Which political side manages money well

This says it all for me....not much point debating which side, Labor or Liberal manages the economy well after viewing this graph.

Of course, anyone can sprout that they are an "economic conservative".....but the financial history picture is plain to see.

That small blue blip under the line is the reason Rudd's Govt sailed through 2008 during the GFC unscathed, and it had nothing to do with Rudd at all.

Anyone disagree ??
 

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rofl nothing more to add. Can't wait for Bill Shorten to dispose of Juliar as PM and rack up even more debt for spending on his union buddies wooohooo
 
It was a bit strange when everyone was doing well in the last years of the Howard administration. Surplus was passed back to people in the form of middle class welfare, senior programs and lower taxes. Then arguments circulated that the Howard administration lacked vision on infrastructure spending, lack compassion for refugees or just plain boring that needed replacement.

Middle class welfare has been wound back somewhat.

What is gratifying is that the government begins to see that some budget items are just getting out of hand. It puts it in perspective how much the government can rack up. They must be facing the difficulty of balancing budget and implementing policies for citizens or refugees. A little policy of exchanging 800 refugees for 5000 from Malaysia comes with a hefty price tag - over $300m in 4 years.
 
I think there is a difference between managing the economy well and net debt.

think of it as a property investor..... would you consider someone with no assets and no net debt as being a better money manager than someone with high assets and high net debts?

You also have to take into account the relative economic times of the 2 parties "reign", which required different approach to financial management.

I dont think this Labor govt (either Rudd or Julia) has performed well. they have mismanaged alot and run govt to satisfy PR groups.

But Howard didnt invest into infrastructure (roads, rail, education, health etc etc). So, we end up with no debt, but no assets either. I remember reading one commentator who said Australia was like a billionaire living in a run down shack. I think Howard put alot of money into middle class welfare and tax cuts, which should have been invested back into building our nation.
So, I dont think they managed the country's finances as well as is often "proclaimed" by the blue ribbon libs.
 
think of it as a property investor.....


I cannot. Running a country is nothing similar to running a property portfolio, there is far far far too many soft issues to deal with when running a country that preclude you from taking the business model of property investing and applying it 100%. Aspects for sure, but not 1 for 1.


What I do know that does relate to property is that in 1996, there was over 7 Billion bux flying offshore every year to pay for the debt. That's 7 Billion automatically out of the annual budget that cannot be spent on Australians and Australia.


By 2005, the mountain of debt had been eliminated and the flood of funds out of the country had ceased completely. By 2007 when apparently it just got too boring, we had a beautiful pile of crisp folding notes in clean white bags to the tune of 42 Billion, with revenues coming in of about 3 Billion. That's 3 Billion extra to spend on Aussies.....THE ABILITY to spend I should say. If you ain't got it, you can't spend it.


So in less than 4 short years, Labor, once handed the keys to the vault, have managed to spend the lot saved, and racked up another mountain of debt larger than the one Hawke / Keating took 13 years to make. Once again, we have now about 8 Billion of taxpayers dollars flying out of the country every year to pay the interest bill. That's an 11 Billion difference every budget year that Labor cannot spend on Aussies.


To me, that is significant.



Howard didnt invest into infrastructure (roads, rail, education, health etc etc). So, we end up with no debt, but no assets either.

I don't know whether that is the truth, your perception or a half-truth.

I distinctly remember literally hundreds of signs around 2000 reminding everyone this new road works was a Federally funded road project.

I also distinctly remember Howard trying to do something about speeding up the wharves and break the union stranglehold. If you've ever been down to the docks and listened to the Union guys in full flight, you'd shake your head and be amazed that anything moves at all.

In 2007, I believe quite a few hospitals and schools were chugging on OK. Admittedly, the schools didn't have an extra shed that they all do now, but really, did it need to be paved in gold ??


I remember reading one commentator who said Australia was like a billionaire living in a run down shack.


I'm sure if you dig deep enough, there would be at least one journalist / Labor sympathiser who could conjure up an article to put the magnificent work both Howard and Costello did in a bad light.

Not sure about a run-down shack, but Buffett lives in an ordinary house, and he could pay off half of our country's nett debt by himself. Perhaps Billionaires don't enjoy living in opulent mansions. Perhaps only the flashy wannabe try-hards aspire to that......
 
Lies, damned lies and statistics. In this case they are presented as a chart but it is still lies.

I've trudged this earth for nearly my allotted three score and ten and believe that there is little to differentiate the two parties, over time. The Libs are miserable and stay busy secreting money into hollow logs until the electorate objects that so many social issues are ignored and votes in a Lab government.

With such a backlog of "worthy" causes to promote Lab go overboard. I can still sympathise with Gough but understand that he was out of control.

But Daz, I accept that the current Lab government is the worst ever and nothing will ever make me vote Lab again. :D
 
Anyone disagree ??

