Verbal Agreement?

[bradcon]

We have vacated a property after signing a 1 year lease. The agent sent us a new lease which we never signed. We gave 1 months notice 7 months after the initial lease finished and now the agent and landlord are claiming we have a verbal agreement which we are sure we never made. The landlord is claiming 1/2 the bond in loss of rent, fees ect and now we have to go to VCAT to have the case heard.

We believe that we are in the right here, the agent has stated the property was left in 'immaculate' condition, we were never late with rent and believe we have left the property in better condition than when we moved in.

We have even had an instance where the landlord arrived at the property unannounced, which while we didnt like it we nevertheless thought better of making a big deal of it.

Our agent gave us a great reference for our new property and even issued our bond refund letter. It took, in total 7 weeks for the landlord to make this decision.

Thoughts?

 

[wylie]

I think they don't have a leg to stand on if you have gone to a month by month arrangement, which seems to be the case if you didn't sign a new lease.

Stand firm.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

I'm guessing that the first think VCAT will ask for is the renewed lease agreement from the agent. When they can't produce it, the case will be closed. About the only thing you could do to muck this up is not attend.

 

[wobbycarly]

That old chestnut... a verbal agreement is only worth the paper it's written on.

 

[ugotadollar4me]

send the agent an email letting them know that if the bond is not refunded in full within 3 days, then you will take them to court and you will have your lawyer chase the bond etc, and that they will have to cover all your legals.

See how quick they move.

Verbal agreement aint worth nothing.
In your first lease contract you signed it will say when your lease is up and if a new lease is not signed that then you will be on a month by month agreement.

have a read of your agreement and then stick it to the agent.

 

[wylie]

It sounds like your bond has already been returned to you.... or have I read that wrongly?

 

[jrc]

You would be on a holding over period, so as long as you gave the appropriate notice no worries.

 

[bradcon]

It sounds like your bond has already been returned to you.... or have I read that wrongly?

No, the agent issued the notice to lodge with the relevent board, which needed to be returned to them to sign off and send in (i thought that part was unusual in the first place).

Basically the agent inspected the property, gave it the thumbs up and after that the landlord claimed that the (non existant) 'verbal agreement' had to be enacted.



Thanks for all the feedback, very much appreciated guys.

 

[froggy]

My golden rule is if its not written its not real.

 

[jezza]

HAHAHHA Verbal Agreement, give them a call tomorrow and prior to asking them to send over the copy of the current signed agreement( which they don't have), tell them you had a verbal agreement they were going to give you $10,000. Then as Ugota mentions tell them that your lawyers will be handling this for you if the bond is not returned in 3 business days. This is exactly what I was saying to someone today that PM's know how to pass a 2 day course that teaches them NOTHING!
Jezza

 

[Perp]

Just to reinforce what others are saying and hopefully give you added comfort: the landlord hasn't got a hope of winning this one. The landlord is, however, entitled to hold up release of your bond until such time as they lose at Tribunal. I would not be threatening them with lawyers unless your bond is released in 3 days, as this could get *you* in legal trouble. The landlord has a right to make a claim on your bond and have it heard at Tribunal, just as a tenant has a right to fight to get their bond back, even when not entitled to it.

In Queensland, when you apply to Tribunal on the basis of lease conditions, you have to attach a copy of the lease. When they submit an unsigned lease, I should hope that the Tribunal staff will point out to them that they have no case and it won't even require a hearing. But they're entitled to apply.

 

[wylie]

JIn Queensland, when you apply to Tribunal on the basis of lease conditions, you have to attach a copy of the lease. When they submit an unsigned lease, I should hope that the Tribunal staff will point out to them that they have no case and it won't even require a hearing. But they're entitled to apply.

And if they do produce a signed lease, it will be the one that has now rolled into a month by month, and the Tribunal staff will point out that they have no case either as you have give the correct notice under the terms of the lease.

Either way, you have nothing to fear from the tribunal .

 

[bradcon]

I'm guessing that the first think VCAT will ask for is the renewed lease agreement from the agent. When they can't produce it, the case will be closed. About the only thing you could do to muck this up is not attend.

Funny story, thats exactly what we did. The VCAT letter actually doesnt state day, just the date which i got wrong. Never had more empty feeling than been dressed and prepared, checking i knew exacctly where i was going only to work out that it was the day before.

