The end of the party

The end of the party
By John Collett
March 30, 2005
From the SMH:The end of the party http://www.smh.com.au

Speculators who got in early on the great property frenzy that falls neatly either side of the millennium (late 1997 to 2003) and have banked their capital gains are laughing.

But genuine investors have a simpler, longer-term strategy. That is: pay off the family home, or a good deal of it, and then borrow against the equity in the home at near-record-low interest rates and take advantage of generous tax deductions.

Of course, investors have always been a big part of the property market. But the investing crowd with shorter time frames and an eye on easy capital gains turned into something of a horde starting in 2000. Before they joined in, the annual property price rises of 10 per cent were "fully justified", says Rob Mellor, BIS Shrapnel director of building services and construction. Demand was solid as a result of increased immigration and land scarcity - particularly in Sydney and south-east Queensland - some natural, some state government-induced.

A combination of federal tax (and other) incentives, a poorly performing stockmarket and low interest rates set the scene for investor interest in residential property to really take off.

Mellor says the investor-induced boom really occurred between mid-2001 and mid-2003, when annual price growth reached more than 20 per cent. Over the same two years, the value of investment loans for residential property in NSW and Victoria increased by about 80 per cent.

Prices of houses and units nationally peaked in the March quarter of 2004 at $369,000 (a doubling since March quarter of 1998), and have fallen back a little bit since then. That house price growth is recorded without taking into account inflation needs to be kept in mind, says Adam Donaldson, a senior economist with the investment bank UBS.

While the accompanying graph (on page 10) shows that median property prices hardly ever fall, there are long periods, such as that following the late '80s boom up to the mid-'90s, when real prices have fallen.

The last time investors fed a residential property boom was in the early and mid-'70s (when shares performed poorly), Mellor says. Evidence of that investor-led boom is with us still: a blight on the Sydney landscape in the form of poor-quality mid-rise flats. Mellor suspects that in several years' time we may be looking at some of the poorer-quality, look-alike, high-rise apartments in the same way.

For investors who have overstretched hoping to make quick capital gains, particularly in off-the-plan high-rise developments in Sydney and Melbourne, the party is over. Rising interest rates and a more selective approach from lenders on the types of residential property they lend against have seen to that.

However, as long as the economy holds and job security remains strong, owner-occupiers will be able to sit tight during what will most likely be several years of flat prices in nominal terms, according to property analysts.

That's the big picture and the most likely scenario, but what happens area by area will vary greatly, as always.

Most exposed are the poor-quality, look-alike apartments. Some investors, urged on by get-rich-quick spruikers, have used deposit bonds to secure off-the-plan apartments. These are IOUs for a 10 per cent deposit which cost the investors only a few hundred dollars each.

Many dwellings are yet to be completed and some investors who put down deposit bonds will have to find finance when the apartment is completed. In a bid to head off trouble, some developers are providing finance to holders of deposit bonds.

For owner-occupiers and investors who have been conservative in their borrowing, there's nothing to fear. Everyone needs a roof over their head, immigration will stay strong and land close to the big eastern capital cities will get scarcer.

Still, there is a sufficient number of wild-cards this time to possibly upset the relatively sanguine forecasts of most analysts.

DEBT BURDEN

Chief among these is the unprecedented level of indebtedness and the sensitivity of household finances to rising interest rates.

However, the official figures show our appetite for debt is moderating. "Household balance sheets ... are getting a major overhaul as Australians become more prudent and conservative regarding debt," says Carl Jensen, a CommSec equities economist.

The two 0.25 percentage point rate hikes at the end of 2003 appear to be taking effect, with new lending commitments - which include housing, personal, commercial and lease loans - falling for the fourth time in the six months to January 31 this year. However, finance commitments still stand 5.7 per cent higher than a year ago.

The Reserve Bank increased rates by another 0.25 of a percentage point this month. If interest rates were to rise another 0.25 of a percentage point in the next few months, the impact on those highly leveraged into the property market could be severe.

A survey conducted by Hawker Britton UMR Research before this month's rate increase found that more than a quarter of home loan borrowers who responded would struggle if rates rose by 0.5 of a percentage point. More than 40 of respondents said they would struggle to maintain repayments if the mortgage rate rose by a percentage point.

MORTGAGE BROKERS

Another wild-card is the rise of the mortgage brokers, who now place 45 per cent of new loans and refinance 30 per cent of existing loans.

Brokers are paid sales commissions by lenders, so there is a strong incentive for them to recommend big mortgages.

