The Investors Club

[chris8959]

Just ask them!

The biggest thing I have found with them is the honest answers they give. I have been told, and found to be true that there are no secrets in "TIC". I have asked in the past what they get out of it and with out hesitation been told everything I wanted to know and then some. This goes for runners, support members and branch managers etc. So just ask them.

 

[bennos]

"Just ask them" something I've pondered over but am yet to do. The reason for not having done so is because their answer might become a deciding factor to my decision to not have anything to do with them. Like if they offer some bulldust about their want to help those in need.

Wow REALISATION... that sounds like exactly the reason to ask them!! If their answer if not accepted then just walk away right.

 

[Ausprop]

would it really change your perspective? they sell the stock to earn sales coms, I dont think there is any debate about that. Just because the guy at harvey norman gets paid to flog me a fridge doesnt mean i refuse to buy it. He can tell me all day long how much he loves helping people decide which fridge to buy but the end of the day he is there because he gets paid to, else he could sit on the beach and tell people there which brand is best.

 

[urban cowboy]

I don't think anyone really is bagging them as such - they do hve a lot of useful information and help a lot of people enter the marketplace. they are fantastic for newbies and the like to get them started with all support etc.

My comments are made from a different perspective than a newbies...as a bloke who has done some buying and selling i dont need them - but certainly see how they can be of service to first timers.

the other side is that as an agent i come up against them fairly regularly and i get to see the side of them that most people dont - not that its necessarily bad, just different...they charge owners (developers) an exorbitant amount for "marketing" their property to TIC buyers...from that perspective i don't think they are needed.

But again - they can be good for newbie investors - and if it gets you on they way to financial freedom, then more power to you!!

 

[nonrecourse]

I paid $50 way back in 1995 to join and receive their investment newsletter ,when the club first had a stand at Geoff's shed in Melbourne. It was a property expose' that still occurs every year.

Twelve years later they still send me their regular newsletter even though I have never purchased a property from them. There was a break off group that formed around 1999 and they somehow had access to members contact details but their literature stopped coming about two years ago.

My wife has the better antenna for sorting out who or what is a scam and she went with me reluctantly in 1996 to an information night. By that stage we had purchased our first two commercial properties and had come to the realization that we liked being in control of our own show.

We did not go with TIC simply because the properties were in Queensland. We were impressed with the early individuals we met and the sincerity that we encountered. I think they are a fantastic group if you want someone to hold your hand and lets face it that is 80% of the population.

A few years ago ASIC went after them because of their no tenant no worries mate insurance cover. The ASIC approached something like 3000 property owners who had taken out coverage with TIC and they couldn't get even 1 complaint!!!!

In the end the ASIC got them on a minor technicality of not issuing a prospectus because they were not a licensed insurer. Not sure if they still are able to offer insurance. I'm sure the insurance industry was the initiator of the complaint.

In the last few years I have noticed that the properties they are promoting has a smaller land component. To be fair particularly in Melbourne that has been a natural progression. In the last 12 years values have gone up by 300%

In the early years one of their claims to fame was that if you could not get a 6%+ rental and depreciation yield they would not recommend it

 

[Highlygeared]

TIC know their theory as well as anyone else but to determine whether you should be a disciple, consider this (for those in Sydney) . I went to a seminar a few yrs ago out of curiosity and they suggested buying into a multi unit development in Alexandria (177 Mitchell Rd) - great suburb, wrong property. I knew that building/resort complex well but i can think of 100 better places to park $400K.

 

[alexlee]

Early on they were good. As they got bigger the quality of the properties on the list deteriorated. Partly because the market was so hot it was harder for them to negotiate better deals, I suppose.

If you're a newbie with no experience, they're not a bad choice.
Alex

 

[Ausprop]

I paid $50 way back in 1995 to join and receive their investment newsletter ,when the club first had a stand at Geoff's shed in Melbourne.

