Using a buy & hold strategy, in how many years did you reach financial independence?

Using a buy & hold strategy, in how many years did you reach financial independence?


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Just realised you posted the how....he he....

Well technically this is a hybrid strategy ;)...I plan to use this. The plan is to have a portfolio that generates say 100-150k CF+. Sometimes due to unforeseen expenses...or some bad months I will dip into offsets. But overall the LVR needs to be 50% or less for this to work.

I also plan to do 1-2 renos/flips every year..so that will be enough to earn another say 50-150k per annum.

Buy & Hold for financial independence is not a short term investment, rather a long term one and needs to be structured accordingly.

Nothing is risk free, no matter what the investment. One should always work towards maximising cash flows and minimising risks whenever possible.

As such, one method to minimise exposure risk in relation harvesting of capital growth for the purpose of LOE is to structure one?s portfolio so as to provide more than sufficient funds to maintain their chosen level of lifestyle for a period 10 years or over and have those funds already approved, secured and available for ready access.

For example, with a $4 Million 65% LVR portfolio, structured for CG and cash flow neutral/+ , with a chosen lifestyle budget of $1000 income tax free per week (equiv to $1280 Gross payg) the calculation would look like this ?

$1000 x 52 weeks = $52k.
$52k x 10 years = 520k.
Interest on Interest component for $52k per year over the decade @ say 6.5% avg = $90k
Secured equity required for LOE across the decade = $610k (520k + 90k).

Portfolio Position starting LOE.
Value $4,000,000 less $2,610,000 ($2,000,000 (50%LVR) + $610,000 credit limit secured for progressive draw down of $52k per year over the following 10 years ( 15% LVR )) = TOTAL $1,390,000 equity (65% LVR )

Portfolio Position after 10 Years of LOE.
Value $8,000,000 less $2,610,000 (debt) = TOTAL $5,390,000 equity (17% LVR)

So let's now look at an example on the cash flow component and use a very conservative 5% rental yield on the $4,000,000 asset base, with a 6.5% bank interest rate, starting the LOE harvesting phase.

$4,000.000 x 5% = $200,000 rental income.
$2,000,000 (debt) x 6.5% = $130,000 +( $3,300 p/a interest on the $52k LOE per year)compounding for 10 years.

At the completion of 10 years Portfolio Value = $8,000,000 with debt TOTAL of $2,610,000 x 6.5% bank interest = $169,650.
$8,000,000 x 5% conservative rental yield = $400,000.
$400,000 minus $169,650 = $230,350 cash flow positive.

Property investing / Portfolio building is not about property - it's about finance! Property is merely what banks take hold over as security for loaning you the finance in the first instance. As such, financially structuring oneself correctly so as to place yourself a position of being able to continually access funds whenever you need/want is vital - whether it be for investment/business and/or lifestyle.

You need to have the foresight to plan ahead years in advance. You don?t want to paint yourself into the proverbial DSR corner with no options left to go - it's too late then.

However, let's play devils advocate and after 10 years say you don't meet bank DSR requirements for LOC credit limit top ups for the next 10 year round - you can always sell down a portion to pay out the $2,610,000 debt and see out your remaining days LOR with a $5,390,000 mortgage free property portfolio (less selling costs).

One of the LOE advantages people don't realise is once you're financially structured correctly you only need sufficient cash flow to cover the interest component on your lifestyle & portfolio holding expenses, and not the actual lifestyle & portfolio expenses themselves.

As such it allows the option, should one elect to, exit the rat with financial independence years earlier in comparison to waiting for sufficient positive cash flow from rental income.

It's a totally different paradigm than most of society is accustomed to. The poor/middle class are raised within a cash for income paradigm, where as the wealthy are raised within a capital for income paradigm.
 
So much inspiration in this great thread, folks!

Great insights to similar but different strategies across the group of stories shared. Helps me to define my own 'end-game' strategy a little better in pursuit of that great 6-figure per year passive income per year goal!
 
Yep...spot on.....the cashbond I think caught a few people out.

I think Rixter might be one of the few who has made a go of LOE...would be curious to see how he is going?

The real beauty is once you have a $10m plus portfolio...you can set your life on coast and collect about 100k in net income per year...if you have an LVR of 50% or less.

Haven't read the whole posts but you are spot on....
There a number of factors that play a role to do this correctly, I know of a person that lives off that way....
However, the size of the portfolio in $ terms, the relative LVR, the locations and type of properties, demonstrating running the business, are just some of the factors that play a vital role in making it work.
Of course in addition people have other buffers in place, offsets, SMSF, even perhaps share portfolios, so if we have a varied sources of income than that's the main thing!
I plan to have similar strategy to Rixter with other buffers in place, but since we are still earning we also like to add renovations now to this game! Also I am thinking of cleaning up some of the bad eggs while I can!
So yes, it is a different cup of tea or coffee for everyone, right?:)
 
What I am saying is that, because I target properties with a higher cashflow, that I think we've arrived at the same destination, in a similar time frame, but I won't be using the equity for living expenses.