Regulators want to be able to better police brokers but are hamstrung because brokers come under credit laws, which are the responsibility of the states. So far, the states and territories have not done much beyond issuing discussion papers on how the brokers should be regulated.

Another concern is the growth of non-bank lenders, especially those that specialise in the "non-conforming" market. These are the "low-doc" [low-documentation] loans taken out by those who find it difficult to get a loan because they don't meet traditional lending criteria (because they are either self-employed or have a chequered credit history). The risk is that some of these brokers may be massaging the information they give to lenders, degrading the credit quality of the lenders' loan books.

HARD LANDING

Last, but not least, is the biggest risk of all: that Australia's 14 years of uninterrupted economic growth ends with a hard landing. That is the doomsday scenario in which unemployed landlords start defaulting on their repayments - leading to forced sales.

Employment has been growing strongly. But, as the economist Ron Woods of Challenger Financial Services Group points out, almost three-quarters of all of the net job growth in the private sector in the past five years has come from just three sectors: construction, retail and property, and business services. A lot of the retail growth is property-related - furniture, window coverings, soft furnishings and whitegoods. In the first quarter of the year, the three sectors accounted for 87 per cent of all jobs created (including the public sectors).

Feeling the pinch
Maree Ward wishes she had sold her two investment properties on the NSW Central Coast before she bought a house to live in. Fed up with renting, she bought her four-bedroom Kellyville house last year. The first of her two investment properties was purchased in April 1999 and the second in October 2000.

The 35-year-old Sydney accountant would like to keep her investment properties, but has to sell. Her plan was to refinance her principal and interest mortgage to an interest-only loan but, with the dip in property prices, she has not been able to find a lender, including her current one, to refinance her mortgage.

After the interest-rate rise this month, Maree had to find an extra $150 a month for mortgage repayments.

After being on the market for almost a year the properties went to auction the weekend before last. Not a single bid was made.

Maree believes she will still make good capital gains on the two properties even though she is "almost selling these houses in a fire sale". Last week, one of her tenants gave notice. The property is likely to stay empty, she says, because no one is going to want to move into a house that is on the market.
 
Last edited:
Amokk

Thanks for the article.

It is a good idea when quoting an article to show its attribution- as in "From the SMH:The end of the party" or "from http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/03/29/1111862386744.html"

I prefer to quote the first few paras only- if I've linked the source articles, forumites can go to the source to read the full article:

Speculators who got in early on the great property frenzy that falls neatly either side of the millennium (late 1997 to 2003) and have banked their capital gains are laughing.

But genuine investors have a simpler, longer-term strategy. That is: pay off the family home, or a good deal of it, and then borrow against the equity in the home at near-record-low interest rates and take advantage of generous tax deductions.

Of course, investors have always been a big part of the property market. But the investing crowd with shorter time frames and an eye on easy capital gains turned into something of a horde starting in 2000. Before they joined in, the annual property price rises of 10 per cent were "fully justified", says Rob Mellor, BIS Shrapnel director of building services and construction. Demand was solid as a result of increased immigration and land scarcity - particularly in Sydney and south-east Queensland - some natural, some state government-induced...

It's not a big thing- just a courtesy to the people who write the articles and the people who publish them.
 
Many thanks for that. It comes across as a balanced, intelligent article. Can you advise where was it published?

regards,

EDITTED - thanks Geoff. You've answered my question while I was typing. P
 
geoffw said:
I prefer to quote the first few paras only- if I've linked the source articles, forumites can go to the source to read the full article:

It's not a big thing- just a courtesy to the people who write the articles and the people who publish them.
If you're posting an article from the SMH people would probably prefer if the whole thing was re-posted with the necessary credits as their website requires registration to get to the stories. The personal details you have to give up for the process is less than justified.
 
OSienna said:
If you're posting an article from the SMH people would probably prefer if the whole thing was re-posted with the necessary credits as their website requires registration to get to the stories. The personal details you have to give up for the process is less than justified.


The reality is the article is copyright to the author and the SMH, so it's breach of copyright to post it here, and if they want to impose conditions on peoples access to the article ( by requesting information off you ) it's their right to do that .

The alternative you have to free access on the internet, is to buy the paper.

See Change
 
OSienna said:
If you're posting an article from the SMH people would probably prefer if the whole thing was re-posted with the necessary credits as their website requires registration to get to the stories. The personal details you have to give up for the process is less than justified.

Problem solved!