I think it is important to clarify that you can't "join" the TIC as they aren't a club, just as you can't "join" LJ Hooker as a member. It sounds as tho you paid them $50 for them to send you spam, which I have to admit sounds like one of the cleverest marketing successes I have heard for a long time.

 

[asdf]

They provide a great service to newbies but ultimately are a profit organisation themselves. Buyers do not pay any fees as payments and re-imbursements are received directly from vendors and developers. Most IPs on the recommended list are new and often hassle free. Great for the armchair investor. Which one are you....?

 

[timmyboy]

Personally, I bought my earlier properties through the Investors Club, and they have done pretty well. ANY property would have done well in the last 7 years, but the key is that if I hadn't bought through them, I probably wouldn't have bought anything. I stopped dealing with them after 2003 because the properties on their list just didn't appeal to me anymore (low yields) and I was moving towards houses.

The difference between them and a 2 tier marketing company is that, as far as my research has shown on the properties I saw, the prices they advertise are around market price. At least it's not massively inflated like you see with some dodgy marketing companies.

For my first one, the first thing I asked the guy who showed me the property after we saw it was to take me to a few local agents so that I could compare prices. He did, and the prices were comparable (i.e. they weren't loading up the price just because I was from interstate). A 2 tier scam company would never do that because it would expose them.

However, that is not to say all their properties are good. In 2003 I bought one from them where the valuation came in at 10% below the purchase price. I had the option to pull out but I went ahead. Returns have been flat for almost 3 years (but then my next property was in Perth that returned 100% in 3 years). It's about averaging. If I hadn't bought that Brisbane one at the peak, I would have broken my momentum and wouldn't have bought the Perth one.

Treat them as what they are: agents who also teach you the basics of property investment. Go to the meetings to learn: you don't have to buy anything if you don't want to. I knew nothing about IPs before going to the IC meetings, and they started me on the road. However, now that I have a little bit of experience, I don't need as much hand-holding and I can do it myself.

They ARE big on negative gearing, mainly because their business model depends on new developments. Sourcing older properties wouldn't be cost-effective, presumably.

Could I have done better without them? If I knew then what I know now, yes. But I knew nothing about IPs then. Would I have started buying IPs if I hadn't gone to their meetings? Who knows.
Alex

I know this goes aways back Alex,
but it's interesting for me, and hopefully others, to note that someone who has done the yards that you have, started in the way you did.
The thing I most appreciate from this post, and it does stem from April, is that everyone needs to get a start. Rightly or wrongly, TIC has its place.
I know people from a previous workplace who, up until I left, had done and will continue to, do well from them.
I made sure my sister did her own, satisfactory and full, research before investing through them - it turned out it wasn't for her.
I don't have a lot compared to most on this forum, but would I look at TIC?
Of course - if what I believe is a good deal is offered.
But then again, how do I know what is a good deal, until it either falls in a heap or turns out to be roses...
You have to be in it to win it.

Tim

 

[greyman]

The Investors Club - a perspective

It has been a while since I visited this site, and as a Support Member with The Investors Club, I would like to share some of the following with you.
Being a very sceptical person, I had many reservations about 'getting something for nothing'. This was over six years ago, and since that initial introduction, I have come to realise that The Investors Club offers fantastic services and networking opportunities for its members. The club basically comprises two parts - the business side where properties are sourced and sold to its members, and the club side where there is a very large support network of fellow investors who assist each other and get together at regular meetings, seminars and social activities.
The Investors Club will always strive to obtain IP's well below REA's list prices and if the club is unable to negotiate on price, they will usually seek to have other inclusions such as a furniture package, air con, security screens, etc. at no additional cost. All of the services provided to members at no cost is paid for by the vendor out of their profit - members pay nothing more than the listed purchase price.
One of the earlier posts made mention of Support Members working 'damn hard'. A Support Member puts in countless hours of work helping other members to learn about the investment process and to resolve any issues as they arise both pre and post acquisition of an IP. This support is provided 24/7/365 at absolutely no cost to the member. Support Members do receive a payment when a member finally settles an investment property, however this payment is all that the Support Member will ever receive even though they continue to provide advice and support for years to come. Would you be prepared to be available 24/7 to help fellow investors with any investment problem whatsoever for around $5 per week?
While The Investors Club is of most benefit to new investors, once you experience the support available through the club, most members continue to purchase through the club. Many have gone out and done it themselves only to come back to the club because it was easier.
The Investors Club is about educating investors on how to build a portfolio of good quality, well located property that has better than average capital growth and that will ultimately provide a significant level of income through efficient use of equity.

