LMAO...
Think I'd rather live in the shearing shed than the house.
There must be a sheep joke in there somewhere
Where can I find the cheapest Farm acerage in Aust?
- Thread starter bobbiemenzies
- Start date
There must be a sheep joke in there somewhere
Definitely Aussie - not Kiwi!There must be a sheep joke in there somewhere
My post about saline affected land near powerlines related to 2 ideas (more like pipe dreams I confess)
(1) arising from a tv a program on using saline affected ponds as a source of heating and to generate electricity from heating liquid hydrocarbon carbon and running a turbine ...by extracting hot water from lower layers in the pond down
"The project partners are now planning stage two of the
project; an evaluation of the commercial potential of
the solar pond for electricity generation and combined
heat and power. This could be achieved by incorporating
a gas-driven turbine into the equation.
‘Hot water from the solar pond could be used to
evaporate a low boiling point chemical, such as a hydrocarbon
liquid, to form a high pressure gas which could
drive a turbine and produce electricity,’Akbarzadeh says.
He says energy from the ponds could also be used to
desalinate water.
‘We could use hot brine from the bottom of the
pond as a working fluid in a power-generating cycle,
which would produce electricity and freshwater.’
(2) purchasing barren land with large exposure to solar radiation, building a solar farm and supplying the grid (although technology needs to become more efficient...maybe after covalent solar commercially release their dyed solar panels in about 2 years time...they claim to create 4 times the electricity as current panels) http://www.covalentsolar.com/Technology
http://www.covalentsolar.com/Applications
http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=111903&org=NSF&from=news
Interestingly both technologies use the idea of convection and layers (saline layers in a pond and layers of coloured dyes in solar panels)
The tv program on saline ponds showed the way heat was trapped in the ponds could be utilised and that there was a greater intrinsic value in this land than currently accepted.
Good article here:
http://www.ecosmagazine.com/?act=view_file&file_id=EC117p8.pdf
Same goes for high solar radiation land with 3 phase power access (and ideally in close proximity to technical skills/maintenance/materials...maybe close to a railway line or main road would help reduce construction costs).
http://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-energy/solar-power/solar-farm.php
Now if someone would give me access to a bit of cheap tidally affected coast line I'd like to build a tidal power plant as well.
(1) arising from a tv a program on using saline affected ponds as a source of heating and to generate electricity from heating liquid hydrocarbon carbon and running a turbine ...by extracting hot water from lower layers in the pond down
"The project partners are now planning stage two of the
project; an evaluation of the commercial potential of
the solar pond for electricity generation and combined
heat and power. This could be achieved by incorporating
a gas-driven turbine into the equation.
‘Hot water from the solar pond could be used to
evaporate a low boiling point chemical, such as a hydrocarbon
liquid, to form a high pressure gas which could
drive a turbine and produce electricity,’Akbarzadeh says.
He says energy from the ponds could also be used to
desalinate water.
‘We could use hot brine from the bottom of the
pond as a working fluid in a power-generating cycle,
which would produce electricity and freshwater.’
(2) purchasing barren land with large exposure to solar radiation, building a solar farm and supplying the grid (although technology needs to become more efficient...maybe after covalent solar commercially release their dyed solar panels in about 2 years time...they claim to create 4 times the electricity as current panels) http://www.covalentsolar.com/Technology
http://www.covalentsolar.com/Applications
http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=111903&org=NSF&from=news
Interestingly both technologies use the idea of convection and layers (saline layers in a pond and layers of coloured dyes in solar panels)
The tv program on saline ponds showed the way heat was trapped in the ponds could be utilised and that there was a greater intrinsic value in this land than currently accepted.
Good article here:
http://www.ecosmagazine.com/?act=view_file&file_id=EC117p8.pdf
Same goes for high solar radiation land with 3 phase power access (and ideally in close proximity to technical skills/maintenance/materials...maybe close to a railway line or main road would help reduce construction costs).
http://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-energy/solar-power/solar-farm.php
Now if someone would give me access to a bit of cheap tidally affected coast line I'd like to build a tidal power plant as well.
