What (if anything) does a person's finances say about them?

[Shaneelastic]

I dont see any problem with Bankruptcy, can happen in a business down turn, lack of planning and debtors going belly up.

As long as asset protection measures are in place you should be fine.

Can go out and get most jobs without declaring that youve been bankrupt

 

[Ideo]

I dont see any problem with Bankruptcy, can happen in a business down turn, lack of planning and debtors going belly up.

As long as asset protection measures are in place you should be fine.

Can go out and get most jobs without declaring that youve been bankrupt

I agree.

I think those that dehumanise other people and view them as vermin are morally far worse.

 

[BayView]

I agree.

I think those that dehumanise other people and view them as vermin are morally far worse.

I do it all the time.

I wouldn't give most of the population the time of day if I didn't have to as part of my life/work..

But, I've had 30 odd years of dealing with the public in my work to hone my view. Most humans are oxygen thieves and an impediment on society. I'm perfect of course.

It's a bad point of view, but geez.... it's a good bad one.

 

[slammindan]

Good people can be forced into bankruptcy due to circumstances beyond their control. Others are in the position to use the system and do so. I don't think you can generalise about someones personality or character based on it.

 

[Ocean Architect]

Well here's another way to look at the issue of bankruptcy - when a human being does it, it's a terrible thing. Shameful. Taboo. However, when a corporation does exactly the same thing, no one says a thing. Corporations do scummy things all the time, ripping people off left and right, because morality does not apply to companies, only to human beings.

For example, if you as a human being found your home worth much much less than the mortgage on the home and walked away from the debt, people are up in arms saying that it is immoral, it is wrong etc etc - but when the same bank that you owed money to does exactly the same thing with a financial instrument that is not a mortgage, then that's just normal business.

So with that being said, I think that you cannot tell anything about someone going bankrupt at face value except that they did, indeed, go bankrupt. As Aaron said, you'd have to know the circumstances behind it.

My personal belief is that, sometimes, very good and capable people make mistakes, go bankrupt, and deserve to start again fresh without being burdened forever by debt, because many of these people are the entrepreneurs that our society needs to create jobs. Not everyone has the guts and brains in correct proportion to be a good businessman. Sometimes things go wrong. So while it is unfortunate that some creditors don't get paid what they are owed, I think it infinitely more socially useful to allow bankruptcy than to punish debtors with either prison or lifetime garnishment.

There's another issue here too - that being that the creditor has a bit of blame to bear in the whole thing as well. They should have done their due diligence and not do business with someone incapable of paying it back.

My final thought is one of reason and human compassion - as someone who has been ripped off a few times, I would still prefer that the debtor have a chance to start over and do well, than be saddled with an old debt forever. That kind of thing is soul destroying. I'd never want something like that done to me, and so wouldn't insist that it be done to someone else.

 

[kathryn d]

I would assume that anyone who doesn't see anything wrong with bankruptcy, would be more inclined to declare it themself.

 

[Aaron_C]

I would assume that anyone who doesn't see anything wrong with bankruptcy, would be more inclined to declare it themself.

Yes kathryn, because people don't make mistakes in life. If only everyone just stayed in a job and paid their taxes, the world would be a much better place for it. Note: sarcasm.

 

[kathryn d]

Yes kathryn, because people don't make mistakes in life. If only everyone just stayed in a job and paid their taxes, the world would be a much better place for it. Note: sarcasm.

I would just continue plodding along paying back any creditors I owed.
If everyone else did the same thing, debts would be repaid much quicker.
But that is me.

Note: no sarcasm

 

[Ocean Architect]

I would just continue plodding along paying back any creditors I owed.
If everyone else did the same thing, debts would be repaid much quicker.
But that is me.

Note: no sarcasm

That is your choice, based on your own morality, but is still exactly that - your choice. Not just that - your choice hasn't been tested in real life, because I daresay you havn't gone bankrupt.

Hypothetically speaking, lets say you had 3 young children, went into business, failed, and because of something out of your control or a complete accident like, say, digging up a $1 000 000 fibre optic cable in your backyard, became insolvent and had to declare bankruptcy. Don't laugh, this has happened - a guy in Canberra was sued for $3 billion dollars for doing this.

