Where can I find the cheapest Farm acerage in Aust?

farmers produce tangible things, do useful work

there is one main factor that determines whether or not a city farmer will succeed or fail, and that is attitude.
The attitude that doesn't work is-
- pretending to know what you're doing( to try and hide the fact that you don't)
- wanting to do things "differently"(once again because they don't know what they're doing).
-thinking they know better ( because they "googled it",or that's how it's "supposed" to work in theory.)
Everyone will sit back and say I told you so. All you have to do,(as you've already done), is admit that you don't know what you're doing and ask for some advice. Other farmers will fall over themselves to share their knowledge and show you what to do. And that's the only way you can learn.
Good luck!
RC

Thanks RealityCheque. And a big thank you to others as well, with a special mention to Topcropper. This city slicker is still keen and will not give up on the dream. Farmers actually produce tangible things and someday I hope to do the same.

Keep em coming
 
Check out the ABC's Four Corners program tomorrow night Bobbie.
You'll see a bunch of real farmers very passionate about what they do.


See ya's.
 
Sorry to digress, but while I have you farmers listening: what do you think of Peter Andrews and his "natural sequence farming", that has been featured on Australian Story? If his methods are half as good as his advocates claim they are, then I'd love to see him get more support from authorities. If not, well... that's why I'm asking. ;)

Sorry for hijacking, bobbiemenzies, but if you want to be a farmer, hopefully this is of interest to you, too. Perhaps you can turn around some of that cheap desert using these methods. :cool:
 
what do you think of Peter Andrews and his "natural sequence farming",


I suppose I'm a sceptic at this stage. I've seen all the ABC programs and done some research on his system.

He has a lot of support, so obviously he must be doing good things in his little neck of the woods. I'd like to see some really good reseach done, scientific stuff, with all the figures and the like to see what really is happening.

He has claimed that he could solve the problems of the Murray/Darling. Now that is a massive call,..!! I just can't see that at all. My theory on the Murray/Darling is, it is due to the improved productivity of agriculture. We are retaining more moisture on our farms though more fertile soils, more productive farm methods, more legumes, more ground cover etc. Now Peter's methods involve a lot of that too, so why does he think he can solve the rivers lack of water?

I look at what happened up my valley 30 years ago,.......to today......
30 years ago the creeks always ran water but today they don't. I played in the creeks all the time as a kid and everyone laments the lack of water in them now. And my rainfall is not falling. It has risen slightly in 70 years on average.

30 years ago........................... verses today,.......
ploughing soil, .........................verses stubble retension and zero till today.
Unfertilized native grasses, .........verses fertilized, introduced improved grasses and legumes.
Productivity of grazing and farming would be 3 times as much today. Add to that more contour banks, more irrigation, more farm dams, and this is why there is less runoff into the rivers.

If Peters methods retain water and increase productivity so much then how will it lead to the rivers being saved?

Peter talks of blocking up the creeks. Thats fine. If it works for him, then great. I'm farming floodplain land. It needs drainage. If water doesn't drain then there is increased risk of salinity.

Peter is a massive fan of weeds and slashing. He says weeds improve the soil, and you slash them to stop them going to seed. I say get rid of weeds early and that weeds grow on less fertile soil. Farmers who look after their soil have less weeds. It's a case of the chicken and the egg here. I do use slashing of some of my pastures. At times it's the best method, however I'm a small time grazier and only have very small areas to slash. It would not be economic on large commercial areas, or where there are rocks, too many trees or too steep.



Finally, I don't like how Peter denegrates Australian agriculture. It's much like Jarrod Diamond, David Suzuki, and others. If things are so crook then why is productivity so much higher today? Productivity is higher, yes, because we use so much more fertilizer and stuff that Peter doesn't like, but the plain and simple fact is that if the soil was buggered like he says then it wouldn't work no matter how much artificial crap you threw at it.

Australian farmers have never used European farming methods. And especially not today. We have our own unique farming methods and we are world leaders in them.

Peter has also gone bust and lost his original family farm. I think it was 1994, a drought year. OK. Maybe it was bad luck. But others haven't gone bust and are going from strength to strength. Peter is now working for a billionaire breeding racehorses. If you've ever driven past a horse stud owned by a billionaire, you'll know that money spent has no limit. If you put on enough organic fertilizer, say tonnes to the acre, you will have amazing soil no matter what, but there is an economic cost. And that organic fertilizer was produced from animal manure, that came from animals that were fed grain that was grown using artificial oil based fertilizers. I'd like to see his stuff done on a genuine family farm where real decisions make or break the business.



Probably not what you wanted to hear. Just being honest.


See ya's.
 
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Can't say I know much about him or his methods.