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yes don't tell anyone, me too, I was thinking of buying in queenstown (tas) as it's near the snow(@) resort.
LMAO...
Think I'd rather live in the shearing shed than the house.
There must be a sheep joke in there somewhere
Less distance to travel for a hot date?
Is it really near snow? I wasn't aware of that...
Some great posts, including a collection of great links from Our Obsession. Thanks everyone - keep em coming. Lets find some more affordable cheapies!
It seems as if many farmers use "DSE" (Dry Sheep Equivalents) as a means of assessing the usefulness of farming land. A question for the farmers. Can you give us city slickers a good explanation of DSE (Dry Sheep Equivalent) with some examples? Does $per DSE make for good value investing?
Isn't fencing a good thing? (sorry if I appear ignorant).
Lets keep this as on-topic as possible. Can you spot some cheapies out there? Please share. Thanks
It seems as if many farmers use "DSE" (Dry Sheep Equivalents) as a means of assessing the usefulness of farming land. A question for the farmers. Can you give us city slickers a good explanation of DSE (Dry Sheep Equivalent) with some examples? Does $per DSE make for good value investing?
Isn't fencing a good thing? (sorry if I appear ignorant).
Lets keep this as on-topic as possible. Can you spot some cheapies out there? Please share. Thanks
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I don't want to give my secrets away, but because you SS folk have been good to me, I will return the favour. Farm land that you speak of exists at reasonable price in one place, and one place only. Tasmania. Shh, don't tell anyone.
You get:
1. Cheap land still...just search, there are still bargains galore in the apple isle.
2. Mountain views....almost everywhere.
3. River views/creek...almost everywhere.
4. fertile soil.
5. Green.
6. Within driving distance of Hobart/Launceston/Burnie.
Heres a Tassie place,....
http://www.robertsre.com.au/cgi-bin...&&&&&&parse=2&type=ForSale&propertyid=2279146
$470,000 for 18 beautifull rolling hectares. But theres a lot of infrustructure including the house.
See ya's.
Now you're on the right track. Even starting to sound like a farmer!
DSE or dry sheep equivalent is a standardised method of assessing the productivity potential of grazing land. When trying to assess whether or not land is good value, price per acre is pretty much irrelavent without taking into account the DSE capacity of the property. It is used to compare the grazing potential of properties and has no relation to cropping potential.
One DSE is equivalent to 1 dry sheep ( dry meaning not breeding ie a wether or dry ewe)
Every grazing animal has a DSE rating applied to it according to how much feed it takes to sustain the animal in relation to one dry sheep.
For example-
A merino wether is 1 DSE
A merino breeding ewe with a lamb is 2.4 DSE
A merino breeding ewe with twins is 2.8 DSE
A steer is 10 dse (ie one steer needs 10 times the feed of 1 merino wether.)
A cow rearing a calf is 15 DSE
There is a table listing the DSE rating of every type of grazing animal in all physiological states. I couldn't find a link to a good one but if you had time to search you'd find one.
When you see grazing land advertised for sale more often than not they will state the DSE rating of the property. Either as DSE per acre or hectare, or the total DSE rating of the property.
For example 500 acres with DSE rating of 2 DSE/acre or 1000 DSE total. That means the property will run 1000 dry sheep, or 100 steers, or 66 cows and calves. IE divide the total DSE by the DSE rating of the type of stock you want to run. A purchase price of $300,000 equates to $300/ DSE.
Price per acre alone can be very misleading.
A property back'o'bourke that is $50/acre may require 20 acres to sustain 1 DSE. Thats $1000 per DSE.
A property in prime grazing land may be $3000/ acre but run 5 DSE/acre. Thats $600 per DSE.
So you can see that price per acre alone is a very poor indicator of value.
DSE rating of land is based on a combination of soil type, rainfall and vegetation type. Therefore it is possible to change the DSE rating of land. Obviously we cant change soil type or rainfall so there are limits to how much it can be improved.