Somehow I doubt this statement can be true as I read some where of comparison of say 4% yield and 10% CG, compared with 10% yield and 4% CG, and there results differed hugely over 20 year period...

Also, from positive cash flow tax needs to be paid each year, whereas no tax from CG unless you sell (however land tax may creep in sooner...). This in turn provides less deposit in accumulation phase for the next one, whereas more CG could release the equity faster to purchase the next one. So there are other ways.

However, as you say Skater, the equity strategy is very risky as number of factors play a role, so we all stick to our own, right?
Good luck and let's stay in touch and update this thread in 10 years time, I would be interested to hear how we moved along???:)
 
I think Rixter might be one of the few who has made a go of LOE...would be curious to see how he is going?

Actually Landlubber? was LOE, had I think perhaps 23 properties? not sure, but decent size portfolio, shares and SMSF. He did this for xx years but found that it was difficult so he tweaked it, perhaps sold down. May want to read his posts on this, was very interesting.

LOE was promoted by many property gurus many years ago, however bank policies changed and suddenly no more lo docs/no docs and pretty much overnight this strategy was mothballed. Going down this route means you are at the mercy of banks.

Anyway, all to their own.

MTR:)
 
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Yep...when you are planning to live off income...make sure you have a diversified income base not only on property locations but also other assets such as shares and cash.

Seen to many people take a leap of faith based on a theory and get into trouble. As they say in navy make sure you have the counter measures in the water before the torpedo hits.

Haven't read the whole posts but you are spot on....
There a number of factors that play a role to do this correctly, I know of a person that lives off that way....
However, the size of the portfolio in $ terms, the relative LVR, the locations and type of properties, demonstrating running the business, are just some of the factors that play a vital role in making it work.
Of course in addition people have other buffers in place, offsets, SMSF, even perhaps share portfolios, so if we have a varied sources of income than that's the main thing!
I plan to have similar strategy to Rixter with other buffers in place, but since we are still earning we also like to add renovations now to this game! Also I am thinking of cleaning up some of the bad eggs while I can!
So yes, it is a different cup of tea or coffee for everyone, right?:)


Similar portfolio to mine at the moment. Would love to hear how Landlubber is going with this now?

MTR...you are spot on about banks. People sometimes forget that property is the vehicle...the main game is the finance side which is all about banks and their credit policies. You need to be able to out flank then when required.
Actually Landlubber? was LOE, had I think perhaps 23 properties? not sure, but decent size portfolio, shares and SMSF. He did this for xx years but found that it was difficult so he tweaked it, perhaps sold down. May want to read his posts on this, was very interesting.

LOE was promoted by many property gurus many years ago, however bank policies changed and suddenly no more lo docs/no docs and pretty much overnight this strategy was mothballed. Going down this route means you are at the mercy of banks.

Anyway, all to their own.

MTR:)
 
LOE is such a risky strategy. I've never refinanced anything in my life except once to do the killer deal of a lifetime. That's kept me LVR well below 50% in these kinds of markets and with rent growth and inflation, good cashflow in due course.
 
It's interesting how over time strategies and ideas change. When I first joined this forum back in 2004 we had just built our first PPOR at the age of 26....and we were struggling to pay the bills!! This property then became our first IP when we moved and held on to it.

I got super excited about the LOE principle as it made sense at the time, property doubles 7-10 years, sounded simple......easy peasy....I did a spreadsheet and worked out I could LOE at approx age 46 based in very rough numbers....20 years to retire :)

Fast forward to now and my predicted leave work age is still round the same age based on what we have bought (48-50) but it's more of a live on rent and saved cash model.....based on a lower 5% pa growth rate over the next 10-12 years.

Purely buy and hold, boring long term lazy investing....it suits me....

See how it pans out hey :)
 
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Don't know if I would call it 'Lazy investing', I would call it a long term plan which requires foresight,planning,patience,diligence,determination and going against the majority IMO
 
I agree - I am a buy and hold long term strategist too and whilst this may be 'lazy/easy' investing in the beginning with just a few properties, I can only imagine the massive admin hours needed to service and maintain say 25 properties. Even if managing agents are managing the tenants etc., there's still a lot of admin to do.

