Tenant made me laugh

[Pom]

Ziggy, If you read back through some of Kathryn's other posts you will realise her and hubby are excellent and empathetic landlords. As MP said give some people and inch and they will take a heap more. I am pretty sure (as is Kathryn) that these tenants feel everything else is their first priority and the "mean rich landlord" should be last in the queue!!

Kathryn did the right thing but is obviously stunned (as most of us are) that her tenants see things differently.

I guess that is where the misunderstanding lies - myself and ziggy are fairly new to this forum so don't know individuals yet. We have clearly judged from the sole perspective of that single post which didn't put Kathryn across in a very good light.

Just remember there are also guests who come to the site who don't know your past and judge in the moment! You are only as good as your last post!

 

[redsquash]

Received this email today from one of our tenants.

"..... our son broke his bed and we had to buy him a new one and now that the cheque has been put in we won't have money to 1.get diapers,2.get groceries,3. gas to get the kids to the babysitters. 4. power bill, and last but not least money to pay the babysitter.......



very unhappy tenents:"

THATS one damn expensive bed if all those other consequences follow

 

[Pom]

You're right Pom. I should have added more detail.
This was my reply to her.It would have explained more.

"We never received any request.
If we had of, we would have replied.
We have 4 children, if you must know.
Your liability to us fell on the first of the month, and it is your responsibility to ensure we are notified and agree if need to make any alteration to your legal obligation.
Your quoted mail doesn't include any reply from us, as your 7 prior delay requests have.
I find your letter offensive, as we have always when notified, accommodated your requests.We are not responsibility for losses in mail, not sent thru our server."

She has not replied, nor do I expect her to.

This was the message she had attached to her email, that she supposedly sent.

"this is (tenant's name) from appt 4 on (tenant address)... i was wondering if you would be able to hold the rent untill the 15th of may ....we had to buy our youngest son a bed and i don't think we have enough to cover the rent ... thanks

You are absolved from any alleged wrongdoing! Apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[kathryn d]

thanks Pom.

(they must have 2 kids now...certainly not any more than that)

 

[lizzie]

I'm a landlord myself - but if I couldn't afford to pay my mortgage due to an occasional late rent payment (particularly if they consulted me first as in this scenario) then I'd be worried.

i have never missed a mortgage payment - but consider that for only one of our properties, just coming off fixed interest - the interest on the mortgage has now increased $500/mth ... tenant rent in the same period has increased $200/mth - someone has to pay the shortfall and it ain't the tenant.

times that by half a dozen properties and all of a sudden you can find yourself relying on that rent cheque to come thru on time because the mortgage payment is due tomorrow.

p.s. what's wrong with sleeping on a mattress on the floor? i did it for years.

 

[Ausprop]

maybe you could give them your bank managers contact number and say that if the bank agrees to an interest rate holiday then you are fine with a rent holiday?

the trouble with this whole situation is... the agreement between you and your bank is 100% cold business, yet between you and your tenents (sic) you are a sort of a mother figure

 

[Dazz]

in my opinion not very empathetic.

In my opinion you need get rid of the bolded bits to describe the situation accurately.

Ausprop hit the nail on the head re: the relationship differences between the parties.

Bank and Landlord : Cold hard business - governing paperwork runs to ± 80 pages.

Landlord & Comm Tenant : Cold hard business - governing paperwork runs to ± 60 pages.

Investor & Res Tenant : Empathetic caregivers - governing paperwork runs to ± 4 pages.


Kathryn & Bob, don't put up with anymore cr@p from 'em. Run 'em off and get someone who places the rent a little further up their priority list.

28 tenants to manage, you're a modern day marvel. Couldn't think of anything worse.

We've got 8 tenants, 3 of which are wet handbags who pay bugger all and need their nose wiped every month or two. Bet ya can't guess who they might be.

 

[kathryn d]

you're right dazz, that is why they are gone June 30. We decided about 2 months ago we weren't renewing their lease.

 

[sailor]

You're right Pom. I should have added more detail.

This was the message she had attached to her email, that she supposedly sent.

