USB charger causing death

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RetireRich101

Just thinking out aloud, that this headline below is one of the reason I would ensure every of my property rented out has safety switch, smoke alarms and meets all electrical compliant.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/warning-o...om-apparent-electrocution-20140626-zsngd.html

Having a safety switch/circuit breaker may/may not save above story but at least it stops authority chasing your tail when it does happen, because you did what you can to confirm compliance

Yes, it is a mandatory law in most/all states to have this compliance, but I am sure you know few Landlord are ignoring this.
 
Scott No Mates said:
But it is not retrospective - if you haven't modified your switchboard, there is no need to install one.
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There's a difference between what you can be fined for (failing to meet a statutory obligation), and what needs to be done to fulfill your (common law) duty of care. Just because you can't be fined for not having a safety switch, doesn't mean that, as a landlord, you wouldn't be found negligent and responsible for the deaths of your tenants if they died in an electrical fire, and you didn't have a safety switch.
 
Perp said:
There's a difference between what you can be fined for (failing to meet a statutory obligation), and what needs to be done to fulfill your (common law) duty of care. Just because you can't be fined for not having a safety switch, doesn't mean that, as a landlord, you wouldn't be found negligent and responsible for the deaths of your tenants if they died in an electrical fire, and you didn't have a safety switch.
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Failing to comply with a standard which only requires the service to be upgraded when altered is not a failure to comply or meet your duty of care.

Referring to AS3000/2007, Clause 1.9.3 states ? Every alteration of, or addition to, an electrical installation shall be deemed to be a new electrical installation, and all provisions of this standard shall apply to every such addition or alteration?.
 
Scott No Mates said:
Failing to comply with a standard which only requires the service to be upgraded when altered is not a failure to comply or meet your duty of care.
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Are you a lawyer? Can you provide a source for this assertion?

Of what relevance do you think that the AS is to the common law duty of care?
 
If the BCA tells you that you the design and installation must comply with the AS/NZS, there has been no mandate to install the works retrospectively, you would be standing on pretty solid ground.
 
Scott No Mates said:
If the BCA tells you that you the design and installation must comply with the AS/NZS, there has been no mandate to install the works retrospectively, you would be standing on pretty solid ground.
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This is inconsistent with what I've learned in the university unit I just completed on negligence, where we were taught that compliance with statutory standards is not dispositive of lack of fault in an action in negligence. (I would also have felt that it probably would be, before studying this unit.)

But perhaps they taught us a simplistic view and we'll learn a more nuanced view as the course proceeds. That's why I'm keen to know whether you have a source for this belief, or if it's just what you understand as a non-lawyer, or whether you've been sued and successfully used statutory compliance as a defence.
 
Perp said:
This is inconsistent with what I've learned in the university unit I just completed on negligence, where we were taught that compliance with statutory standards is not dispositive of lack of fault in an action in negligence. (I would also have felt that it probably would be, before studying this unit.)

But perhaps they taught us a simplistic view and we'll learn a more nuanced view as the course proceeds. That's why I'm keen to know whether you have a source for this belief, or if it's just what you understand as a non-lawyer, or whether you've been sued and successfully used statutory compliance as a defence.
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Keep reading Perp - I am no expert, nor have a legal background but have managed $B's worth of assets over the years.

My few years of legal studies was mostly contract law, tort, some negligence, secret commissions etc all taught by a silk (who was my supervisor for my thesis).

Have a read of this one: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UTasLawRw/2001/8.pdf. A few of my favourite judges appear at various stages in this document with their ratios - Kirby J, Brennan CJ.
 
Lot of that sort of stuff coming in these days.

Seen some LED Lights that had been imported (ebay)with no earth and a metal case with 240v. Non-compliant and given the way a taped up circuit board was inside unsafe.


I'm struggling to understand how it got through the phone however. The burn marks described sound more like a lightning strike has hit building.
 
Wasn't someone sued for not having the right type of glass in a door. Wouldn't take the chance. Safety switches are mandatory in some states if renting out the property.
 