IE granite soil with native pasture in my area might run 2 dse/acre. If you spread fertilizer and seed annually it might run 3 DSE/ acre.
Agents and vendors invariably over state the DSE capacity when selling a property to make it seem better value. That's where experience comes in, being able to judge DSE capacity for yourself.
Hope this helps.
RC
Further to my example of price/acre in relation to price per DSE. You don't necessarily have to buy expensive land to get good value per DSE.
You can find land that is $500/acre that will run 2 DSE/ acre or $250/DSE.
The next step is to work out what type of enterprise you want to run. Or more importantly what type of enterprises are best suited to the country you're looking at and how much per DSE they might return. That then enables you to start looking at return on capital etc.
RC
You can find land that is $500/acre that will run 2 DSE/ acre or $250/DSE.
The next step is to work out what type of enterprise you want to run. Or more importantly what type of enterprises are best suited to the country you're looking at and how much per DSE they might return. That then enables you to start looking at return on capital etc.
RC
keep em coming
Reality Cheque, thanks for the highly informative post and for your generosity in sharing -the information you provide so selflessly has the potential to save city slickers like me from doing serious harm to our bank balances. Thanks also to others who have contributed to on-topic exchanges of info; your experiences empower the rest of us and save us time, money and tears.
I've looked at a number of properties and have seen goats, sheep, cattle and lots of interesting beasts. I have met uncomplaining, gruff, taciturn farmers who, I suspect, are doing a lot better than they make out. The unquestionable thing is that they work damn hard for their money and are clearly the backbone of the country.
http://www.eldersrealestate.com.au/...unding_radius=10&property_name=&business_type[]%3D%26residential_type[]%3D%26rural_type[]%3DP%26commercial_type[]%3D%26land_from%3D0%26land_to%3D%26bldg_area_range_from%3D0%26bldg_area_range_to%3D%26bedrooms_from%3D0%26bedrooms_to%3D%26bathrooms_from%3D0%26bathrooms_to%3D%26carparks_from%3D0%26page_size%3D10%26sort%3D0%26price_from%3D%26price_to%3D%26%26offset%3D0
On the topic of DSE and value investing......this property's advertised DSE is 2800, which means it can support up to 2800 sheep. Problem is there are only 300 sheep there, I am not sure where the rest have gone. Some questions: In terms of value investing, is this good value considering the asking price? Will it cost a great deal to restock the farm? Is it worth the bother? I'm told local sheep produce around 2kg of wool. After shearing costs, is this worth doing? The salesman says no, he says the new property owner will need a regular job to make ends meet. What do you think?
Reality Cheque, thanks for the highly informative post and for your generosity in sharing -the information you provide so selflessly has the potential to save city slickers like me from doing serious harm to our bank balances. Thanks also to others who have contributed to on-topic exchanges of info; your experiences empower the rest of us and save us time, money and tears.
I've looked at a number of properties and have seen goats, sheep, cattle and lots of interesting beasts. I have met uncomplaining, gruff, taciturn farmers who, I suspect, are doing a lot better than they make out. The unquestionable thing is that they work damn hard for their money and are clearly the backbone of the country.
http://www.eldersrealestate.com.au/...unding_radius=10&property_name=&business_type[]%3D%26residential_type[]%3D%26rural_type[]%3DP%26commercial_type[]%3D%26land_from%3D0%26land_to%3D%26bldg_area_range_from%3D0%26bldg_area_range_to%3D%26bedrooms_from%3D0%26bedrooms_to%3D%26bathrooms_from%3D0%26bathrooms_to%3D%26carparks_from%3D0%26page_size%3D10%26sort%3D0%26price_from%3D%26price_to%3D%26%26offset%3D0
On the topic of DSE and value investing......this property's advertised DSE is 2800, which means it can support up to 2800 sheep. Problem is there are only 300 sheep there, I am not sure where the rest have gone. Some questions: In terms of value investing, is this good value considering the asking price? Will it cost a great deal to restock the farm? Is it worth the bother? I'm told local sheep produce around 2kg of wool. After shearing costs, is this worth doing? The salesman says no, he says the new property owner will need a regular job to make ends meet. What do you think?