 

[yo yo ma]

The Investors Club will always strive to obtain IP's well below REA's list prices and if the club is unable to negotiate on price, they will usually seek to have other inclusions such as a furniture package, air con, security screens, etc. at no additional cost. All of the services provided to members at no cost is paid for by the vendor out of their profit - members pay nothing more than the listed purchase price.

Can you give us any examples of this?

Would you be prepared to be available 24/7 to help fellow investors with any investment problem whatsoever for around $5 per week?

I don't understand this... Is this what you are paid? You can get advice with any investment problem whatsoever on this site for free...
Steve

 

[alexlee]

With all due respect to the support members who taught me the basics and started me on this road to investing, you can get better advice on this forum, practically 24/7 and none of us get paid.
Alex

 

[Dazz]

The Investors Club is about educating investors

If you believe that, you haven't quite read the fine legal print of the holding company (begins with an L, but for the life of me cannot remember the full name....it's been a few years) that controls all operations within the club. When reading this documentation thoroughly, there is absolutely no illusion as to what the prime purpose of this controlling entity is for. I can confirm it ain't about education of investors.

.....to build a portfolio of good quality, well located property that has better than average capital growth and that will ultimately provide a significant level of income through efficient use of equity.

This is fairly subjective. I reckon a bunny investor would probably agree with you. But having seen an extensive presentation on both WA State manager's portfolio's (herein referred to as the South African mafia)....including what they paid for their props, what they are worth now, what the rent was, and what the rent is now, I can also confirm they have had very poor growth, and the nett yield on the places is shocking....close to 2 or 2.5% in most cases. This is for brand spanking new stuff pumped out by the developers.

As I repeated earlier in the thread, the capital growth is poor, the nett yield is rubbish, and the maintenance issues can be huge. This illusion that is always stated that brand new houses have no maintenance issues is clearly false. There was a great thread highlighting the problems that can occur when people (renters) need to "break-in" new constructions. The bills can add up big time.

Anyway, good luck to you sir with your $ 5 p.w. Having met a few support members in my time, I believe the real motivation of why you do this 24/7 thing is for you guys to stand up there and tell your story to the wide eyed hopefuls sitting in your audience. You get a buzz out of that, especially when they ask you questions and subjugate their authority to you. To mention the $ 5 p.w. which is irrelevant, without mentioning the real reason is a tad misleading IMO.

Of course, when you come up against an experienced investor, who doesn't bow to your implied authority...btw, owning 2 club properties worth 250K each with a total loan of 475K doesn't qualify you to stand up there and tell people you are well on your way to having red sleeves on your shirt (a member of the Property Millionaire's Club), things don't seem to go so swell in the Club atmosphere.

 

[alexlee]

I know this goes aways back Alex,
but it's interesting for me, and hopefully others, to note that someone who has done the yards that you have, started in the way you did.
The thing I most appreciate from this post, and it does stem from April, is that everyone needs to get a start. Rightly or wrongly, TIC has its place.
I know people from a previous workplace who, up until I left, had done and will continue to, do well from them.

I certainly think they are not a bad place to start. Put it this way, they compare favourable to most agents (who probably won’t teach you the basics – fair enough since that’s not what they get paid for) and certainly better than most marketing companies. Ultimately, even if you buy at market price, keep buying at market price and continue to hold, you will still do extremely well over time. It’s like the old story of the person who just bought shares she ‘knew’, the big companies that she liked and used, and just kept holding on. You don’t need to buy ‘bargains’ to get rich in property: you just need patience and time.

