what happens if someone leaves the country and doesnt pay their bills?

[woohoo]

what happens if someone leaves the country and doesnt pay their bills?
Eg personal loans from bank, credit cards, etc...

Do they get blacklisted and get a black credit rating? forever?

I had this debate with a friend today, he says bad credit rating for 5 years, then after that u are free as a bird.

Another friend says, once you come back to Austrralia, they will catch you!


I heard many people who are leaving the country have just run off and leaving behind personal loans and credit card debts...

 

[boomtown]

They are starting to share credit information with NZ.

Rest of the world, forget it. You would be a cleanskin in North America or Europe or Asia. As far as coming back, there is no limit on debts owed to the government. You might get away with debts owed privately if you are out of the country for more than 7 years but your credit record may be tainted for life.

In other words it may be a one way trip. If you are ok with that - fine. I know myself that I have lived all over the world and could survive just about anywhere. If things got really really bad in Australia I could walk away.

 

[Pecan]

If you run away leaving rental debt, your pm should lodge you on the national tenancy databases, which cover both Australia and NZ, so you will not be able to rent through an agency in either of those countries until your name is cleared (ie debt paid and you are removed from database).

 

[moyjos]

At my work we have had our collection agency recover a business debt from a person who shut up shop here owing us $$ and relocated to Fiji.

Admittedly we were lucky because we heard from a collegue on holidays that "Did you know XX has set up in Nadi?" Bingo!!

So I guess as long as your creditors can find you they can get you

 

[sparky23]

Sounds like you are in a spot of bother did you want to share how bad it is in case anyone can help you?

 

[silversands]

Yeah Woohoo,

Sparky is speaking for a few of us. We've read your questions about getting around interest on cc's and trust assets and bankruptcy and defaults on mutual funds etc.

Do you or Mr kahuna need to brain storm?

 

[argentinian]

I like this idea ... and also exploring various options to escape a number of large bits of unsecured debt.

Keep the research going ...

 

[BoatBoy]

I like this idea ... and also exploring various options to escape a number of large bits of unsecured debt.

Keep the research going ...

Like what idea?
Running away from you're obligations and leaving someone else holding the bag?

Glad you don't rent from me

Dave

 

[Y33]

Depends on who you owe the debt too. Not that hard to garnish a persons wages in another country if you know what to do.

Japan has an expression (yonige) or midnight run and is when people run away from their debts in japan on New Years Eve. Most end up changing their ID and there are companies set up to help people do this. Quite afew of these people who run away owe money to Japanese mafia (Yakuza) who own credit/lending companies. Every once in a while someone gets caught and is severely beaten or tortured.

I know of a few DC in OZ that can get heavy handed when chasing up debts.

Far better to declare bankruptcy and wipe your slate clean after a few years or engage in a debt consolidator/advisor who can negotiate on your behalf.

 

[sparky23]

No answer maybe he ran away already! Hope not maybe there is some debt consolidation that could help him.

 

[BayView]

what happens if someone leaves the country and doesnt pay their bills?
Eg personal loans from bank, credit cards, etc...

Do they get blacklisted and get a black credit rating? forever?

I had this debate with a friend today, he says bad credit rating for 5 years, then after that u are free as a bird.

Another friend says, once you come back to Austrralia, they will catch you!


I heard many people who are leaving the country have just run off and leaving behind personal loans and credit card debts...

They go live in Majorca and have a lot of trouble with their breathing, then die.

 

[woohoo]

Silversands and Sparky,

You guys should stop making assumptions like that in a public forum!

When i asked those questions, i was asking on behalf of my best friend who works in the same company as me.

Like I said, I'm asking for a friend because he has to go back to his country after so many years because of family obligations. Basically, his family is asking him to come back to help in their family business. SO it is not his choice to stay or leave, but he has to fulfil his obligation to his family. If he were not asked to go back, he would definitely stay here to service his debts. The problem is, in that country where he came from, the currency is small, wages are below AUstralia's wages, and if he were to service from there, he wouldnt' have any money left to eat!

And while in Australia he has accummulated 2 or 3 properties, and owns them thru his trust. Also lately he took out some mutual funds for tax deductions, which he shouldnt have done at the peak of the market. Now for the past 2 years i have seen him worked incredibly hard to support the interest payments for his properties and funds. This guy only takes maybe 4 hour sleep a day! I see him coming to work and sometimes he's like lack of sleep for so long.

Another of our mutual good friend who had left autsralia few years ago left without paying his credit cards. So this friend is telling my friend to do the same, and saying there is no long term effect. Basically he's saying after 5 years the debt will be cleared.

 

[sparky23]

Hi woohoo

Well if you post things like you did in your first post (also in a public forum) then of course people are concerned and that is why were wondering whether anyone can help. I don't think we were making assumptions just going off what you had said up to that point, now you have explained things properly and my thought are that perhaps he should be selling one or more properties to clear some debt, is that a possibility? Or is there enough equity to refinance and pay down the high interest debts with low interest money?