Go to: http://www.bugmenot.com/ and type in the smh URL.

It will give you a login and password.

Bring up the SMH site and log in with the name and password provided.

(thanks to Paul Dwerryhouse on aus.rail for this tip!)

Peter
 
Back to the article it was one of the best (and few) things written that outlines in simple terms where the economy is as.

In some ways the economy is like a tightrope act.
Provided the RBA and Gov is concentrating, the act whilst dangerous, is a calculated risk.

A point that I noted was

A survey conducted by Hawker Britton UMR Research before this month's rate increase found that more than a quarter of home loan borrowers who responded would struggle if rates rose by 0.5 of a percentage point. More than 40 of respondents said they would struggle to maintain repayments if the mortgage rate rose by a percentage point.

Now I assume 40 means to say 40% but it is not clear.

A shame as that would truely identify when the pain will start.

Also this fact could be very scary:

almost three-quarters of all of the net job growth in the private sector in the past five years has come from just three sectors: construction, retail and property, and business services. A lot of the retail growth is property-related - furniture, window coverings, soft furnishings and whitegoods. In the first quarter of the year, the three sectors accounted for 87 per cent of all jobs created (including the public sectors).

So if correct it could be that if spending on homes stalls then jobs stall?

If could also be that jobs are created where the demand is so it is a misleading indicator. If demand moves to say clothing the we may see jobs happen there in retail, for instance.

Nevertherless, I still believe in the tighrope theory.

Things could fall over.

Rate rises could force wage rises that force inflation that force rate rises that......your get the picture.

Certainly prices are dropping and the all importance confidence is gone. Until that returns prices willbe flat or decline further IMO.

Regards, Peter 147
 
Peter 147 said:
Certainly prices are dropping and the all importance confidence is gone. Until that returns prices willbe flat or decline further IMO.

Regards, Peter 147

Peter , the 40% who would have problems with a 1 % rate rise is scary ( though I'm sure some people will be rubbing their hands in anticipation :rolleyes: ...)

It's interesting that the market isn't going down everywhere . By all accounts Perth is still going well and my personal experience indicates Rocky has jumped by another 10-15 K in the last three - four months so there are still people out there are prepared to push the market higher.

See Change
 
see_change said:
Peter , the 40% who would have problems with a 1 % rate rise is scary ( though I'm sure some people will be rubbing their hands in anticipation :rolleyes: ...)

It's interesting that the market isn't going down everywhere . By all accounts Perth is still going well and my personal experience indicates Rocky has jumped by another 10-15 K in the last three - four months so there are still people out there are prepared to push the market higher.

See Change

Correct, I am viewing only three markets, Gold Coast, Sydney Inner City and Macedon Ranges VIC.

These are dropping or very negotiable. ;)

Perth has the resources boom i assume and Rocky could be at the end of the wave?

Those who sold up in Sydney buying in Regionals?

Just a thought, Peter 147
 
Originally posted by Peter 147
almost three-quarters of all of the net job growth in the private sector in the past five years has come from just three sectors: construction, retail and property, and business services. A lot of the retail growth is property-related - furniture, window coverings, soft furnishings and whitegoods. In the first quarter of the year, the three sectors accounted for 87 per cent of all jobs created (including the public sectors).

This is scary.

Regarding property, just think of all the new real estate agents that make up the job growth in the last 5 years. Then think of all the people that gave up jobs that really produce something to be real estate agents. I don't blame them, who wouldn't give up a blue coller job to go and earn around 100K pa without having to spend anything on education and re-training? But where does it leave our national level of skills......

ciao.
 
ALso part of the article but not originally posted, peter 147

A property frenzy like no other

April 1986 - Financial deregulation

Hawke/Keating Government starts deregulating the financial services industry, opening the big banks to competition from new entrants.

February 1992 - Non-bank lenders

Aussie Home Loans opens it doors, becoming the first non-bank lender to take advantage of financial deregulation to compete with the banks. Aussie offers much cheaper standard variable-rate loans than those of the banks. Aussie is the first to use mobile lenders.

September 1997 - Banks respond

The banks start responding to non-bank lenders and slash their margins on mortgages in response to slipping market share.

September 1999 - Capital gains favoured

Halving of capital gains tax on investments held for at least a year gives capital gains plays a tax advantage over income-producing investments.

July 2000 - First Home Owners' Grant

The Federal Government introduces a $7000 First Home Owners' Grant to offset the impact of the GST on the cost of building materials.