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Bobbie, are you really serious here? Surely if you were you'd be asking these questions somewhere else other than a resi property investing forum?
The place above is almost desert. The stock need to be able to eat rocks to really thrive. It's for sale. Maybe the owner went bust? In a good season it would support a big huge pile of sheep. In a bad season it would support 10 goats. Maybe they are in a bad season right now?
I'm not really into DSE's. It's more for graziers who breed stock. I'm a grain grower, and most grazing land in my area is better used for fattening. A lot of it can also be cropped, so that increases it's value. I'd suspect grazing land in my area may be overpriced going on the DSE rateing, but that's because of the reasons I just mentioned. Also because treechanges all want it too, so that's increased it's value as well.
A lot of graziers buy their stock from a breeding area, like up on the Tablelands where reality cheque is from, and then fatten them down on the plains. Then sell them to a feedlot who will fatten them even further.
See ya's.
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bobbie,
Let's say you bought this place.
In answer to your questions-
It may cost you $50-00 per head to restock with sheep at the moment. If local sheep are cutting 2kg/ head that equates to about $8 per head return. Then you have to pay for shearing and running costs so that leaves you with about $2 profit per head per year. The productive life of a sheep is about 6 years so by the time they are too old to keep any longer your $50 sheep will have returned you $12/ head. So, you would have looked after the sheep and maintained 152400 acres for a period of 6 years to lose $38 per head.
The agent was right, you definitely needed a regular job.
Then you think bugger this for a joke and put the place back on the market. The problem is no one else wants to go through what you've just been through so it sits on the market for ages until someone else comes along that doesn't know what they're doing and then you might get your money back if you're lucky.
I'm not over exagerating here, it happens regularly. It's a constant source of amusement in the country, to see how much city people will pay for land that is almost useless.
RC
There isn't snow in queenstown, it's a clapped out mining town.
I wasn't completely kidding though, Ben Lomond in the northeast (one hour’s drive south of Launceston) has some good snow but is not very develloped.
I like Tassie too.
60,000 ha * 2.471 acre / ha = 148,260 acres.
If the total carrying capacity of the property is 2,800 DSE, then ;
The average carrying capacity = 53 acres / DSE.
Purchase Price of $ 320K = $ 2.16 / acre
Therefore, cost of property = $ 114.50 / DSE.
Still looks cheap, and costs of shearing could be reduced further by actually doing it yourself. At 150 per day, would take 2 men about 9 days to take the clip off. Of course, no-one has mentioned about the natural increase in stock when you have good rains via what sheep do best....make little sheep.
However, scratching around a red dust bowl that is 20km x 30km looking for one miserable sheep every 53 acres would be a nightmare indeed.
I like the idea though of it being a non-working station. Passed it by the kids and they thought it would be great to visit on school holidays. It costs about a 1/4 of what a beach-house costs along the coast.
I reckon the camping and night skies for star gazing would be amazing out there in the middle of nowhere.
If the total carrying capacity of the property is 2,800 DSE, then ;
The average carrying capacity = 53 acres / DSE.
Purchase Price of $ 320K = $ 2.16 / acre
Therefore, cost of property = $ 114.50 / DSE.
Still looks cheap, and costs of shearing could be reduced further by actually doing it yourself. At 150 per day, would take 2 men about 9 days to take the clip off. Of course, no-one has mentioned about the natural increase in stock when you have good rains via what sheep do best....make little sheep.
However, scratching around a red dust bowl that is 20km x 30km looking for one miserable sheep every 53 acres would be a nightmare indeed.
I like the idea though of it being a non-working station. Passed it by the kids and they thought it would be great to visit on school holidays. It costs about a 1/4 of what a beach-house costs along the coast.
I reckon the camping and night skies for star gazing would be amazing out there in the middle of nowhere.