Basically the reason i am rehashing this topic is because we were able to get a re-hearing however due to not attending VCAt ruled in favour of the landlord. At the re-hearing we won (pretty much what everyone said - Where's the lease? "There isnt one" Case closed) but the landlord had already been paid his part that he won at the first case. He was ordered to repay this to us, but has refused.

I am aware that we can go thru VCAT (again) but to be really honest i dont want to (i would assume neither would he?) I have the landlords contact number but i am worried by calling i could actually cause more issues than resolve it.

My understanding is that each time he goes to VCAT (the agent is representing him) that it costs him money. It seems that his beef is actually with the agent (again my understanding is that he paid them to draw up a new lease but the agent didnt follow up). It seems to be costing hm a bit of cash to hold onto what he really has no chance of holding onto.

Is it worth the call to try to resolve without going to VCAT again or just go thru with it? As landlords what would you rather do?

 

[liverpoolharryk]

What would happen in this case: What if the tenant is in a property a new lease is offered by the landlord and the tenant does not sign the new lease but stay's on past the expiry of the old lease. Because they have not signed the lease the owner then decides to give them notice to vacate, what would be the outcome????

 

[Jacque]

What would happen in this case: What if the tenant is in a property a new lease is offered by the landlord and the tenant does not sign the new lease but stay's on past the expiry of the old lease. Because they have not signed the lease the owner then decides to give them notice to vacate, what would be the outcome????

The owner is required to give them 60 days notice, as the fixed lease term has expired. Much better to keep tenants on fixed leases, as only 21 days notice is required.

 

[Simon]

Basically the reason i am rehashing this topic is because we were able to get a re-hearing however due to not attending VCAt ruled in favour of the landlord. At the re-hearing we won (pretty much what everyone said - Where's the lease? "There isnt one" Case closed) but the landlord had already been paid his part that he won at the first case. He was ordered to repay this to us, but has refused.

Does the VCAT know that he has refused to reimburse you as per their order?

This order must be enforceable or the whole thing is a toothless tiger.

I imagine that they must have some sort of way to ensure the orders are complied with so as to sign off the case as complete?

I'd be on the phone to them ASAP.

 

[Perp]

He was ordered to repay this to us, but has refused.

You don't go back to VCAT; you take your VCAT order to your local Magistrates' Court and they'll issue an enforcement order, and this automatically goes on their credit file. From the moment you lodge the application at the Magistrates' Court, unless they can prove that your claim that they owe you money is false, the process to getting a default listed on their credit file is irrevocable. So I'd get in contact with the landlord, preferably by fax, and tell them that you plan to go to the Magistrates' Court at 10am Monday unless payment is received - as cleared funds - prior to that time.

The procedure is outlined here.

 

[bradcon]

What would happen in this case: What if the tenant is in a property a new lease is offered by the landlord and the tenant does not sign the new lease but stay's on past the expiry of the old lease. Because they have not signed the lease the owner then decides to give them notice to vacate, what would be the outcome????

What i have been told (thru the people on this forum) is that the best thing to do is issue a new lease AND a notice of intent to evict concurrently at the end of the lease term. Simply put that the notice to evict will be withdrawn if a new lease is signed. Does that sound right to people?

 

[bradcon]

You don't go back to VCAT; you take your VCAT order to your local Magistrates' Court and they'll issue an enforcement order, and this automatically goes on their credit file. From the moment you lodge the application at the Magistrates' Court, unless they can prove that your claim that they owe you money is false, the process to getting a default listed on their credit file is irrevocable. So I'd get in contact with the landlord, preferably by fax, and tell them that you plan to go to the Magistrates' Court at 10am Monday unless payment is received - as cleared funds - prior to that time.

The procedure is outlined here.

Cheers for the link. I feel thats the last thing i want to happen. However the idea might make him move into action so ill ponder it over the weekend and make a decision on Monday.

 

[Perp]

What i have been told (thru the people on this forum) is that the best thing to do is issue a new lease AND a notice of intent to evict concurrently at the end of the lease term. Simply put that the notice to evict will be withdrawn if a new lease is signed. Does that sound right to people?

Exactly.