March 2001 - Extension of grant

The First Home Owners' Grant is doubled to $14,000 and creates a massive "pull-forward" in demand for housing among first-home owners.

December 2001 - Cheap money

From a cash rate of 7 per cent in July 1994 and a mortgage rate of just under 10 per cent, the cash rate falls to 4.25 per cent in December 2001 - its lowest in almost 30 years. That takes the standard variable home loan rates offered by the big banks to just over 6 per cent.

June 2002 - Investment loans sky-rocket

For the year to June 30, 2002, the value of investment loans for residential property increases by 47 per cent in NSW and 63 per cent in Victoria.

December 2002 - Australian shares dive

The Australian sharemarket returns minus 8 per cent for the year to December 2002 while the median house price rises more than 20 per cent as, spurred on by low interest rates, more investors seek safety in bricks and mortar.

December 2002 - Off-the-plan apartments

The Reserve Bank Governor, Ian Macfarlane, warns property investors not to be seduced by developers into "get-rich-quick" high-rise schemes.

March 2003 - Broker regulation

A report by the Consumer Credit Legal Centre NSW, commissioned by the Australian Securities & Investments Commission, finds cases of high-pressure sales tactics. The centre calls for the regulation of the sector.

June 2003 - Real-estate agents

For 2002-03, the real-estate industry's total revenue, mostly from sales commissions, comes to a record $7.5 billion. Rising house prices and turnover result in an increase in the industry's average annual income of 17.8 per cent over the past four years.

June 2003 - Height of frenzy

Following the massive increase in investor activity for the year to June 30, 2003, investment loans for residential property rise by

30 per cent in NSW and 18 per cent in Victoria.

June 2003 - TV property shows

The media plays an important role in asset price bubbles. The number of property-related shows peaks in June 2003. During the boom, property-related TV shows include The Block, Hot Property, Backyard Blitz, Auction Squad, DIY Rescue and Location, Location.

August 2003 - Car-as-security for mortgage

A non-bank lender, Liberty Financial, allows would-be home owners to put up their cars as collateral for a mortgage. The product is quickly withdrawn after adverse media coverage.

November 2003 - Nation of landlords

The proportion of households owning investment property reaches 12 per cent. In June 1997, the proportion of households owning investment property was 6.5 per cent.

December 2003 - Spruikers

The property spruiker Henry Kaye comes to prominence after it is found that a subsidiary of the collapsed insurance giant HIH lent money to Kaye's company National Investment Institute. Kaye charges up to $15,000 for his "educational" seminars.

December 2003 - Price-to-earnings highest ever

The p/e ratio, calculated by the investment bank UBS, measures the price of houses divided by the income from property (rental). It reaches almost 40 in December. The previous highest p/e ratio was in March 1975, when it reached 32. The long-term p/e ratio of the stockmarket is about 14.

January 2004 - Debt binge

The ratio of household debt to household disposable income reaches more than 130 per cent. Five years earlier, at 56 per cent, it was low by international standards.

January 2004 - Property lending

Lending grew by 15.1 per cent over 2003 - the highest annual rate since October 1989. Equity in the home is being leveraged to take on more debt for investment and consumption.

July 2004 - Tax deductions

Negative-gearing tax deductions on rental properties reach almost $15 billion for the 2002-03 financial year. This is after 220,000 landlords lodged claims with the Australian Taxation Office for the first time.

February 2005 - Mortgage insurers

The Australian Prudential Regulation Authority moves to impose higher standards on the mortgage insurance industry, including higher capital requirements against "low doc" loans, to shield the banking sector against a housing downturn. Mortgage insurance protects lenders, not borrowers, from defaults on mortgages.

February 2005 - Low-doc takes off

Between 15 and 20 per cent of all mortgage lending is low-documentation. "Low-doc" loans are for those who work for themselves, or have a poor credit history, who would normally find it difficult to get a loan.

March 2005 - Brokers

A report by JP Morgan and Fujitsu shows that brokers account for 45 per cent of new loans and 30 per cent of existing loans (refinancing).
 
Thommo said:
Keeping a close eye on your shares today Seech? Looks nasty. :eek:

Rate fears knock shares
March 30, 2005
From: AAP
http://finance.news.com.au/story/0,10166,12700605-462,00.html

THE share market fell further at noon today after its biggest one-day sell-off in more than two years yesterday, as jittery investors sold stocks on fears of higher interest rates.
At 1200 AEST the benchmark S&P/ASX 200 was down 35.7 points to 4059.9 while the All Ordinaries Index fell 40 points to 4051.9.