Sounds fairly typical though. Went broke and now sells books telling people what to do.
If only the truly successful farmers in this country had time to write books.


RC
 
farmers - the backbone of the country

I don't normally watch terrestrial TV - with all its biases it is often a waste of time. For want of anythin gbetter, I usually watch Mr Murdoch's Foxtel - there is more choice & variety than the usual left wing or redneck rubbish that one sees on "normal" TV.

But tonight I made a point of watching 4 Corners, on Topcroppers advice. Seeing those farmers and all the challenges they face hardened my resolve to become one! Farmers are the backbone of the country - they produce tangible things and they have a sense of loyalty to the land and to one another.

If anyone spots cheap farming properties for sale, please post the links here. Preferably something self sustainable and costing no more than the average Aussie home.

Keem those links coming.....lets take a look at Australia's cheapest farming land.
 
Check out the ABC's Four Corners program tomorrow night

We took your advice and TC, and the wife and I sat down and watched it all the way through.

Coming from a drilling / exploration background, and having relatives who are pathetically dysfunctional and disorganised farmers, I declare my bias immediately. I was completely unsympathetic to your cause.

The magistrate in the Gunnedah courtroom got it right straight off the bat. The farmer's simply don't have a leg to stand on, as the Mining Act clearly states that the coal companies have a right to explore - if granted a permit to explore from the Govt - and the farmer's have no say in the matter.

As you rightly pointed out above, farmer's own less than 6" depth of their dirt. This is not Texas, where it is one of the few places in the world where minerals rights can be conveyed upon the landowner. This is Australia. The Govt owns all of the wealth underneath the soil and underneath the sea out to about 200km. Farmer's aren't anything special. That Act applies to all Australians wherever they live. Farmer's crossing their arms and stamping their feet does not change that.

The major problem, and the root cause of the conflict, is simply the farmer's have the wrong assumption that they are the "boss" on their farm.....and no-one is allowed on their farm without their permission. This is simply not the case. The licencee of the permit is allowed by the authority in the matter - the Govt - not the farmer, to wander wherever they so wish to search for mineral wealth. They must respect fences and gates etc, and replace if damaged or install new ones if their equipment is bigger than the farmer's gates allow....but that is it. The farmer, when first hearing, probably assumes they'll get a "cut" from all of the profits. This could also be a root cause of the conflict when they realise they aren't going to make a brass razzoo out of it.

The ex-driller was a joke. Me and God. No wurries, let's get Him on the stand to cross examine. Contamination in the mud my left eye. The volumes are miniscule and 95% of that is returned to the surface. It's all water based mud with some weighting agent and viscosifiers to carry the particles. Your spray is far worse. The BHP girl made a balls up of her reply though. She made it sound as if toxic chemicals were used in the drilling mud. Nothing could be further from the truth - but she was trying to be so politically correct she sounded p1ss weak. The ABC reporter was having a field day with her tip-toeing around the question trying to be ever so nice.

Once again, the magistrate got that decision about the mud right as well, and threw the farmer's complaint about contaminated mud out as completely irrelevant. As the farmer's said though, it was simply a legal tactic that hadn't been challenged in court. Now that it had, and lost woefully, they simply go about legally challenging something else - whatever it takes apparently. As the Act was all the miner's way, the last resort was to have a bleat to the politicians and appeal to their compassionate side. Enter Bobby Brown. :rolleyes:

All of the histrionics regarding the chap who said that he wouldn't leave the farm unless they shot him and went out in a box.....well, that's simply childish but very very typical of farmer's reactions that I know. Assume the wrong thing and then go get the gun. "I'm the boss of this farm and you're gonna have to kill me to be the boss." Fortunately - you are not like that TC.

The other comment I didn't like was the main spokeswoman for the farmer's outside Parliament saying that the politicians were 'drunk on the mining royalties so they can balance the books'. Dunno about you, but I am all for the Govt utilising it's natural resources to improve the countries balance sheet and run a prudent and healthy economy. That should be applauded.

The other thing is that the actual disturbance from the coal mining is very very small from a regional basis. It might consume 8 or 10 big farms all up, and they'll all be compensated handsomely - the guy in the show that had sold was more than pleased. He was looking to purchase another farm elsewhere that didn't have a higher land use with his windfall.

NIMBY came to mind.

You are a sensible chap though TC, I'd appreciate your thoughts....what feedback have you received thus far ??
 
The farmer, when first hearing, probably assumes they'll get a "cut" from all of the profits. This could also be a root cause of the conflict when they realise they aren't going to make a brass razzoo out of it. ??