Doovalacky said:
I'm struggling to understand how it got through the phone however. The burn marks described sound more like a lightning strike has hit building.
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Getting through the phone is probably the easy bit, once you have a breakdown in the AC/DC separation of the USB brick and so it puts 240V on the DC side, its going to liven your phone up at 240V, from there its just a matter of finding a return path.
 
bumskins said:
Wasn't someone sued for not having the right type of glass in a door.
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They were (Jones v Bartlett), but the award to the tenant was overturned on appeal.

These types of cases can go either way, depending on the specifics of the case. In that case, it was relevant that there was no evidence that the landlord would have known that the type of glass in the door was unsafe, or that it could be known by a non-expert how dangerous the glass was, and there's no obligation to have premises inspected for safety by an expert, etc.

As the utility of having an electrical safety switch is widely known, and it's obvious whether you have one or not, I think lack of a safety switch may be viewed differently, and a prudent landlord would have one installed.
 
I just had some electrical work done, and you can now buy combined circuit breakers and RCD: that is, each circuit breaker has an RCD built into it. My sparky said the price for these was peanuts more than the ordinary ones, and saved him installing a separate RCD.

It also means that each circuit is independent, so if the kids are making toast in the bath (again) it won't interrupt the people watching TV in the pool. :)
 
A rcd isn't go to protect you from getting in between active and neutral.

Only active and earth. Also make sure you use the test button on your rcd's regularly as we have found if not tested the trip time can increase in some cases.

Should be 200/300 ms at rated current
40 ms at 500 %
(For 30ma)

We have found this time can drastically increase on some breakers and once they have been tripped they work fine from there on. 5 seconds work may save your life.
 
This story sent a shiver down my spine...

A few years ago, my wife and I were interstate visiting her parents. We were due to fly back home and I went to use my Mother-In-Law's new laptop to check in online.

I was sitting on the floor and it was sitting on the floor in front of me. I picked it up from its underside. I immediately felt an unbelievably intense shooting pain into both wrists, up both arms and across the back of my shoulders. I started screaming in pain, knowing I was being electrocuted, but with the spasming that came with it, I couldn't physically let go of the laptop.

I forced myself to stand up and lean forward and gravity helped dislodge the laptop out of my grasp. I then collapsed to the ground and the next thing I remember was seeing my wife, mother-in-law and a doctor staring down at me as I was sprawled across the floor.

My MIL returned the laptop to the store the next day. It was a "known" brand of laptop and the company told her that what had happened to me was a "physical impossibility", but the burn scars on my wrists and the fact that my left arm lost all usage for a week and took six months to regain full sensation says otherwise.

One of the scariest moments of my life...
 
jameso said:
A rcd isn't go to protect you from getting in between active and neutral.

Only active and earth....
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There is a difference between earth leakage detectors and residual current devices. RCDs measure the current between active and neutral and trip if there is a difference. Much more sensitive, and safer. One saved my life earlier this year when I touched a damaged cable on a electric plane. I now only use extension cords with RCDs built into them.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-1-8m-heavy-duty-extension-lead_p4420164

AFAIK RCDs are the standard now.
 
vaughan said:
There is a difference between earth leakage detectors and residual current devices. RCDs measure the current between active and neutral and trip if there is a difference. Much more sensitive, and safer. One saved my life earlier this year when I touched a damaged cable on a electric plane. I now only use extension cords with RCDs built into them.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/arlec-1-8m-heavy-duty-extension-lead_p4420164

AFAIK RCDs are the standard now.
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Rcd's work off earth leakage. When 30ma difference is detected it trips. Normally trip around 25 ma.

If you touch active and neutral your stuffed. Rcd won't help you.

Great info for anyone renovating or using power tools.

http://www.allstatesafety.com.au/services/rcd-residual-current-device-safety-switch/
 
Jameso is correct in that if you are standing on something like lino and touch active/neutral as far as the RCD is concerned you are just another appliance.
Which is why the earthing system is so critical. RCD's are great but are not the universal shield some people think.

RCD's or RCD/MCB's run at about $30 these days.
Straight MCB (over current only) are about $4.
Lot better to have individual RCD's for every circuit but when clients/builders demand cheapest possible price its cheaper to throw in the minimum 2 RCD's.
 
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