Who buys Reno's?

Hi all,

A question to all you renovators who sell your completed property. Who do you find, in general, buys the renovated pad?

I'm about to try a reno or 2 having gained some experience in builiding and am interested in what sort of "target market" others feel is out there.

I guess its people who cannot/will not renovate themselves but that's a pretty big set. Do you feel it is generally the more affluent who renovate less themselves ?

Would value input as it will help in selecting the bracket of property to renovate.

Apologies if this question has been discussed previously - I couldn't find it if it has!

Cheers,

bagg
 
Bagg

Where abouts are you located?
I'm about to do a reno soon too after gaining builiding experience, like you, over the last few years.

Why not keep the property as an IP and revalue to access equity to do another deal. Buying and selling costs cut you down badly, CGT too.

Regards

Adrian See
 
Hi Bagg.

The short answer is the lazy ones.

Seriously though, it never ceases to amaze me how there is such a big variation in interest when selling a fully renovated home and an unrenovated one.

I suppose it is the lifestyle that people buy. That's why I focus on the WOW factor when renovating. Home buyers will always pay a premium, so if doing houses, buy only ones that will appeal to family types. If doing units, target the genx'ers of the world.

Hope this helps,
Sam.
 
It's more about the location. If you're buying a family home, a posh/lazy family will buy it.

If you're buying in Newtown, a gay couple will buy it from you.

You need a 'WOW' factor in there. Something that draws the eye. People don't buy a house, they buy an AMAZING kitchen, a GORGEOUS fireplace, the SWEETEST patio... ect

In the end all three bedroom houses have three bedrooms, floors, walls and a roof. Its the wow that sells yours.

Jas
 
It is interesting though that you can pay the same for a renovated property as an unrenovated one. This has been apparent in Paddington and Bondi Junction, Bondi recently - apparently people will pay the equivalent to leave their own mark.

Anyone else seen this - makes you wonder about letting others doing the work for you doesnot it?

Buzz
 
I think that's more about inexperienced renovators learning from a TV show. The market cottoned on. It's happening in a couple of areas I'm keeping my eyes on too.

Hopefully, things will settle down soon...

Jas
 
Thanks all for your replies guys.

Adrian,

Sure. I agree with holding onto as much as possible but one can also create a reasonable cashflow business out of renovating and selling.

I'm in sunny Hobart and will prob do one or 2 here to get into it before venturing to Melbourne. Contact me if you wish to talk.

Cheers,

bagg
 
Originally posted by Jas
I think that's more about inexperienced renovators learning from a TV show. The market cottoned on. It's happening in a couple of areas I'm keeping my eyes on too.

Hopefully, things will settle down soon...

Jas

Agreed,

Im sure all of us have been annoyed by a situation like this one....

you've found the perfect property, all the numbers stack up, the list price looks good ... and then.... gazumping/bidding wars and you've lost a deal because some schmuck who has NFI is willing to pay $50K over market

again, this aint a real situation, im oversimplifying, i know there are ways around gazumping etc etc (i should make this my sig) im just trying to make a point
 
Hi Xben,

I know what you mean... being guzumped by someone who is willing to pay thousands of dollas over the property's true valuation can be a pain in the b*tt, but when that occurs its a matter of getting your calculator out & begin from square one again to try find that bargain of a lifetime...

I personally think with the negative publicity & scare tacticts employed by the governments & the reserve bank may scare off some inexperienced IP investors & we may see less & less of this crazy situation (people paying too much for property)...

Cheers,

MannyB.
 
Originally posted by manny
Hi Xben,

I know what you mean... being guzumped by someone who is willing to pay thousands of dollas over the property's true valuation can be a pain in the b*tt, but when that occurs its a matter of getting your calculator out & begin from square one again to try find that bargain of a lifetime...

I personally think with the negative publicity & scare tacticts employed by the governments & the reserve bank may scare off some inexperienced IP investors & we may see less & less of this crazy situation (people paying too much for property)...

Cheers,

MannyB.

thats exactly what you have to do :)

i just hate stupid ppl (its a great insurge song)
 
It is not just a matter of being Guzumped.

There are a lot of potential owner occupiers, who want to buy a character house in an inner area and they have $x to spend. If the house has $50,000 worth of renovations, it does not matter, they can't afford it. But they are prepared to buy an unrenovated house just to get into the market.

Therefore the cost between a renovated and unrenovated house is not as much as the cost of renovation.

So renovators beware, try to buy below median price and renovate the house up to the median price.


Stirling
 
Originally posted by stirling


So renovators beware, try to buy below median price and renovate the house up to the median price.


Stirling

100% agree Stirling! I think we all need to read and reflect on the above statement.

reno'ing to get a a below average condition/presentation property up to average or slightly above is MUCH easier than getting an average property up to excellent standard!
 
Hi Boys and Girls.

One factor that no one has mentioned and has been witnessed @ our Auctions are Buyer's Advocates.

Amazing how they get paid regardless of the price.

Their job appears to be to buy the property at all costs, and we are stunned by the way they come in at the end and keep pushing up the price.

This happened last year at a block of flats in Elwood when three weeks after an auction, the same advocate was back with a different client and paid an extra $40k for an identical property.

Anyway, they can be instructed to buy at all costs as the buyer may well be an owner occ and is prepared to pay a premium.

Best advice is to just walk away and look for another.