We are not stupid. We all know we don't own whats under our farms. And don't try to make this out as though we want our cut. If we want our cut we can sell out and take the money as some have done. We all realise how valuable the land is we are sitting on. We will get double for our land in 10 years time, just as it's doubled in the last 10 and quadrupled in the last 20. We'd rather keep farming it.

Numerous studies have shown the the worlds farmers have to double production in the next 50 years to feed the 9 billion people. It's not going to happen. Production growth is platueing out.

You say it's a NIMBY thing? Well maybe it is then. We have no idea what the atitude of the general population is. If most people feel the way you do, then that's that then. If that's the way people feel then it's short term massive profits win. I wouldn't be surprised. If your atitude is the general attitude then we have no hope of winning.

Everyone feels uncomfortable teaming up with the greens. Farmers and greenies are arch enemies. But you do what ever it takes.



http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=-31.333112,150.390472&spn=0.197652,0.307274&z=12

This is the area on the TV last night. On the program it claimed this dirt was 40% more productive than the Australian average. I'd say the true figure is 3 times. There is not much broadacre land in Australia that is as productive as this.

Scroll out to the north west a 100 k's. There you will see a patch of scrub owned by the government. The Pilliga scrub, that big dark green blot. Wouldn't run a billygoat. It's still scrub because it was agriculturally worthless and no farmer wanted it 100 years ago. The miners can go and dig that rubbish up.



I thought the program was real good. Enjoyed it. Only feedback I've had was from other farmers, mostly ones who appeared on the show. You're the first non farmer feedback I've had. Interesting.

See ya Dazz.
 
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You say it's a NIMBY thing? Well maybe it is then. We have no idea what the atitude of the general population is. If most people feel the way you do, then that's that then. If that's the way people feel then it's short term massive profits win. I wouldn't be surprised. If your atitude is the general attitude then we have no hope of winning.

I'm not sure my feelings or the general population have much to do with it, honestly. The magistrate is supposed to be a neutral 3rd party and look at all the facts objectively. He made his ruling based on fact and law. I don't think the "feelings" of all of those directly affected who were quoted as being packed into the courtroom and lining the walls had much to do with it. I would be disappointed if the magistrate took into account their feelings.

Everyone feels uncomfortable teaming up with the greens. Farmers and greenies are arch enemies. But you do what ever it takes.

I thought miners and greenies were the arch enemies. Maybe it's loggers and greenies who are arch enemies. I always thought farmers / miners and loggers were pretty much lumped into the same pot by the well heeled greenies. They are all as bad as one another - raping the earth unnaturally for man's ill gotten gains etc etc.


On the program it claimed this dirt was 40% more productive than the Australian average. I'd say the true figure is 3 times. There is not much land broadacre land in Australia that is as productive as this.

I'm sure it is and I'll defer to your vastly greater knowledge. But I come back to my point that mining is a higher use of the Govt's mineral wealth than what farming is - regardless of how productive the land is. You cannot eat coal, but you cannot run a country with no power either. They are both essential. Don't know about your short term thing either. One mining executive was quoted on the program with Australia having 200 years of black coal and 800 years of brown coal in reserves. Doesn't seem short term on first inspection.

But I come back to my point that mining and farming can easily co-exist. The mine takes up very little land surface area for a whopping benefit. It doesn't have to be one or the other. There are numerous examples of mines and farms co-existing.....indeed many miners son's get jobs in the mines to keep the struggling farms going.

Scroll out to the north west a 100 k's. There you will see a patch of scrub owned by the government. The Pilliga scrub, that big dark green blot. Wouldn't run a billygoat. It's still scrub because it was agriculturally worthless and no farmer wanted it 100 years ago. The miners can go and dig that rubbish up.

Unfortunately, you know as well as anyone that geology underground dictates where the reserves are, and to extract the valuable commodities one must go where one finds them. No point going "out there" where it doesn't disturb any other land users if there isn't any mineral wealth of economic proportions.



Only feedback I've had was from other farmers, mostly ones who appeared on the show. You're the first non farmer feedback I've had. Interesting.

Sorry if it disturbs you. You asked us to watch it and we did. Not being directly affected I can afford the luxury of indifference. Because this directly affects your livelihood and family well being - obviously you're at a higher emotional level than I am on this subject....and rightly so.

Some of the town folk interviewed though seemed extremely keen to have the influx of the miners. Have you taken their business standpoint into consideration ??

Good luck with your cause whichever way it turns out.
 
Sorry if it disturbs you.

What? Disturbs me? Where did that come from? What are you talking about? I thought we were having a conversation about mining and farming?


Some of the town folk interviewed though seemed extremely keen to have the influx of the miners. Have you taken their business standpoint into consideration ??
.


