Today I became a criminal

Sometimes you are thrown to the other side of the fence and realise what everyone else has been complaining about, earlier this week was that day for me.

I have had plenty of dealings with agents for many years, I even was one for a few years. But, my dealings from the "customer" side were limited to buying. This week I decided that I want to rent in the Sydney market.

Was it too much to ask for the application forms in advance so that I could fill them out in case the property I was due to inspect was "the one"? I swear that I haven't done any prison time, so stop treating me like a criminal!

Unanswered emails, nobody to help answer my queries on the phone (and when they did, they were very rude!), no flexibility with inspection times, bidding above advertised prices.

This won't be a surprise to many on here who rent, but for me it was one hell of a shock and makes me want to keep a closer eye on my property managers to make sure that if my property is vacant and someone makes an enquiry, that they at least respond!

ps: The hunt continues :)
 
Yep sometimes it just sucks to be a tenant. I have been a tenant, a landlord, a property manager and a principal overseeing property managers.

My advice - make it easy for the property manager, ie complete all details on application forms, include all ID, be nice -even if they are not.

Busy PMs can get multiple application forms, the path of least resistance is tempting in this job.

Most are beyond stressed, there is an average 3 month total burnout in the industry - not trying to justify, just giving you a point of view from the other side which may be helpful (or not)
 
Yep sometimes it just sucks to be a tenant. I have been a tenant, a landlord, a property manager and a principal overseeing property managers.

My advice - make it easy for the property manager, ie complete all details on application forms, include all ID, be nice -even if they are not.

Busy PMs can get multiple application forms, the path of least resistance is tempting in this job.

Most are beyond stressed, there is an average 3 month total burnout in the industry - not trying to justify, just giving you a point of view from the other side which may be helpful (or not)

Wow that's not a good sign is it?

LOL Buildingblocks about "Was it too much to ask for the application forms in advance so that I could fill them out in case the property I was due to inspect was "the one"? I swear that I haven't done any prison time, so stop treating me like a criminal!
 
Jaycee, the reason so many burn out (IMO) is that we get treated like absolute ***** by some people, which is why some PMs turn sour after a few months/years or why they get out when they can.

As for the application form, have they got one online? Most agents do, although some reason not giving out the application prior to inspection is because people don't think about the property over night - then, when they do some pull out after the PM and admin girls have already taken the property off the market, knocked back other applications, called all the unsuccessful people and prepared all the leases and tenant info.

And the inspections can usually be based on enquiry, you may find if a PM has 50 enquries on a property, they won't conduct private inspections. Then again, if there's only 10 they may work a time around you. It's not fair, but it happens.

Just make sure when you do apply for a rental property you have everything prepared, don't ask to use the photocopier (pet hate), have as much info on the form and make sure all contact numbers are correct.

At the inspections be nice, even when they're not, if there's not too many people have a quick chat so they know who you are, but if there's 20 odd people say hi, ask maybe a quick question if you need to. But don't try to talk, talk, talk, many don't appreciate it when they're trying to get names and numbers from other people - it may not work in your favour.
 
I know a guy who had a number of properties in one suburb. For some reason they all rented fast except one. Turned out the PM simply decided to stop handing on applications. Once he found out and she was shown the door it rented fast.
 
We found a similar issue when we first moved to Sydney and rented. We wanted a longterm lease (3 years) and were advised that we had to rent the property for 6 months before the LL would agree. That's fine no issue.

Six months goes by and we contact the PM. After two months of regularly following up we get a notice to vacate as apparently the LL is coming back from overseas and wants to move in. Not happy Jan.

As we had the ability to buy we advised the PM that we would not be able to vacate until we settled on another property. Not a happy PM.

Went to pay the rent for the period beyond notice to vactae and settlement (about three weeks) and the PM refused to accept the payment stating that as we 'must' vacate in accordance with the notice.

Having our own rentals we knew it would have to go to tribunal and that by the time it did we would have vacated. Explained this to the PM but they still would not accept payment. We stated that if they did not accept payment now, we would not be making a payment later. Still no go.

They then tried to get a payment after the notice date and we refused. We left when our property settled and they kept the bond. They ended up ahead but considering the BS from the LL, chances are we wouldn't have seen the bond anyway.

The PM probably thought we were ******** tenants however the issue arose because either the LL was dishonest about their intentions for the property or the PM never informed them of our request for a longterm lease. Either way I'd rather buy than rent any day.
 