"this is (tenant's name) from appt 4 on (tenant address)... i was wondering if you would be able to hold the rent untill the 15th of may ....we had to buy our youngest son a bed and i don't think we have enough to cover the rent ... thanks

That's 2 weeks late, if her rent is due on 1st of the month. Not acceptable. I would have been more empathic had she at least made an effort to pay a little something (perhaps one week's rent) as a sign of good faith.

 

[Dis]

..... our son broke his bed and we had to buy him a new one

Am I missing something........... If you don't have the money for rent / gas / power / food, don't you just sleep on the matress rather than buying a new bed?

 

[Player]

Am I missing something........... If you don't have the money for rent / gas / power / food, don't you just sleep on the matress rather than buying a new bed?

Not if you're a victim to instant gratification. Obviously their hierarchy of needs are different to the majority of the members here

 

[Dazz]

Am I missing something...........

Yes, I think you are Dis.

You see, by the very nature of the asset K & B own, they are being forced, through no fault of their own, to having to wade through the private life of their customer.

It's absolutely none of the Landlord's business to go wading through the murky waters of Tenant's private lives and budgetary habits (which if you are forced to do it are obviously in a complete mess). This is where lies and double lies thrive....and cos the investor isn't privy to any of it....they'll never know....and if they push too hard the tenant has every right to tell them to get stuffed and butt out.

the Landlord is in a no-win situation. We've been down this cul-de-sac many times.

To keep a strict business relationship doesn't help either, as you simply don't get paid any rent, so it's an issue.

This is one of the fundamental reasons we don't invest in these assets anymore.

The investor's capital growth and yield curves come a very very distant 9th or 10th on the priority scale compared to school shoes, food, nappies and a whole myriad of other costs that low income people put before the Landlord's rent. It's just the nature of the beast. I've never ever heard of parents forsaking food or clothing to instead pay the rent. The Landlord must and always does take a back seat. Residential tribunal decisions clearly underline this approach on a humanitarian perspective.

 

[paguatao]

My ex-tenant was behind and behind in rent, single mum (24) who was asking her parents to take money out of her account to pay rent cos she was "hopeless" (in her own words). That was the story, we didn't get paid, she owed almost $2000. Went to clean place up, found empty boxes for new toys for her young kid, receipt from Target for clothes for her young kid totalling over $160. They are absolutely hopeless and they don't give a s#!*

 

[Francesco]

...

This is one of the fundamental reasons we don't invest in these assets anymore.

The investor's capital growth and yield curves come a very very distant 9th or 10th on the priority scale compared to school shoes, food, nappies and a whole myriad of other costs that low income people put before the Landlord's rent. It's just the nature of the beast. I've never ever heard of parents forsaking food or clothing to instead pay the rent. The Landlord must and always does take a back seat. Residential tribunal decisions clearly underline this approach on a humanitarian perspective.

Agree with you, Dazzling. I only do alright in my IPs if at least 2 tenants are employed. Single mums with average to low income are appropriate clients of government housing agencies, which are big enough and have the mandate to sustain losses. Investors are better off giving tax deductible donations than being unwitting charities to these tenants.

 

[natmarie73]

Plus no doubt another half a dozen obligations that are a higher priority then paying the rent to keep a roof over your head.

The thing that I find incredible is that the broken bed took priority in an obvious tight budgetary situation. What's wrong with the mattress being on the floor for a time? Was good enough for my kids at various time for different reasons.

cheers

This type of story crops up way too often - the rent is always last on the list for some people - usually the ones who are the first to go and whinge to the tribunal over some imagined slight.

Tenants simply have to learn that the rent is always the number one priority and everything else must come second. As I see it they have two choices - buy their son a new bed and be homeless, or pay their rent and their son can sleep on his mattress for a bit. The landlord shouldn't have to be out of pocket because they make the wrong choice.

Too many do-gooder groups are perpetuating the notion that rent dosn't have to be paid on time as every other expense is more important and the rich landlord can just wait

 

[jaycee]

It's a hard one... A lot of the pple being alluded to, dont hve a problem only with rent

The bloke who runs the diary is a *******, wouldn't give me a pack of smokes on credit till pay day (cause you still owe him $50)

The govt don;t care all they do is take care of rich *******s so they can get more money..

Everyone is a ripoff, so if "I" fall behind/juggle this or that, what do you expect, I've ben bloody ripped off for years struggling

It comes down to a decent number of pple feeling this way & having lived this way....