Damn - someone already has my idea....
Being a country boy, i have long earned for a good sized property for myself. somewhere that my "dynasty" can all go to, to have as our own, and to live life away from everyone. This one at 320k for 140000 acreas or thereabouts is one good example of what i would like.
But i wouldn't bother with sheep or any typical rural practices to supplement the running costs of a place like this. Instead, i would rent portions to astronomers to come out to camp and to spend time gazing at the stars and skies. i would even set up a number of dedicated observation and camping areas. Plus maybe set up a camping areas for trekkers too, birdwatchers etc. Maybe even have some type of program for foreigners to come and to experience outback australia etc.
This is just a dream though as i cannot imagine living in a place like that. it does sound romantic but in reality it will be a hard and difficult life (especailly for members of my family that are used to the hustle and bustle of a large Asian city). If i were to buy a place like this, it would be a holiday home only (but even at 320k, it is still cheap). It could my very own San Simean.
As a side note - my cousin had a similar type of proprty out near Coolabah in NSW, and he used to offer hunting weekends for people from Syndey and other metro area to come and play weekend cowboy on his property by hunting pigs, goats etc.
So if you use your imagination, there are plenty of other ways to make money from such a property. But if you are going to look at the tourist type of market, then insurance maybe a killer cost for you.
Something to ponder..........
g
Darn, its just sold. They were swamped with enquiries.
Anyone got any other ideas for good value situations?
Cheap is good.
Anyone got any other ideas for good value situations?
Cheap is good.
Still looks cheap at $114.50/ DSE?? Maybe in theory.
I must have missed something. Didn't realise bobbie was a shearer.
If in fact bobbie isn't a shearer then it'll take him about 2 months to get the wool off them but he will save $2.35/hd.
If you want to camp and look at the stars it doesn't matter what place you buy. The problem is bobbie keeps mentioning good value investing which this place is not.
I'm into sheep breeding, sheep trading, wool exporting, I buy and sell sheep on commision for other people, I could shear the sheep myself and I can even buy my own wool.
Could I turn this place in to a good financial investment? Not in a million years.
RC
Just as well its sold........thanks for sharing your views guys, its nice to know you saved me from drudgery and tears later down the track.
I am a bit discouraged....I get the feeling from the farmers out there (and you guys out there definitely know more than me) that chasing cheapies may not be such a good idea. But cheapies are all I can afford.
I do want to live the life of a farmer. I can see some of you smile......nevertheless, its my dream. Everyone has to start somewhere.
Keep em coming. Thanks for sharing
Don't be discouraged. I've only tried to discourage you from heading in the wrong direction.
The large increase in the value of rural land in recent years has seen an influx of "cheap" properties come onto the market. Farmers splitting off their unproductive/ unusable country and selling it off as "lifestyle" properties. To the unsuspecting city buyer these properties seem cheap when compared to Sydney house prices, coastal beach houses or whatever other comparison they care to make. All of which is totally irrelavent if they are relying on the land to provide an income. These are the types of properties that you need to avoid.
I'll be frank, wanting to go out and buy a cheap farm with no experience and expect to make a living is crazy talk.
My advice would be to buy a small place and farm as a sideline for a start. That way you can learn as you go and get some experience without risking too much. If you are not relying on it to provide an income you can afford to learn from your mistakes, and there will be plenty!. That way you can grow as your experience grows.
From what I've seen, I would say that there is one main factor that determines whether or not a city farmer will succeed or fail, and that is attitude.
The attitude that doesn't work is-
- pretending to know what you're doing( to try and hide the fact that you don't)
- wanting to do things "differently"(once again because they don't know what they're doing).
-thinking they know better ( because they "googled it",or that's how it's "supposed" to work in theory.)
Everyone will sit back and say I told you so.
All you have to do,(as you've already done), is admit that you don't know what you're doing and ask for some advice.
Other farmers will fall over themselves to share their knowledge and show you what to do. And that's the only way you can learn.
Good luck!
RC