As for the application form, have they got one online? Most agents do, although some reason not giving out the application prior to inspection is because people don't think about the property over night - then, when they do some pull out after the PM and admin girls have already taken the property off the market, knocked back other applications, called all the unsuccessful people and prepared all the leases and tenant info.

The most frustrating one didn't have any of the forms available online. They state on their website that they are only able to hand out the forms at open houses. Just like everyone else here I would expect that being prepared and having all my forms and documentation ready would be a plus! I am the type of person who is 100% prepared beforehand and then moves fast.

There was a special "employment confirmation" form that they request is completed. As I was expecting to be interstate next week I sent them a pleasant email asking if they could send me just this form, so that I could complete it before this weekend, as I would not be in the office next week and they state that all applications must be received by 9:30am Monday morning. Another email with no response!

I'll find something eventually, I just feel for the landlords. There have been 2 properties this week so far that I am 95% confident I would have signed for on the spot if given the chance of an inspection.

Some good news though, I spoke with one agent this morning from a very small agency (only a couple of rentals available at the moment) who was very pleasant and is organising a private inspection for me. I will be sure to sing their praises on here if things keep going this well with them.

My other thoughts on the rental process compared to buying:

Photos. Listings should require more than 1 photo. I understand that often tenants are in place so this can be difficult, but trying to judge whether or not I am interested in a property based on a Google streetview photo is a waste of time. This week I visited a townhouse listed as having a "modern" kitchen. Maybe in the 1970's.

Floorplans seem to be non-existant on rentals, yet are the first thing I look for when I am buying. I remember these costing around $300 when I was an agent almost 10yrs ago, however a basic mock-up with rough layout completed by the agent (with suitable notice saying these are estimates). I lucked out last night when I found another townhouse for sale in the same block that I am looking who have a floorplan. Even if not feasible, tell me the rough dimensions of the kitchen, lounge and bedrooms.

Standardised application form and documentation This is something that should be looked at by the REI. I would like to see a standard application form along with a standard set of supporting documentation required.

Some things don't change, such as a payslip and copies of licenses etc. But there have also been varying items such as special "employment confirmation forms" and "personal references". What a waste of time a personal reference is, if I was dodgy I would just tell my friend the story they need to tell!

This would take a lot of the pain out of the process and increase the percentage of completed applications. I don't see why the application process has not be standardised when the lease forms generally have been.

If these changes were made the benefits would be:
Reduction in workload for agents. People will have a greater understanding of the quality and layout of the property. They will have a greater chance of determining if it meets their needs before phoning the agent or attending an open for inspection. This may then open up the possibility of increased "appointment" inspections as agents time frees up.
Increased customer sat. Prospective tenants will be greater informed and far less frustrated. They will only require a single set of supporting documentation and will just change the property and lease details on the standardised application form.
Faster process. Lower vacancy rates. A streamlined process means no stuffing around going back and forth asking questions about the property.

These are some points which I will be keeping in mind when one of my properties is next looking for a new tenant and should help to reduce my vacancy rates.

I will continue to update this thread as my search continues. At least I am doing something productive with my frustration!
 
Either way I'd rather buy than rent any day.

To avoid the frustration of "not knowing" I can completely understand that. We are under 30 and have no dependents, so moving around a bit for the next few years won't be too much of a nightmare.

In the end the reason why we have decided to rent rather than buy comes down to the numbers.

Without considering strata rates etc, $500/wk would service a P&I loan of maybe somewhere around $300-350k. For that $500/wk we are looking at property valued at just over $600k, due to the low rentals returns in the area.

To counter the lost CG we will look to put our deposit money (we were looking to buy for just over a year) into another IP in a different area with betters returns :)

...the plan sure doesn't help my current frustration though!
 
Have you considered renting from a private LL?

On our website, the applicant can submit it directly, or print it off and bring with them. We can also provide an application to be filled out, if they do not have access to the internet.
We try to make it as easy as we can.
We show the property when the applicant wants to see it.We generally do not have scheduled inspection times. If we have more than one interested party, we have them consecutively..so they can all have individual attention.

Our job when we have a vacancy coming up, is to get it rented.
 
I'm not fussed at all who is renting it out, as long as they advertise on Domain or RealEstate.com.au so that I can find the ad!

You might find it better to look in the newspaper for private adverts. Until just recently, that was the only place (or one of the only places) we could advertise.