On the Sydney Futures Exchange, the June share price index contract lost 48 points to 4080 on a volume of 17,078 contracts.

Losses were recorded across sectors, after banks led yesterday's plummet.

"People think we have run too far," Hudson Securities institutional dealer Ric Klusman said.

"We have had an interest rate hike. People are just scared silly," he said.

"We have had a pretty bloody week and a half," Mr Klusman said.

After a strong run on the stock market in recent weeks, many investors are profit-taking on fears that shares could drop next week if the Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) raises the official cash rate to 5.75 per cent from 5.50 per cent.

Mr Klusman said he expected that the end of the quarter tomorrow could provide some relief. "I think it will stabilise," he said.

Overnight in Wall Street, US stocks fell, with the Dow Jones Industrial Average losing 66.57 points to 10,419.08.

The Standard & Poor's 500 Index lost 6.86 points at 1167.42 while the Nasdaq Composite Index fell 14.92 points to 1977.60.

In the resources sector, BlueScope Steel suffered, losing 30 cents, or more than three per cent, to $8.39 by 1211 AEST.

BHP Billiton slid 35 cents to $17.61 and its takeover target WMC Resources dropped three cents to $7.94, while Rio Tinto dropped 73 cents to $44.04 and Alumina slipped back 13 cents to $5.82.

Among the oil companies, Woodside Petroleum shed 19 cents to $24.61, but Santos shares lifted 18 cents ? or more than two per cent ? to $9.04 after commencing first commercial production at a development off Western Australia.

In the media sector, shares in the Ten Network slipped five cents to $3.57 ahead of its interim results announcement today.

Rival, the Seven Network, lost six cents to $7.78 while Nine Network owner Publishing and Broadcasting Ltd moved down 19 cents to $15.11.

Media conglomerate News Corporation shed 21 cents to $22.50 while its non-voting shares were down 30 cents at $21.84.

In the banking sector, National Australia Bank dropped 17 cents to $28.32, the Commonwealth Bank slipped 26 cents to $34.25, the ANZ fell 16 cents to $20.43 and St George Bank lost 13 cents to $24.60 by 1223 AEST.

But Westpac bucked the trend, gaining seven cents to $18.84.

Among the insurers, QBE Insurance lost 14 cents to $14.58, Promina slipped three cents to $4.72 and Suncorp-Metway dropped three cents to $19.05, but Insurance Australia Group gained one cent to $6.10.

AMP shares descended three cents to $6.84 and AXA lost five cents to $4.12.

The retail sector was mixed, with Coles Myer losing 10 cents to $9.55 and Harvey Norman down five cents at $2.70, but Woolworths moved ahead 17 cents to $16.24 and David Jones shifted one cent higher to $2.01.

Telstra slipped two cents to hit the $5.00 mark while rival Singapore Telecommunications ? parent company of Optus ? fell four cents to $2.01.

Qantas Airways lost three cents to $3.46 and shares in rival Virgin Blue were steady at $1.90.

In the gold sector, Newcrest Mining fell 23 cents to $16.86, Newmont Mining lost four cents to $5.35 and AngloGold Ashanti shed eight cents to $8.98. At 1231 AEST the spot price of gold was $US425.85 per ounce, $US1.30 lower than yesterday's close.

The top traded stock by volume was Deep Yellow Ltd, with 41.78 million shares traded for a total value of $2.34 million. The stock fell 0.7 of a cent to five cents.

National turnover had reached 682.85 million shares changing hands for a total value of $1.76 billion, with 285 stocks rising, 1,121 falling and 335 unchanged.
 
Thommo said:
Keeping a close eye on your shares today Seech? Looks nasty. :eek:

On a weekly system . Had four sells on tuesday ( long weekend ). All down today , though the one that is down the most ( MCC) is still well in profit. Bought one yesterday and that seems to be holding up reasonably well.

Havn't had many buy signals in last month, compared to about six weeks ago.

I'll be persisting with this system for a while yet, simply because the long term results ( on back testing ) are very good BUT most of the profits are made in relatively short periods and it will have drawdowns on the shorter / Medium term basis.

It's different psychologically from property investing , and I want to feel a lot more confident in the ability of the system and myself before I put large amounts of money into it.

See Change
 
Peter 147 said:
....and Rocky could be at the end of the wave?

Those who sold up in Sydney buying in Regionals?

