbours such as Singapore. Don't get offended, Singapore is only a little island but it has an excellent government. The government makes the difference.

The ex British colonies (Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei) have better government and low corruption.

yeah but indonesia has very bad governance. nearly anything or anyone can be bought off. pollution is also pretty bad and the gap between the upper class and the poor is very big.
 
You must be an Indonesian native to be able to buy land in Indonesia. Even if your family have been in Indonesia for many generations, you would not be able to buy land legally. You only have the right to build (and I think it's 99 years lease)? Lots of non-native pretend to be native to overcome the situation. Lots of corruption. The corruption in Indonesia is horrendous, it's not under table transaction. They do it openly. I would rather invest in NZ or USA or buy lotto. At least if you spend $50K on lotto, you would win something....(how many numbers can you buy with $50K?).

i was an indo before.. now become australian..

an update on what happen now...

3 of the house, unable to flog off to any other speculator.. now it is on the stage of building, if anyone from indo, you will be familiar with this term (ruko). it is basically a house that you can do business on ground level, and can live on the second and third floor.

basically now the projection is when the construction finishes, it will fetch about 850 M rupiah, with the outlay of 580 M rupiah. no loan or whatsoever, just straight vendor finance, with 17 times installment.
 
i'm looking to rent a ruko in pondok indah or kelapa gading helping a friend expand their business to indonesia.

i think they are pretty safe bets for rentals if you are the right area but if you're looking to buy and sell that is pretty risky.
 
i've seen ruko in kelapa gading asking for 10 M (indonesia M), or 1 Mil aud just 1 straight ruko (4 floor).. now that is a bubble... but how high will the bubble go.. no one knows..

and if you need help i got friends that can help you do reno.. etc..



i'm looking to rent a ruko in pondok indah or kelapa gading helping a friend expand their business to indonesia.

i think they are pretty safe bets for rentals if you are the right area but if you're looking to buy and sell that is pretty risky.
 
i know couple of company that is doing gold mining in java, pcp is one of it.

happy or not.. i dont know.. and i guess that they have to deal with any problem that comes along..



Go ask any Australian mining company how they feel about their Indonesian investments. You won't get many happy endings. B
 
Singapore is a pretty safe bet. Even gina rinehart is investing there as well as many other aussies. And property prices there are pretty stable even on low end and high end.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...-property-record/story-fnay3vxj-1226440574070

Malaysia at the moment is off limits - elections are up and nobody knows who is gonna win.

Gina bought a luxury condo or penthouse there. I'm sure she bought it as a getaway location. I doubt she bought it for investment purposes.
 
i've seen ruko in kelapa gading asking for 10 M (indonesia M), or 1 Mil aud just 1 straight ruko (4 floor).. now that is a bubble... but how high will the bubble go.. no one knows..

and if you need help i got friends that can help you do reno.. etc..

i am only looking for rentals for a friend and they're pretty much loaded.
thanks long88 - i can speak and write indonesian and have done business before over there.
 
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