Notall pple on pensions are like that, some are most responsible. Not all pple not working are not like that - believe you me: even the boss they work for is a ******* who rips them off

and becuse of thall these *******s.. I'm in my situation - what do you expect me to do ? You rip everyone off, and you expect me on my low wage/pension to be the only one who does the right thing ?!

Did it all start with a sulk about a schoolteacher "picking on me" which they never got over ?

 

[Pom]

In my opinion you need get rid of the bolded bits to describe the situation accurately.

Ausprop hit the nail on the head re: the relationship differences between the parties.

Bank and Landlord : Cold hard business - governing paperwork runs to ± 80 pages.

Landlord & Comm Tenant : Cold hard business - governing paperwork runs to ± 60 pages.

Investor & Res Tenant : Empathetic caregivers - governing paperwork runs to ± 4 pages.


Kathryn & Bob, don't put up with anymore cr@p from 'em. Run 'em off and get someone who places the rent a little further up their priority list.

28 tenants to manage, you're a modern day marvel. Couldn't think of anything worse.

We've got 8 tenants, 3 of which are wet handbags who pay bugger all and need their nose wiped every month or two. Bet ya can't guess who they might be.

I assume you are refering to the tenants being pathetic and not myself.

I completely agree with you in terms of paper work but then I imagine that, as an investor, you knew the law before you entered the resi market and factored that into your figures - I know I did. Tenants will miss the rent by a couple of weeks from time to time - its called investment risk. As I've said, if you can't cope financially with that then you are in too deep.

At the end of the day there has to be a balance - shelter is a neccesity and the government will always provide a certain amount of protection to a tenant as a result and quite right too. Stay in commercial property if you don't want to deal with this kind of legislation.

You sound like a winging Pom!

 

[jaycee]

True all businesses woudl have some sort of risk... customers shoplift from stores / don't pay monthly accounts / stretch payments out like it suits them (including large corproates with large accounts) / contractors do a shabby job...
it takes for creative management, which does include cutting off, but not necessarily at the first sign of a problem - what if you have no choice but to use contractors for example , go out of business is one answer, or one would weigh cases up first & look at the overall picture.. if the scenario is a recurring one, a process for dealing with it is made to mitgate as best one can (manage the way you deal with contractors better to lessen the risk)...

When does it become time to cut instead of manage ? Your guess is as good as mine (or probably better)

 

[Pom]

Yes, I think you are Dis.

You see, by the very nature of the asset K & B own, they are being forced, through no fault of their own, to having to wade through the private life of their customer.

It's absolutely none of the Landlord's business to go wading through the murky waters of Tenant's private lives and budgetary habits (which if you are forced to do it are obviously in a complete mess). This is where lies and double lies thrive....and cos the investor isn't privy to any of it....they'll never know....and if they push too hard the tenant has every right to tell them to get stuffed and butt out.

the Landlord is in a no-win situation. We've been down this cul-de-sac many times.

To keep a strict business relationship doesn't help either, as you simply don't get paid any rent, so it's an issue.

This is one of the fundamental reasons we don't invest in these assets anymore.

The investor's capital growth and yield curves come a very very distant 9th or 10th on the priority scale compared to school shoes, food, nappies and a whole myriad of other costs that low income people put before the Landlord's rent. It's just the nature of the beast. I've never ever heard of parents forsaking food or clothing to instead pay the rent. The Landlord must and always does take a back seat. Residential tribunal decisions clearly underline this approach on a humanitarian perspective.

I agree - at least you recognise that is the nature of the beast in this particular asset class. The above is a risk inherent in resi property investment BUT investors haven't priced that risk into their yield profiles, i.e. many have paid too much for their IPs and they are financially stretched as a result with minor tenant defaults.

Is that the tenant's fault or the investor? Perhaps both.

In commercial property tenant risk (covenant strength) is priced into the capital value. Two identical properties, one with ANZ as a tenant and one with Average Joe emporium, will have very different values.

Yields in Australian resi are terrible and will need to lengthen - will it happen through an increase in rents, decrease in capital value or a bit of both?

 

[Ausprop]

both I would say.

they reckon resi IP is safer because tenants are easier to find. at the yields they are paying is it really any surprise?