Lots of town folk are pleased. Why wouldn't they be? I've pointed out numerous times on this forum how well the local economies out my way are doing. From farming and now mining activities. Just as Perth is doing well, we are the same. What's your point?

Gotta go do some work,

See ya's.
 
I was completely unsympathetic to your cause.
The magistrate in the Gunnedah courtroom got it right straight off the bat. The farmer's simply don't have a leg to stand on, as the Mining Act

There is the law.....and there is justice......sadly, these are entirely different things. The Federal Constitution guarantees our property rights. It is disingenuous to rely on flimsy laws to snatch land away from honest people who have worked hard to buy it. Be aware that our Constitution, a truly noble document that sets the parameters about how laws can be made, makes no mention of owners' land rights stopping 6 feet below the land that farmers worked hard to buy.

Taking peoples land without paying for it is un-Australian. We have to get out of the backward, primitive, uneducated mentality that its ok to grab peoples land and not compensate them. This is not 1788 - massive land theft is no longer acceptable among honest thinking people.

South Koreans have dragged themselves out of third world status in barely a generation without digging minerals out of the earth. Surely we are as smart and can do the same? I have nothing against mining and recognize that there is a place for it. But the greed of those in the mining industry knows no bounds and must not go unchecked. To rely on dumb patriotism "we need exports" lacks vision. Digging things out of the ground isn't exactly a smart or value added industry.

Does anyone remember the good old days when gold mining companies paid no tax? They whinged and moaned when they had to pay tax like the rest of us.
They promised us that they'd go bust....but it hasn't happened. Compared to farmers, the mining community is not a good corporate citizen.

OK lets leave it there. I created this thread to find Australia's cheapest farming land. Please share some links with us if you see any value out there.

Regards
Pig Iron Bobbie
 
But I come back to my point that mining is a higher use of the Govt's mineral wealth than what farming is - regardless of how productive the land is. You cannot eat coal, but you cannot run a country with no power either. They are both essential.

TPFKAD

Mining is not sustainable whereas agriculture is. Once the coal runs out there is no more. The agricultural land can sustain people for hundreds if not thousands of years. If you assess the return over the long haul agriculture will nearly always beat mining due to the length of time of the returns.

Man lived (existed) without broad based electricity for thousands of years. Life would be different, not cease to exist. :D

Cheers

Shane
 
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Taking peoples land without paying for it is un-Australian. We have to get out of the backward, primitive, uneducated mentality that its ok to grab peoples land and not compensate them.


Thanks for all the kind words Bobbie.

However, just remember that all farmers who will have their land mined are being offered more than the value of their farms to walk away, so we are beiing compensated.

I don't think mining companies have to compensate us. However it is a matter of social responsibility. This is not China.

My farm is not under threat of coal mining currently.

See ya's.
 
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I'm not sure my feelings or the general population have much to do with it, honestly. The magistrate is supposed to be a neutral 3rd party and look at all the facts objectively. He made his ruling based on fact and law. I don't think the "feelings" of all of those directly affected who were quoted as being packed into the courtroom and lining the walls had much to do with it. I would be disappointed if the magistrate took into account their feelings.
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G'day Dazz.

What that magistrate in Gunnadah thought is unimportant. Farmers were always going to lose that bit. Then it's on to the next stage.

Public feelings and perception in this issue are important. This will end up being decided in state and federal parliament. If people think we are all nuts, and this land should be mined, then it will be. This is a democracy.

See ya's.
 
But I come back to my point that mining is a higher use of the Govt's mineral wealth than what farming is - regardless of how productive the land is.
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Mining is a higher use of Gov't wealth. Over a short period.

I've no doubt there would be coal under the city of Newcastle. The seam runs from Newcastle to the QLD coal fields. No one is ever going to mine Newcastle though, as that land is too valuable.

What is a figure of how valuable something is to destroy it? We are saying this land should not be mined. We know, as does everyone that the profit from the mine would be maybe a thoudsand times what the farm would make in a year. But the farm will be there forever.

As above, people will decide this issue. People have decided that we should not cut down any more rainforests. People decided not to dam the Franklin despite enormous profits and energy that would have been produced. The farmers of this area want this land to be saved, so now it's up to the people. It's been put up there and it will end up in parliament and the politicians will decide what to do about it.

You obvously think it's not too valuable to mine. Fair enough.

See ya's.
 
Firstly, I created this thread to find Australia's cheapest farming property. It was not my intention to polarize people. Let's get the arguments out of our system and find some cheap farming property out there. Think for a moment......beyond laws. Consider peoples attachment to the land.

OK lets leave it there. I created this thread to find Australia's cheapest farming land. Please contribute if you can. Lets work together to stop fanning the flames.

Regards
Pig Iron Bobbie
 
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