I reckon you'd need to atop full time work by then anyway. You'd need to work say an 8 hour day just administering the portfolio every week or so (but hey, I guess that is still 6 days of relaxation after!?).

I'd love to own a big portfolio of cosmetic renovation-potential properties, and quit full time work. Then, whenever one came up for end of tenancy, I'd just go in and do little guerrilla cosmetic reno (a couple weeks or so, duck in/duck out) and add more organic equity at the same time as they go along. I'd do a few of these a year. In the off times I'd then travel, learn to play a new instrument, and sunbake :)
 
All to their own, no crime in buy and hold, however if you up skill then you can improve on this, comes to whether you have the time and mindset, want to step outside your comfort zone if not then it is long slow process with resi
 
I agree - I am a buy and hold long term strategist too and whilst this may be 'lazy/easy' investing in the beginning with just a few properties, I can only imagine the massive admin hours needed to service and maintain say 25 properties.

Even if managing agents are managing the tenants etc., there's still a lot of admin to do. I reckon you'd need to atop full time work by then anyway. You'd need to work say an 8 hour day just administering the portfolio every week or so (but hey, I guess that is still 6 days of relaxation after!?).

We exit the race race last year on a Buy & Hold Strategy.

It took us 15 years to do it, building a multi million dollar portfolio spread across Australia which consists of around half the number of properties you mention.

The last 5 years of it was a good stress test coming off the back of the GFC.

LOE allowed us to exit the race years earlier in comparison to having to wait on a LOR strategy with the same income requirements to accumulate in after tax dollars.

In relation to administration, all our portfolio, besides our SMSF which we land bank inside of, is looked after by property managers.

We spend approx 4 hours a month on admin in relation to our existing holdings. This is basically data entry work from the end of month bank & property manager statements into our property accountancy program.

We may get a couple of emails through out the month from the PM's also in relation to lease renewal instructions etc but that's about it.
 
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Financial Independence

Hiya

Took us about 7 years :) Didn't want to post as it may seem like bragging but decided to as i wish to encourage others ...hey !if a stay-at-home-housewife with 3 young kids can do it, you can too:p

(On a side note, last week hubby had to serve a redundancy notice to one of his subordinates...the poor guy panicked, stood up, ran out of the room, out of the office and into the street...real story...my hubby had to run after him literally ...such was the poor man's psychological stress on seeing the envelope...)

That was my initial motivation to take a risk and dive headlong into this property game...i have heard and seen too much and resolve that we and us alone control our own financial destiny:D

BTW my model is LOR plus share/index income (dividend) plus licking the Super marshmallow when the time comes:D...in other words multiple streams of income.


I am not averse to also dipping into equity now and then for life's pleasures later on...heck! the equity is not there for sitting on like an egg; one needs to crack it now and then and enjoy.... work out your sums ...i did and was pleasantly surprised...

Psst: reading MrMoneyMustache has radically changed my mindset too...you should too!
 
All to their own, no crime in buy and hold, however if you up skill then you can improve on this, comes to whether you have the time and mindset, want to step outside your comfort zone if not then it is long slow process with resi

The other problem I have is not wanting to purchase anymore where I live so no renovating other than painting by me personally or developing as I a not game to project manage from a distance. I am a big fan of lots of diversification as it lowers risk but with this comes the downside of knowing a little about a lot but not being an expert on any specific location IMO
 
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Putting aside all the usual LVR & DSR issues along the way in order to achieve this sort of outcome, have they really sat down to work out how many IP's they actually need to acquire, so as to sell down half their holdings to pay out the other half, in order to own them outright mortgage free, as their chosen Exit Strategy to financial independence? I dont think so.

ive tried to do this but seems like (educated) guesswork?...sure you can use averages based on historical performance or whatever, but i'm not confident it would be all that accurate so have given up on detailed 'how many' plans etc
 
Has anyone done it predominantly buy and hold without a huge salary or business income, having > 2 kids and pulled the pin under the age of 50 ie completely LOR with NEITHER partner having to work?

So in essence, excess rent after interest and property related costs is enough to fully fund living expenses, mortgage or rent, holidays etc. I suspect excess rents in this case would have to be at least $100K per annum given that the positive rental income would be taxable.

If there is anyone, care to share your story?
 
There is a thread on living on $100K, do a search, I started this thread.
There are a number of SS members that follow Mr Moustache and living comfortably on $50K+, they are tight wads....joking of course:p
 
So I hear....apparently they can teach Frogs something...some even are starting to look like Frogs. :D;)

There is a thread on living on $100K, do a search, I started this thread.
There are a number of SS members that follow Mr Moustache and living comfortably on $50K+, they are tight wads....joking of course:p
 
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