Just a thought, Peter 147

Time will tell . Just hope that when the wave breaks not too many people are dumped on the rocky shore ....

Talking to agents , alot of the current buyers are locals or cashed up miners from the hinterland.

See Change
 
Ray,

I look around the engineering offices where I work. Every single person sits in front of a computer tapping away. What do they really produce?

Over the last generation a tremendous amount of manufacturing has disappeared from the Australia.

Asian economies in particular have become the workshops for much of the world.

I can foresee that engineering work currently done in offices like the one I'm in will with time be largely done overseas. It has happened / is happening with computer software development and much other work.

Skills and training of the next generation of Australian workers is apparently being severely neglected - according to recent media reports.

There are major changes occuring. As I see it, this is a continuation of the changes that have been happening over the last century and a half. From when most people lived on the land and have moved into the cities with increasing industrialisation.

Like you, I wonder where does it lead?

regards,
 
I read as far as:

But genuine investors have a simpler, longer-term strategy.

Like that piece of blatant media rhetoric, the rest of this thread appears to have little value to an investor seeking to educate and advance themself.

Yawn.

Can we talk about something that would educate people and help them select the right investment vehicles for today rather than moaning about the gloom & doom in the media.

If property isn't working for you, buy shares, if shares aren't working for you, buy businesses, etc.

For instance, Pete's email above highlights a major opportunity - but how many people are looking beyond the gloom in it?

Cheers,

Aceyducey
 
Pete said:
Ray,

I look around the engineering offices where I work. Every single person sits in front of a computer tapping away. What do they really produce?

Over the last generation a tremendous amount of manufacturing has disappeared from the Australia.

Asian economies in particular have become the workshops for much of the world.

I can foresee that engineering work currently done in offices like the one I'm in will with time be largely done overseas. It has happened / is happening with computer software development and much other work.

Skills and training of the next generation of Australian workers is apparently being severely neglected - according to recent media reports.

There are major changes occuring. As I see it, this is a continuation of the changes that have been happening over the last century and a half. From when most people lived on the land and have moved into the cities with increasing industrialisation.

Like you, I wonder where does it lead?

regards,

Regarding your fear I see it as an extension of Globalisation.

What we do well they will buy, food, minerals, etc.

What they do well we will buy, small manufacturing, clothes, etc.

It is bit like where I grew up in Shepparton.

In Shepp we grow Fruit well. Orchards everywhere. Disease free. Irrigated, etc...

As a boy Dad worked at SPC cannery, 5 km away im Mooroopna was Ardmona Cannery, 35km away was Kyabram Cannery. And 250km was Leeton Cannery.

Each completed with each other. Each had the same processing equipment sitting idle half the year. Each had trucks, HR dept, can shops etc...

First Leeton and Ky could not complete with SPC and Ardmona. As they died the other two got stronger. Yet in 1990 SPC almost died after 70 years. They survived and modernised everting and thier packaging which was the savour. SPC Fridge Packs and the seal on top of tomatoe pre made sauces containers came from them.

Then 5 years ago, the unthinkable happened. SPC and Ardmona merged. :eek:

Now SPC Group has been bought out by CCA or Coca Cola.

Is this bad?

No.

In the merger they were able to save $$ by not haveing two pear lines and peach lines each. Ardmons did say Pears and SPC the Peaches. They could share trucks and equipment. Break downs could be covered without fruit going to waste. Etc..

Cans (a big cost) were outsourced totally to company that makes cans for everyon including pet food, etc..

Whoever had market share got to keep thier Brand. Like Ardmona Tomato Paste, probably made in SPC but marketed Ardmona.

Also in the down time they make jams for IXL and tomatoes for Coles or Aldi Brand etc...

Stronger and more profitable than ever they were approached in friendly take over by Coke. Why go with Coke.

Power to again lower op costs and marketing costs and to increase volume through Cokes ability to demand best shelves and such. Also greater influence into international markets.

All in all the change had to come or they would have died in 1990. Sure we dont make stuff in Kyabram anymore but it no dobt got into another area of focus.

Unless China can grow food as cheap as us or find minerals as cheap as us we are OK.

Do what you do well and do not do what you don't.

Peter 147
 
Aceyducey said:
Pete's email above highlights a major opportunity - but how many people are looking beyond the gloom in it?

Peter 147 said:
Regarding your fear I see it as an extension of Globalisation.

Guys who says Pete's post was full of gloom and fear? Re-read it, he has doubts as to where we will end up but I didn't detect any fear...
 
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