I don't have a lot compared to most on this forum, but would I look at TIC?
Of course - if what I believe is a good deal is offered.
But then again, how do I know what is a good deal, until it either falls in a heap or turns out to be roses...
You have to be in it to win it.

When I started, I didn’t know how to spot a good deal (I still don’t). All I knew was that I wanted to pay not more than market. So I did the basic research: compared the IC prices with ads from local agents for similar properties.

I never know how a property will turn out in the short term. I bought the Brisbane place in 2003 expecting growth to continue (it flattened for about 2 years) while I bought the Perth place thinking I’ll get the normal 7-10% growth.
Alex

 

[greyman]

If you believe that, you haven't quite read the fine legal print of the holding company (begins with an L, but for the life of me cannot remember the full name....it's been a few years) that controls all operations within the club. When reading this documentation thoroughly, there is absolutely no illusion as to what the prime purpose of this controlling entity is for. I can confirm it ain't about education of investors.

The name of the parent company is Lisson Pty Ltd, and if Dazzling was paying attention, I do believe that I made mention of the fact that The Investors Club comprises two parts. The 'business' part is certainly headed by Lisson Pty Ltd but more importantly, the club part is made up of all of the property investor members, both experienced and otherwise, who have found the club to be a very supportive environment.

If I were a betting man I would suspect that Dazzling has a very close writing style to another well known individual who has a definite dislike for The Investors Club and who also makes outrageous comments about the club.

If members of The Investors Club have purchased properties through the club that simply didn't perform in terms of capital growth, do you think that they would keep purchasing through the club? If you do, I think that you are insulting the intelligence of our members.

 

[greyman]

Can you give us any examples of this?
I don't understand this... Is this what you are paid? You can get advice with any investment problem whatsoever on this site for free...
Steve

But then again are you prepared to receive telephone calls at any time of the day or night or travel to someone's house, often involving driving an hour or more each way?

I too can offer advice free of charge in a forum such as this, but as they say, there is nothing like a bit of personal service involving a bit more effort and expense on my part.

 

[urban cowboy]

The Investors Club will always strive to obtain IP's well below REA's list prices and if the club is unable to negotiate on price, they will usually seek to have other inclusions such as a furniture package, air con, security screens, etc. at no additional cost. All of the services provided to members at no cost is paid for by the vendor out of their profit - members pay nothing more than the listed purchase price.

I have no argument with your education philosphy, nor you value added services etc...and even applaud you for it...

however i think you need to open your eyes re the list price argument...what happens all over brisbane now, as per my earlier post, is that developers set their price based on your fees and charges and then let us sell them cheaper as we only hit them for REIQ comms...

yes there will be exceptions, and the advertised price might be higher than yours...but we get told on the side all the time that they will take any offer over x amount...which is cheaper than the published price and what you are selling them for. Have offloaded several in Nundah like this over the last 18months up against you guys...

so really, you're not getting them cheaper for the client, but i do applaud you for holding their hand through the process etc.

 

[JFisher]

Hi all

Has anyone heard of, or are a part of, The Investors Club?

I seen their stand at the home expo in Adelaide today and they seem to have a good set up. I'm on the verge of starting to change my life thru investing and want as much info as i can get.

Cheers

DJM

My 'old' accountant told me to be wary of these types of clubs if that was how I was educating myself on property; but that was after I told him I needed to find an accountant who had more experience in property investing etc! Whether it was sour grapes or not I don't know.

 

[yo yo ma]

The Investors Club will always strive to obtain IP's well below REA's list prices and if the club is unable to negotiate on price, they will usually seek to have other inclusions such as a furniture package, air con, security screens, etc. at no additional cost.

Greyman, you did not provide an example... I am not asking for a specific example of a property located at xxx. I will give you an example of the details I am after... TIC is currently selling 2 bed units in Melbourne for $450k. The average for the same postcode is $475k. These rent for $400 per week which is average for the area.
Steve