The Rule of Unintended Consequences

So ANZ announced their decision yesterday as outlined in other threads.

As Marty (I think it was Marty) pointed out, with the increased rate over and above the reserve, ANZ will more than make up for doing away with exit fees of $700, fees that were probably only paid by 30% of mortgagors anyway, will now be paid by everyone via a higher interest rate.

ANZ also announced a discounted 3 year fixed rate loan.

So with the political pressure to get rid of deferred establishment fees, fees that were GENERALLY higher for the non-bank lenders anyway, I think the following consequences will apply:
1. Variable interest rates will be permanently a little bit higher, to make sure the banks recoup the cost of opening a mortgage within the first 12 or 18 months.
2. 3 and 5 year fixed rates will start to become more competitive as banks look for ways to rope clients in for a longer term. This will reduce a clients flexibility to sell, refinance, or pay more off.
3. Broker commissions, or clawback policies, or both, could be adjusted to reflect the costs of clients who refinance ofter.
4. As smaller banks generally charged more for these DEF's, they will potentially be less competitive, i.e. will need to charge a higher interest rate to make up for the reduction in the fee they can charge.

As alway when politics gets in the way of a relatively free market, they make one change, when really the whole system needs to be looked at in total, and then they screw it up.

Just like the tax debacle. 130 changes recommended, they make 2, screw them up, change them to keep a minority happy, then they can't pass it in parliament anyway...
 
1. Variable interest rates will be permanently a little bit higher, to make sure the banks recoup the cost of opening a mortgage within the first 12 or 18 months.

why do you think thye have to recoup anything? they can charge whatever they like without fear or consequence, so they would have shoved the rate up anyway. and probaby will again... who can stop them?
 
why do you think thye have to recoup anything? they can charge whatever they like without fear or consequence, so they would have shoved the rate up anyway. and probaby will again... who can stop them?

Well yesterday they could make $700 and today they can't, so they will make the $700 through other means. As you say, nobody can stop them, so their profits won't decline, they will just make them through other means, which means putting up rates.

However as to the question Why do they have to recoup anything? I believe there is a real cost to setting up a new loan for a new customer, with credit checking, doc prep, settlement etc, and that needs to be paid somewhere. Whether a standard app fee of $600 is enough to cover that, or whether it costs more, I'm not sure.

Personally I just want the lowest rate possible, then I won't care about the fees, because I won't pay them. I'm keeping my houses for 10 years plus, so DEF's wouldn't worry me if their rates were kept nice and low.
 
ok - I put up a similar argument against what I read on here often... "interest rates are going up, oh well that's fine I will just put my rents up $5 a week"... well if you could do that without consequence then why didn't you do that whether IRs went up or not?

Now the banks really are free to do as they will with their retail prices, but I guess they are constrained by the embarassment of the huge size of their "profit" (the term "profit" used loosely because traditionally you have to undertake RISK to earn a profit). so from that point of view you are right... they determine how muchthey want to declare as dividend and then work backwards to determien what they will charge borrowers, so yes if the fixed fee is abolished then it will be recouped some other way.

so ok we agree :) However the materiality of the exit fees expressed as an actual % rate is probably very small, albeit something.
 
so ok we agree :) However the materiality of the exit fees expressed as an actual % rate is probably very small, albeit something.

Yes I think we do agree, and I agree that the actual % rate would be small. My point here is this: In the last 12 months NAB removed a lot of the small fees, reference fees, exception fees, credit card overlimits etc. I spoke to an employee (not a teller, a senior business banking manager) who told me that cost them $200 million.

Without debating the social benefit or otherwise of such fees (because that could go on all day) I would prefer they keep those fees in there and lower the interest rates on their home loans. Preferably interest only home loans for people who have property in the northern suburbs of the Perth metropolitan area, that would work out best for me...

My point here is, like any other business, if they are offering a "discount", they will be making up that discount in other areas. Most likely they will be making it up in business banking, because the small businesses are the ones really getting screwed at the moment, but there is a chance my rate could be lower if these fees stayed in.