 

[marg4000]

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Some "friend". Apparently he owns assets in a trust but wants to keep them and duck his responsibilities?

And your other "friend" who left the country with debts may be in for an unpleasant surprise if ever he chooses to return. His debt will have blown sky high with interest and related charges.
Marg

 

[woohoo]

no, keeping the property in the trust was the 1st friend's idea. I on the other hand is suggesting if he could sell one property to pay off some debts. Well he's got people left and right suggesting this and that ,and I'm merely helping him to find out the best viable solution.

Marg i think you are too hasty in making your personal judgment about personal responsibility. Probably you have some unresolved feelings deep inside of you regarding this?. He is my friend in need, but who am I to judge what people think or do? If all your friends have to think exactly like you do, do exactly like you do, eat like you eat, you would have no friends in the world. I think you shouldnt judge a person before he even decides which road he is going to take.

The asset in the trust is bought not under his name, but for the trust for his family. Thats why people put things under company or trust name, so that if they get into trouble, it doesnt flush it all down the gutter right? Think!

 

[Dazz]

i think you are too hasty in making your personal judgment

Intelligent people judge and categorise everything from soap to cars to people, most hundreds or even thousands of times before lunch every day. It's what makes humans so good.

I think you shouldnt judge a person before he even decides which road he is going to take.

My grandfather used to judge people all the time. He was very judgmental. He had every right to be judgmental. He was a judge.


You mention being judgmental as if it's a bad thing....

 

[Minxdamanx]

My grandfather used to judge people all the time. He was very judgmental. He had every right to be judgmental. He was a judge.

Oh Dazz, I have tears running down my face!

Anyway....
We all run a risk when we post a question - especially one such as this which challenges our morals and sense of fair play - of being judged by others, or being criticised - of having our beliefs challenged and our mind changed. To me that is the whole point of posting anything - to get advice and to hear different points of view, helping you to make your own decisions.

Try not to be too sensitive, Woohoo and listen to the answers to your question - and then make up your own mind if this is the right thing to do or a valid option for your friend.

 

[Peter Parker]

Thats why people put things under company or trust name, so that if they get into trouble, it doesnt flush it all down the gutter right? Think!

That sounds like a rather 'creative' euphemism for escaping one's legal obligations.

Not a bad piece of spin-doctoring - it's about on a par with an unemployed stirrer describing themselves as an 'unattached change agent' (refer http://cpd.org.au/about-us/fellows )

The whole capitalist system (especially finance and trade) requires contracts and promises and that the parties to them have a well-based expectation that these will be honoured.

Without trust there can be no money, property rights or commerce.

Hence we'll all have to go back to hunter/gatherer self-sufficiency, as not even agriculture will work.

One who borrows money, incurs a tax liability or runs up a debt is bound to pay it back.

The focus should be on how your friend can pay it, not how they can avoid it.

Luckily your thinking seems to be on the right track for this.

 

[oldjonesy]

That sounds like a rather 'creative' euphemism for escaping one's legal obligations.

Not a bad piece of spin-doctoring - it's about on a par with an unemployed stirrer describing themselves as an 'unattached change agent' (refer http://cpd.org.au/about-us/fellows )

The whole capitalist system (especially finance and trade) requires contracts and promises and that the parties to them have a well-based expectation that these will be honoured.

Without trust there can be no money, property rights or commerce.

Hence we'll all have to go back to hunter/gatherer self-sufficiency, as not even agriculture will work.

One who borrows money, incurs a tax liability or runs up a debt is bound to pay it back.

The focus should be on how your friend can pay it, not how they can avoid it.

Luckily your thinking seems to be on the right track for this.

Also if his property is in a trust it will make no difference to the bank. They will still repossess it. I think the trickier thing is HOW to get all those assets into a trust. The laws can "see through" a trust if it is setup solely for debt avoidance.

Look if you are truly in dire economical distress it may be best filing bankruptcy and be done with it. Your credit will be shot for at least 7 years but after that you can make a new start. Forget fleeing the country, be a man and take responsibility.

 

[sash]

I don't it is as simple as that!

Depending on the circumstances the courts can set aside things.....particularly if criminal intent can be proven! So on that basis trusts maybe of no use.

Also, in most mortgages and applications for finance now ask..."Have you ever been bankrupt or defaulted?"...tricky question....because if you have you better answer this appropriately. Otherwise the person answering the question is committing mortgage "fraud".

My suggestion to your friend...live an honest life....less stress that way!

The asset in the trust is bought not under his name, but for the trust for his family. Thats why people put things under company or trust name, so that if they get into trouble, it doesnt flush it all down the gutter right? Think!