West Sydney sub-division feasibility?

[Propagate]

We purchased a place in West Sydney a few months ago with the intention of putting in a Granny Flat.

It looks though, like there may be scope to sub-divide instead and build a unit out the back.

We're in Melbourne and have no immediate plans to do anything with the property, but I would like to contact someone that knows the sub-division process and could take a look at the place so we know whether it's something we can work toward, or whether sub-dividing it would not be possible so we can just forget the idea.

Can anyone recommend a development/project management company/private certifier? that manages sub-divisions in West Sydney and provides an initial feasibility service?

Cheers.

 

[nhg]

Where in Western Sydney? Mind sharing the numbers?

It's not my thing (yet) tho, may be able to shed some light wether it's feasible or not.

 

[Propagate]

Werrington County.

3 Bed brick veneer with "teenage retreat", (badly converted garage).

Purchased for $375k and spent $7k on top to re-paint, carpet and a few repairs.

$420 a week rent.

630 ish m2 block, rear wall of the property is approx on the half-way line in the depth of the block, block approx 35m x 18m with 5m access passed the side of the house to the rear.

 

[neK]

Would probably help if you could draw it up (doesn't need to be to scale) and show dimensions

 

[devank]

630 ish m2 block,

It looks though, like there may be scope to sub-divide ...

Really?? I thought you would need a much bigger land than that. If the whole thing is $375k then how much is the new sub divided land is going to be worth? What is the paper cost of this sub-dividing?

A 100K Granny flat (with a car) may give you $300+p/w rent.

 

[Propagate]

Really?? I thought you would need a much bigger land than that. If the whole thing is $375k then how much is the new sub divided land is going to be worth? What is the paper cost of this sub-dividing?

A 100K Granny flat (with a car) may give you $300+p/w rent.

Not according to Penrith council guidelines.

A Granny Flat is still on the cards if we can't sub-divide, but my thinking is the value all up would be much better with 2 units rather than a house & GF. Plus, if need be, we could sell one or the other.

I haven't done any proper numbers yet, thought I'd see if it was even possible first.

Diagram on it's way.

 

[Propagate]

OK, diagram attached. Rough dimensions taken from Google Earth.

Existing garage & car port would need to be demolished and provision made round back somehow?

According to the Sydney Water diagram, looks like main sewer (VCP?) is on the property to the rear of ours. There is a dotted lined marked 'D' at the rear of our block which has a connecting line marked "100" from the house to it then another branch to the VCD line. I have no idea what they all mean, I assume it is to do with waste/sewer?

Cheers.

 

[RetireRich101]

do you know what zoning? currently Penrith Council still works with 2a, 2b, 2c etc..

is it torens, strata or community title you're looking for?

 

[Propagate]

do you know what zoning? currently Penrith Council still works with 2a, 2b, 2c etc..

is it torens, strata or community title you're looking for?

It's zoned 2b

I've no idea about titles. At the moment I'm just wondering if it is even possible to split it at all. If it is possible, then I'd essentially be looking to have 2 units on their own title as such, so that either/or could be sold separately if ever need be. What title would that be?

Cheers.

 

[nhg]

You could, 2b allows for detached dual occ. Will have to be strata titles due to small block size.

Which way does land slope? What is the front house made of?

Garage-thingy will have to go anyways. On first thoughts for that size land I wouldnt bother. To make it 2 story it will need 5m offset from back. Costs are higher for strata title as well. ROI on GF in that situation would be better. That said. Bank val is higher on strata titles house and you could make it 80+sqm, extra cost won't be reflected well in rent tho.

 

[RetireRich101]

sorry I am not an expert in understanding the DCP, but here is the link
http://bizsearch.penrithcity.nsw.gov.au/ePlanning/Pages/XC.Plan/Browse.aspx?hid=1319

I also have a property in Penrith council, 695m2 block in 2(a) zoning and I thought it's a no go for me. I would think i need the meet the requirement of "Internal lot minimum area" of 700m2 before I proceed any further.

I must admit there are lack of Town Planner for Sydney in this SS forum. If this post is for WA/QLD/VIC, it will be answered for sure..

 

[nhg]

Not according to Penrith council guidelines.