If the crowd is looking on re.com you might snag something on the path less travelled.
 
Was it too much to ask for the application forms in advance so that I could fill them out in case the property I was due to inspect was "the one"? I swear that I haven't done any prison time, so stop treating me like a criminal!

Unanswered emails, nobody to help answer my queries on the phone (and when they did, they were very rude!), no flexibility with inspection times, bidding above advertised prices.

Ha, know what you mean mate - went through this rigmarole middle of last year. Unbelievable - you'd swear half the PM's didn't actually want to lease these places. If these were my PM's I would have been horrified - places empty for over a month and I ring to say I'm interested and ready to move in tomorrow and I get stuff like "can you call back later" or they don't want to talk to you at all and their whole side of the conversations consists of "fill out an application form" - I'm sorry, is it alright if I just find out a couple of details on the place before I waste yours and my time? Begrudgingly offer me a few two word answers to my questions... :eek:

After a few days of this I got fed up and just called one of my PM's.

"Mate, what have you got?"
"I still reckon you'll like this one I'm showing tonight between 5:30-5:45" (he already offered it to me a week earlier but I had an app. in elsewhere)
"See you there"
..........
"Looks good mate, want me to fill in an application"
"Nah Steve, it's yours"

Not what you know but who you know.
 
BB - I share your pain. I wrote before on SS about the contrast between being a renter and a buyer. Night and day.

We have decided to buy simply because this renting nonsense is just a nightmare - although we'd actually prefer to be long term renters. We can make way more on our capital than property in the current climate.

But the world of renting in Australia with amateur owners and idiot PM's running about like chickens without heads just isn't worth it.

I like your suggestions for a uniform application form. But it's so logical that no one in the industry will take any notice.
 
There are other sites to view..how about Gumtree?

That's where I'm advertising, but customers shouldnt have to look there only to avoid the majority of rentals on the makret cause of staff whose job it is to rent the property too make it difficult ! Last time however, depsite gumtree giving me heaps of enquiries and inspections, I still had to advertise in The West Australian newspaper which is where I my tenant from in the end..

But, I have jsut today filled out a new gumtree ad... anyone intersted in a 3x2 villa Balga WA ?
 
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*snip*
Floorplans seem to be non-existant on rentals, yet are the first thing I look for when I am buying. I remember these costing around $300 when I was an agent almost 10yrs ago, however a basic mock-up with rough layout completed by the agent (with suitable notice saying these are estimates). I lucked out last night when I found another townhouse for sale in the same block that I am looking who have a floorplan. Even if not feasible, tell me the rough dimensions of the kitchen, lounge and bedrooms.
*snip*

I agree with most of your points, but not this one. $300 is often a week's rent, or more. On top of letting fees, etc, I, for one, wouldn't be paying this one.
 
After a few days of this I got fed up and just called one of my PM's.

Unfortunately I don't own property in the area where I want to live, or that would have been my first call too :)

The dramas continued after my post earlier today. The nice agent called back to say that the property had sold today, I didn't even know it was listed for sale!

However, it seems as though one from earlier this week is starting to get a bit more desperate and emailed me saying "please come tomorrow to the open house" and he will hopefully give me a yes/no on an application on Monday.

Fingers still crossed, but at some point it all just becomes a bit of a laugh...

Time to look at Gumtree too, thanks for that tip!
 
Wifey, I and the two kids are renting a $1.5 mil house for $670 / week...shocking return for the LL lol! Securing a place was a true nightmare though we were filling in applications left right and centre with some agencies wanting the most ludicrous paperwork and generally shockingly rude service from the pm's. Being self employed starting a new business at the time didn't help I suppose, even though we offered proof of equity in other properties and 12 months rent in advance we were only accepted when the pm of one property we looked at was told to give it to use or lose the $2.2 mil listing the agency had with my brother in law. Just lucky we had that leverage otherwise I don't know what would have happened. It's great motivation to buy a ppr being made to feel like that!! Just so bad as an investment decision around here with yields of about 2% gross ( not that I suppose that matters if you are living in it, but goes against the grain if you know what I mean).
 
Right then, I'm getting the pms in our office to fill the white boards with "we LOVE tenants, we LOVE tenants, we LOVE tenants....

Seriously though, I agree more respect needs to be shown and especially when tenants have as much a chance as becoming landlords as everyone else.
 
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