By your statements, you said that you would plod along and pay your creditors, but let's be honest - you're never going to get off the ground and pay them back. This means that your 3 young children are sentenced to a live of comparitive impoverishment, wont have the opportunities that they could have had, and are, in effect, punished along with you, with a net negative effect on society far worse than non payment of the debt. At some point in this situation, I think that you'd have a change of heart.

Personally, I think that is immoral. We know that accidents, or bad decisions are made. That's why we have insurance - to mitigate risk and keep things chipping along in the big scheme of things. We need some sort of mitigatory mechanism in society to keep things chipping along for the overall benefit of all, and that thing is bankruptcy.

 

[kathryn d]

Most people seem to fixating on businesses going bankrupt.

The people who I see declaring it, are regular everyday people. It means absolutely nothing to them, except they think they got away with it.

I worked with them. They were like me, except they spent their money on music concerts, restaurants, weekends away..so consumable debt racked up on their credit cards.They bought their lunches most days.Always had money for smokes and booze. Instead of owning a house, they chose to rent.(which is generally more expensive in our area)

Nothing they racked their debt up on can be taken back..it was consumed.
the only way they could pay off their increased debt, would require working more or cutting back. Nope..that would cut into their "lifestyle".

 

[Ocean Architect]

Most people seem to fixating on businesses going bankrupt.

The people who I see declaring it, are regular everyday people. It means absolutely nothing to them, except they think they got away with it.

I worked with them. They were like me, except they spent their money on music concerts, restaurants, weekends away..so consumable debt racked up on their credit cards.They bought their lunches most days.Always had money for smokes and booze. Instead of owning a house, they chose to rent.(which is generally more expensive in our area)

Nothing they racked their debt up on can be taken back..it was consumed.
the only way they could pay off their increased debt, would require working more or cutting back. Nope..that would cut into their "lifestyle".

That's a different story altogether. I don't know (or even name) anyone who has declared bankruptcy in those circumstances. Truthfully I hadn't even considered that kind of thing (Ocean Architect = honest dude ...now lend me yer munny).

 

[Aaron_C]

...and the people who suffer because of this?? The credit card companies...who know this happens all the time (which is why they charge 20% interest). No poor unsecured mums and dad creditors.

 

[kathryn d]

...and the people who suffer because of this?? The credit card companies...who know this happens all the time (which is why they charge 20% interest). No poor unsecured mums and dad creditors.

The ones I didn't mention are the ones that were our tenants.

A long story...but the end result we won a $15K judgement, but can't collect, but afterwards, they declared bankruptcy, even though they both still work.
So the $15k repairs/replacement of stolen goods + $2500 legal fees did come out of our pocket.... before you ask, insurance in canada does NOT cover this, when a tenant is involved.

The other tenants paid off most of their debt to us, until the declared bankruptcy, and all payments stopped.

So yes, it does affect mum and dad creditors.
It all has a domino effect. We were lucky enough to have the credit available to us, to cover the costs.

With credit cards..we all pay with increased interest.
Same as when people shoplift..we all pay with increased prices at the store.

 

[Aaron_C]

Just a cost of doing business. If you can't accept it then don't provide credit or services to people without security. We all share the same thing.

 

[kathryn d]

Just a cost of doing business. If you can't accept it then don't provide credit or services to people without security. We all share the same thing.

You and I both know, you are not permitted to take more bond than is written into the RTA..(which is 2 weeks here.)

That's not the point.
The point is, some people have no morals, and think everyone else can pay for their debts.

 

[Aaron_C]

In every society you get people who don't pay up when they should. Bankruptcy is hardly a cop-out because it destroys your credit for at least 7 years - which is a long time.

 

[kathryn d]

In every society you get people who don't pay up when they should. Bankruptcy is hardly a cop-out because it destroys your credit for at least 7 years - which is a long time.

That is where you and I will need will differ.
You see nothing wrong with..and I do.

oh well

 

[Ocean Architect]

That is where you and I will need will differ.
You see nothing wrong with..and I do.

oh well

I disagree and see both sides. I and family have experienced this kind of thing (one was a fire, another was a set of professional rent dodgers, another went to jail for using BR2 as a marijuana grow room, another disappeared off the face of the earth but left needles behind, plus a few dozen runners not worth chasing up) and accept this as part of due diligence, the cost of doing business aka risk management of investments, plus personal loathing of immoral scumbags who do this kind of thing.