A Granny Flat is still on the cards if we can't sub-divide, but my thinking is the value all up would be much better with 2 units rather than a house & GF. Plus, if need be, we could sell one or the other.

I haven't done any proper numbers yet, thought I'd see if it was even possible first.

Diagram on it's way.

Wait you want to demolish house in front to build two units? Definitely not worth it. After demo and ground works it would make it more than $200k per land base ($400k land/2 units).

You will barely break even at $100k per land base in that area.

 

[Propagate]

Wait you want to demolish house in front to build two units? Definitely not worth it. After demo and ground works it would make it more than $200k per land base ($400k land/2 units).

You will barely break even at $100k per land base in that area.

Nope, 2 as in the original house being one of them with one new one out back.

 

[DaveM]

D is an easement for either stormwater or sewer.

 

[nhg]

I also have a property in Penrith council, 695m2 block in 2(a) zoning and I thought it's a no go for me. I would think i need the meet the requirement of "Internal lot minimum area" of 700m2 before I proceed any further.

I believe it is:

2a - attached dual occ. (Would probably want to demolish existing and build duplex)
2b - unnatached dual occ.
2c - those attic style townhouses to bypass the 3m height restriction.
2d - small apartment block.

 

[Ideo]

sorry I am not an expert in understanding the DCP, but here is the link
http://bizsearch.penrithcity.nsw.gov.au/ePlanning/Pages/XC.Plan/Browse.aspx?hid=1319

I also have a property in Penrith council, 695m2 block in 2(a) zoning and I thought it's a no go for me. I would think i need the meet the requirement of "Internal lot minimum area" of 700m2 before I proceed any further.

I must admit there are lack of Town Planner for Sydney in this SS forum. If this post is for WA/QLD/VIC, it will be answered for sure..

Oi. I'm here. Just haven't had time to look at it yet.

Remember, DCP controls are merit based and have some flexibility, depending on how strong your argument is.

 

[Propagate]

Oi. I'm here. Just haven't had time to look at it yet.

Remember, DCP controls are merit based and have some flexibility, depending on how strong your argument is.

So, seems like it may be possible then?

I had also read here about the minimum resultant lot size, (being 400m2):-

http://www.penrithcity.nsw.gov.au/u....7Guidelines-Subdivision-ResidentialZones.pdf

...but here it states devlopments under 400m2 are possible:-

http://www.penrithcity.nsw.gov.au/uploadedFiles/Part4.pdf

Is that under different zoning or, as you say Ideo, would an application outside of the guidelines still be considered?

If it would be considered, how would you go about it? Speak to council first to get their thoughts or shell out for a development application and keep your fingers crossed?

 

[Ideo]

Penrith is one of around 3 local government areas that mainly rely on a Planning Scheme Ordinance, a document that predates the introduction of the 1979 Environmental Planning and Assessment Act, which is lovely and doesn't make things at all more difficult...

Under the PPSO any residential usage is pretty much acceptable in the zone for the 2(b) land - the document is a locked so I can't copy what is in there word for word. The PPSO also refers to minimum lot sizes as being in square feet to give you an idea of what an up to date document it is...

I am assuming that your development is covered by the Penrith DCP 2006, then the 400sqm min would be applicable - the lower size would be for a detailed integrated housing development, rather than anything else.

The planning system for Penrith of needlessly complicated. First thing I would be doing would be getting a S.149 Certificate for the property in order to ascertain everything that applied.

But, if it is a DCP standard, if you have a good argument based in sound planning principles you can sometimes get away with being below the minimum.

 

[devank]

630 ish m2 block

I had also read here about the minimum resultant lot size, (being 400m2)

Required min resultant lot size is 400sqm. So you need at least 800 sqm to start with. If it is a battle axe then you may even need to take out the driveway section. But... your lot size is 630 sqm!
Am I missing something here??

 

[Ideo]

Required min resultant lot size is 400sqm. So you need at least 800 sqm to start with. If it is a battle axe then you may even need to take out the driveway section. But... your lot size is 630 sqm!
Am I missing something here??

There may well be the possibility of a detached dual occ on that size lot, with the potential for subdivision.

It's too small for a standard torrens sub.