If negotiating a private treaty, put the offer in writing and set a time limit for acceptance/ refusal. If someone else is also vying for the property, then offer your walk away price. If beaten, big deal.

Cheers,
Sam.
 
Originally posted by karsal
Hi Boys and Girls.

One factor that no one has mentioned and has been witnessed @ our Auctions are Buyer's Advocates.

Amazing how they get paid regardless of the price.

Their job appears to be to buy the property at all costs, and we are stunned by the way they come in at the end and keep pushing up the price.

This happened last year at a block of flats in Elwood when three weeks after an auction, the same advocate was back with a different client and paid an extra $40k for an identical property.

Anyway, they can be instructed to buy at all costs as the buyer may well be an owner occ and is prepared to pay a premium.

Best advice is to just walk away and look for another.

If negotiating a private treaty, put the offer in writing and set a time limit for acceptance/ refusal. If someone else is also vying for the property, then offer your walk away price. If beaten, big deal.

Cheers,
Sam.

G'day Sam

I'm intrigued by your comments in this post. What makes you think that buyers advocates get paid 'regardless of price'?

From your various posts, I gather you work in the real estate industry.

I hold the full Victorian Estate Agent's Licence and have worked as a buyer's agent - advocate if you prefer.

All my clients were extremely price specific. That is why they had engaged me to act on their behalf. They were not interested in 'funny business' and I had strict instructions to walk away when that price was reached, be it at auction or by private treaty.

For any agent, the interests of their principal, whether vendor or purchaser are paramount. However, an authority to act is delegated by the principal. The agent cannot act outside that authority.



But to get back to the original theme of this thread ...

As a developer, I am very interested in the demographics of 'who buys renovations'.

I decide before buying the original property who will be the target market. My target for the property currently nearing completion is the 50 year old cashed up divorced woman who has kept the family sized fridge and washing machine.

To suit her, I have installed a drying cabinet, ironing board cupboard, french doors, walk in pantry, ceiling rose with matching cornice in the main bedroom, fully landscaped 'edible' courtyard garden, 'leafbuster' gutter guard etc

To make a living doing renovations, I have learnt that the finished property must be capable of being sold at least 50% above the purchase price. This is based on

Purchase price 100%
Stamp Duty 5%
Legals, Bank fees 2%
Selling Fees 3%
Renovation Costs Materials 10%
Labour 10%
Plans, Permits 1%
Interest 5%
GST on margin 4% (this represents 1/11th of margin contract to contract less rebate of GST paid on materials and labour etc - not strictly accurate but close enough)

Which allows me a pre tax working margin of 10%, which is really a bare minimum.

So it is important to be sure of the target market before buying and certainly before starting work. 10% is a slim, unforgiving margin.

And as for people who are prepared to pay silly prices for demolition jobs - if you are making frequent offers then you won't even notice the 'one that got away'!


Cheers

Kristine

ps If anyone is looking for a good buyer's agent in Melbourne(and no, I don't mean me!) you are welcome to email me. The gentleman I recommend and previously worked for bought, renovated and sold 24 houses in 24 months when we was in that line of business prior to going into real estate, nearly 30 years ago. He also lectures in the licensing course, and what he doesn't know about houses and property isn't worth knowing.

Plus, he was never rude to anyone in his life, and is a joy to do business with!
 
Hi Kristine.

Just passing on some experiences with some that I know, and what they have told me.

Not implying that all are no good, so please don't take the comments out of context, or personally. The ones that I have spoken to tell me of engaing clients @ 3%. When I asked, what happens if they don't end up buying, he responded that he tells them that if they want the propery then they will have to be prepared to pay a premium. In other words, he conditions them.

Like anyone else these types in the industry don't last too long. I think that advocates are great, and do it myself for clients.

If you do know of someone good then I would love to know their details, as I may have plenty of work for them.

Cheers,
Sam
 
Hi Sam

No, I haven't taken any offence and certainly wouldn't take anything made as a general comment to be personal.

I've been around a bit too long to take things said in a public forum in a personal way.

But as individuals, members of a group or professional occupation, or simply as members of society, I hold that it is our moral duty not to slander anyone, but rather, to all act in a way which brings credit to ourselves and to our fellow humans.

I guess it's the old freedom of expression thing. However, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance and if we wish to be able to choose our way of life, profession, religion, footy team or whatever we must accord other people the same right.

And if we seek to promote ourselves by denigrating others then we have simply degraded ourselves.

On the subject of buyer's agents, although I have asked Max's permission to pass his name on, I would rather not post his details as this would look like spam. Max does have a website and if anyone would like to check this out please send me a quick email or Personal Message and I will return the details to you.

I would say that 'all' Max's clients come through word of mouth or other recommendation. His father had the privilege of introducing Lion's Clubs to Australia way back then, and Max and his wife share the same strong spirit of service to the community.

Cheers

Kristine

ps Max held the Building Styles & Faults class in the licensing course and told the storey of buying an elevated house at Selby, in the outer east of Melbourne. He had an arrangement with a rubbish contractor that he (Max) had the first pick, then all the remaining salvage on each site would belong to the contractor, in return for clearing the site.

Parked squarely under this particular house was a complete cloth winged airplane! Try as they might, there was no way to manouvre the plane out from under the house, and although it was repeatedly offered to an air museum, eventually it had to be pulled apart for scrap.

Oh, the joys of the renovator!! Shows there's more to be found than just rat's nests!
 
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