Nope not at all, if it wasnt so funny i would be crying. But then i'm a sarcastic pr**ck at times.

Dont you just a love a democracy in action.
The people have it good for a while, but do they appreciate it: nooooooo!!!!!

They start being attracted to things like:
* a citizens assembly
* our duty to become a world global leader in carbon emmission control (the fact that our northern neighbour is belching out more of the stuff than we would ever produce is ignored)
* our duty to produce more environmentally sustainable energy sources, how about the cost? ha? no idea, if its environmentally friendly then it must be good right? hey but no windturbines near any birds, we wouldnt want a bird to get killed, no that wouldnt be right at all.
* fight back with labour contracts: yeah all well and good until companies start offloading people (this is one to watch for the future)

But here is the best part, guaranteed to really send their heads into a real spin.
Not only has their been a movement towards global free trade, but there has also been a corresponding movement towards global money movement and the commoditisation of labour as an asset class.

So for the owners of capital, there are still good opportunities on the horizon.
 
With such a backlog of "worthy" causes to promote Lab go overboard. I can still sympathise with Gough but understand that he was out of control.

They can do what they like with their 'worthy' causes, so long as it doesnt come out of my tax dollars.

The day my dollars get effected, is the day my dollars flee to safer pastures.
Let the PAYG mugg pay out of his dollars.
 
I think there is a difference between managing the economy well and net debt.

think of it as a property investor..... would you consider someone with no assets and no net debt as being a better money manager than someone with high assets and high net debts?

You also have to take into account the relative economic times of the 2 parties "reign", which required different approach to financial management.

I dont think this Labor govt (either Rudd or Julia) has performed well. they have mismanaged alot and run govt to satisfy PR groups.

But Howard didnt invest into infrastructure (roads, rail, education, health etc etc). So, we end up with no debt, but no assets either. I remember reading one commentator who said Australia was like a billionaire living in a run down shack. I think Howard put alot of money into middle class welfare and tax cuts, which should have been invested back into building our nation.
So, I dont think they managed the country's finances as well as is often "proclaimed" by the blue ribbon libs.
the current Labor policies, sell off the assets, have No assets and High debt
Labor are such a good opposition party​
lets leave them there
 
Clearly net debt on its own without any context is a complete measure of economic management.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ey-history-shows/story-fn59niix-1226056371414

I worry about people some times.

Wayne Swan at the Press Club was trying to say though figures in that article means that he is a great treasurer. It just means he has no clue.

Yes as the howard government had more Money they spend more money. Weird I know!!!!

If people do not understand why Howard increasing expenses by 3 % is better than Labor increasing expenses by 1% I will explain in numbers

Under howard (numbers just for example)

income 100
Expense 50
Surplus 50

If you increase expenses by 3% so 1.5 the figures end like this

income 100
Expense 51.5
suplus 48.5

Yes you had the money to spend and still do.

under Wayne

Income 100
Expense 150
Debt 50

Increase expenses by 1% 1.5

So

Income 100
Expense 151.50
Debt 51.50

So more money on the Credit card.

I will take a 3% increase in expenses when you have money to spend to a 1%increase in expenses which goes on to the credit card any day of the week.
 
This says it all for me....not much point debating which side, Labor or Liberal manages the economy well after viewing this graph.

Of course, anyone can sprout that they are an "economic conservative".....but the financial history picture is plain to see.

That small blue blip under the line is the reason Rudd's Govt sailed through 2008 during the GFC unscathed, and it had nothing to do with Rudd at all.

Anyone disagree ??

Is that graph correct? Does it contain the whole 12 Hawke/Keating years? And does it also include public debt?

My understanding is that Hawke paid off the debt (left by the irresponsible Lib Fraser, and Whitlam), then Keating went a little silly. Your graph is cropped, to only show Keating's somewhat irresponsible (unless you are Keynesian) recession spending.

Very dishonest crop there.

Also, there is public debt to consider. You can sell the rest of country down the river, sending public debt through the roof (and yes, this can be a government decisions - privatization, and banking deregulation can affect this) while keeping public debt down.

I'm not a partisan, I'd could give a more balanced opinion, but that would require a bit of work.
 
Also, there is public debt to consider. You can sell the rest of country down the river, sending public debt through the roof (and yes, this can be a government decisions - privatization, and banking deregulation can affect this) while keeping public debt down.
When you say public debt I assumne you mean debt held by private individuals. I do remember some commentators saying that although the Howard government had done a good job of reducing Australia debt, private debt had grown in that time and the overall debt was nearly the same. Telstra is a good example, Howard sold it off to "Mum and Dad Shareholders" At least these individuals had a choice to get into debt.

I bet the privately held debt hasn't dropped in the time that Rudd and Gillard have run up government debt.
 
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