The Mint Group - now managing "wraps" for members

I (foolishly) gave my email address out at a RichDad seminar in Syd and these Mint Group guys have been mailing me ever since - I just never got around to removing myself from their list.
Anyhow, something in their latest email caught my eye. They seem to be offering a layman's managed wrap service to their members - intriguing. The blurb below describes their service. All seems nice but I wonder what target returns and performance warranties etc. they are offering??

Any comments on this investment proposal? Anyone have experience with the Mint Group?

Cheers. Andrew.

How it works
The Mint Group, together with Home First, will help investors to acquire a property to resell.

As an investor you apply for and obtain finance to acquire the investment property through Home First. You also provide the deposit and all costs associated with the acquisition of the property in the form of a one-time capital contribution or via a line of credit, explained earlier in this newsletter by Graham Gribble.

Then Home First does the work: finding the property, marketing the property, negotiating on the sale price, and then collecting on payments and managing the property itself. And when you resell the property, it is contractually recognised as an Option to Purchase with a License to Occupy, meaning you remain responsible for the original underlying loan and retain the legal title to the property.

With a number of advantages over the 'do-it-yourself' or equity partner approaches to property investment, the Positive Cash Flow Property system with the Mint Group offers you a fantastic investment opportunity.

How do I find out more?

To find out more about this exciting opportunity contact:
Amanda Lee on (02) 92997383
or email [email protected]
Dear Andrew,

1) ASIC Extract

First of all an ASIC extract shows that Mint group has been going since April this year. Probably members on the forum would have had limited interaction with them unless they operated as a different entity prior to this.

Extracted from ASIC's database at 22:18:12 on 31/10/2002
ACN 100 237 303

ABN 30 100 237 303

Type Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares
Date 16/04/2002
Status Registered Locality of Registered Office Sydney NSW 2000

Jurisdiction Australian Securities & Investments Commission

These are the documents most recently received by ASIC from this organisation. Page numbers are shown if processing is complete and the document is available for purchase.
Received Number Pages Description
08/05/2002 0E7256157 1 304C Notification of Change of Name or Address of Officeholder

16/04/2002 0E7219861 3 201C Application For Registration as a Proprietary Company

2) Initial Meeting Cost

I am always interested in new ideas. However when I look on their website I see that they are basically an accountant with some investment advice. (I also note that they do not list their address on their website.)

Dale will confirm this but most accountants will allow you to have a first introductory meeting "free" in order to work out if they fit with yourself and you are comfortable with their levels of expertise and advice. However for them to say that they will charge $330 for an "information meeting" makes me question why I should pay them money upfront before they have even proved themselves as a worthwhile accountant to me.

On the other hand if they are trying to sell a "fantastic investment opportunity" why on earth should you pay $330 in order to have them "sell" this opportunity to you?

Andrew, I would certainly do more due diligence before paying money to the Mint Group. If they want to give you a "sales" meeting for FREE then take it and post further feedback on here. We can then further analyse the proposal further.


The Mint Group is Bruce Whiting's company. Bruce co-wrote John Burley's book (he's also responsible for all the Australian content). As Bruce presents at RishDad seminars as well - you're getting email from one of the presenter. They'll happily remove you if asked.

Bruce knows his stuff and has been helping wealth builders and creative finance folk for years.

Yes he's an accountant. So is Steve McNight, Tony Commisso and Dale Gutherum-Goss. Wraps have interesting tax and accounting issues.

Many professionals (and experienced amateurs) eventually need to focus on business and limit the time they spend on non-productive activities. Left unchecked, answering newbie wrap questions leaves no time for making money. This is especially discouraging as most newbies never do anything with the information. I've had this converation over the the years with Tony Cordato, Rick Otten, Bruce Whiting and others. Even Jan Somers laments the fact that only 30% of a room will ever do anything with the info. $330 hopefully means you'll take a shot at applying it.

This thread also belongs in Innovative Techniques (in my opinion). But it may benefit others in the General forum
Dear Paul,

Yes I am looking at the back of my copy of "Money secrets of the rich". Bruce Whiting -Managing Partner of MGI Wamstekers.


1) Public Relationship

The Mint Group P/L does not publicly show any relationship with MGI Wamstekers P/L. Phonenumber is different and MGI Wamstekers have their own website.

Any organisation with credibility will normally mention it's parent company even if it is a division, subsidiary or just "affliated with".

In this case there is none of that so how can it be separated from the sharks that do exist out there?

In my view credibility is important and I still believe that the current mint group website does not instill confidence.

2) Sorting the wheat from the chaff

In all businesses you will get tyre-kickers. It is an unfortunate fact that prices charged to "paying" customers have to be increased to factor in and pay for the company resources used by "tyre-kicking" customers.

However at what point does a customer change? I agree that you have to limit the amount of resources that are devoted to the "tyre-kicking" customers, but any business that does not have new inquiries and potential customers coming in is dying.

Today I made inquiries for getting the guttering replaced on one of my rental properties. As a rule of thumb I like to get three quotes on jobs to ensure it is not only cost effective but a quality job. One of the companies I rang up wanted to charge myself $50 just to give a quote when the other two I had already made appointments with would be free.

Did I blatantly accept the charge in order to get the quote? No. I rang another company to come out to give a quote and they lost the potential opportunity to do business with myself.

If you sell a product you do not give it away for free because you lose your livelihood. However giving away free but useful bait in order to get the potential followup order is practical and makes business sense. (Take the practical reasons Michael Yardney promotes his "Property Investment" newsletter to members. This "free" newletter costs Michael money to produce. It is distributed free because of the plan that potential customers will use Michaels services in the future on which he will then make a profit. (By the way I am not trying to single Michael out. It is a great newsletter and this is indirectly done by many members on this forum. I actually believe the forum is greater because of this.)

Again I stand by what I said in my previous post. Mint Group are not just selling a seminar. If it was just a seminar it would be marketed as one.


The breadth of "hands off" investment products dreamed up by slick, well-meaning-or-not professional investment companies never ceases to amaze me. It's a product of the times perhaps -- lots of cashed up baby boomers with no more kids to support. Paul was correct when he says its a business -- but its not your business, its Bruce Whiting's or someone else's. You are simply their consumer, and they profit from your subscription fees, commisions and ongoing management fees if you invest any money.

The template for these schemes is generally the same -- you put in your capital and you get a return, but generally not a return that adequately compensates you for the risk exposure to your capital. It seems a sad fact that many people do not fully understand what investments they are in until something goes wrong. Management companies skim off fees and bonuses when things are going well but you are 100% exposed if things go pear-shaped. For all we know, the Mint Group could be taking your hard earned capital, doing great wrap deals and paying you a reasonable return (maybe even guaranteed) and pocketing the rest -- so they have no money down and a tidy positive cashflow.

Now this is OK (not begrudging their profitable business so long as they practice ethically) if you are not willing to invest some time and effort in your own financial education, and gullible enough to put your money into an investment you don't fully understand. There is always money to be made in marketing "magic bullet" solutions. But I do not believe anyone contributing to this forum would be in this category!