I don't pay the fees, so I prefer they charge other people the fees and leave my interest rate the best in the market...

Not that i'm selfish or anything...
 
ok - I put up a similar argument against what I read on here often... "interest rates are going up, oh well that's fine I will just put my rents up $5 a week"... well if you could do that without consequence then why didn't you do that whether IRs went up or not?

Yeah; I've seen this stated here a few times, and it makes me wonder;

We have only 12 monthly leases on our joints that we rent out - occasionally a 6 monthly, and we are ourselves in a 6 monthly lease currently.

I haven't ever put up our tenants' rent on a whim because of a rate rise - the lease prohibits that, and we have not had arbitrary rent hikes on the place we live in either. Yearly rises as you'd expect and that's about it.

Maybe the statement is simply to try and impress others??

The only time I can envisage someone being able to do it is if you have a month-to-month lease, or maybe a short term lease for a student etc.

I wonder if those same people who can hike up their rents willy-nilly ever have issues with renter turnover?
 
My take is that DEFs help the NBLs look more competitive than they actually are. Removing them universally will only increase the market strength of the Big 4.
 
why do you think they have to recoup anything?

Exactly, also, why isn't the loan establishment cost the bank's cost for doing business?

Every other business has employees issuing quotes and trying to win a job and when they win it they have to setup the contract free of charge.
This is no different to what a bank does. i.e providing a product which will make them money.

Why should the banks be priviledged over any other business and charge for what they should be providing for free?
 
yeah this will hurt the small banks more. with abolishment of DEF, smaller lenders have to adjust rates higher to compensate for the higher DEF they have compared to the banks .'. they are less competitive with banks, lose market share and the cycle continues...
 
Westpac and ANZ have now both come out with "Special" 3 year fixed rates, in an attempt to lock clients in without worrying about DEF's.

Most western countries have a much higher percentage of fixed rate loans in their mortgage lending, I think one of the consequences of the current government drivel will be more fixed rates.

Not necessarily a bad thing for the average punter, but definitely results in reduced flexibility and potential for damaging exit costs.
 
Special Offers1 Rates
1 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 2.500%
4 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 3.790%
5 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 3.790%
5 Year Fixed Rate Green Mortgage 4.190%
5 Year Closed Variable Rate Mortgage 2.850%
7 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 4.750%
10 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 5.090%

I'm hoping when we return to Canada next year, I will be still able to take advantage of these rates, my bank is posting now.
I have a mortgage that need refinanced May 2011
 
Checked the Westpac site to see if they had a "special 3 yr rate" but couldn't see anything :confused:

Not that it means much to me as we locked in at 6.99% for 3 yrs, I did notice that this is now 7.49% and goes up to 7.79% for 4yrs , 7.89% for 5 yrs and 8.29% for 8 through to 12 years
 
Special Offers1 Rates
5 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 3.790%
5 Year Fixed Rate Green Mortgage 4.190%
5 Year Closed Variable Rate Mortgage 2.850%
7 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 4.750%
10 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 5.090%
I'm hoping when we return to Canada next year, I will be still able to take advantage of these rates, my bank is posting now.
I'm jealous....:D
 
Special Offers1 Rates
1 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 2.500%
4 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 3.790%
5 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 3.790%
5 Year Fixed Rate Green Mortgage 4.190%
5 Year Closed Variable Rate Mortgage 2.850%
7 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 4.750%
10 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 5.090%

I'm hoping when we return to Canada next year, I will be still able to take advantage of these rates, my bank is posting now.
I have a mortgage that need refinanced May 2011

that makes me wanna puke.
 
Special Offers1 Rates
1 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 2.500%
4 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 3.790%
5 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 3.790%
5 Year Fixed Rate Green Mortgage 4.190%
5 Year Closed Variable Rate Mortgage 2.850%
7 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 4.750%
10 Year Fixed Rate Mortgage 5.090%
even better... UBS Swiss Franc mortgages
2 yr 1.70%
3 yr 1.92%
4 yr 2.15%
5 yr 2.37%
10 yr 3.06%
 
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