Whose responsibility to clean exterior structural windows in apartments?

[Pushka]

A couple of years ago we purchased and apartment in a multi level block. Initially the developers had the Body Corporate bearing responsibility to clean the large exterior structural windows - the floor to ceiling type that can sometimes even overhang on the apartment below if their windows are set back. I am not talking about balcony sliding doors or anything like that.

Well, apparently at the first BC meeting, this responsibility was assigned to each individual owner. This item wasnt on the Agenda, or I would have been at the meeting with whistles on to stop it.
Well, of course, I only just realised that we will have to organise this ourselves. There is a tiny opening window next to the floor to ceiling one, which just allows a specialist window cleaner access to do this from the inside. But we are talking 'one off' very expensive.

If the BC did the cleaning, then it would be an external cherry picker arrangement - much more effective and financially cost effective.

I guess my query is, for those with apartments, who looks after the large external windows that form part of the building structure? Everyone's windows are so damn dirty now that people dont even open up the curtains!

 

[dave99]

In my apartment, the owners corp maintains the exterior of the building, including cleaning, painting, etc. A guy in a cherry picker comes every 6 months to clean all the windows. All the owners split the cost.

The external faces of the building are Owner Corp property - not individual owners' property. So the owners corp should be maintaining them.

You should put it to the other owners that it is actually cheaper to get all the external windows cleaned at once, rather than each owner arranging their own cleaning. Plus, put it to them that the dirty windows on the whole building are reducing the value of their apartments, even if they clean their own windows. That will get them thinking!

-Dave

 

[buzzlightyear]

For my IP in Sth Melbourne, its the owner's corporation responsibility (or body corporate) whatever you want to call it. Happens twice a year.

Can't see how responsibility would be logically transferred to the individual owner's of the building.

 

[Cherry Pro]

For our IP in Hornbsy, organised by onsite PM and paid by Body Corporate

 

[craigb]

Do a search for your local absailing group and give em $200 for there time to climb out and absail over the window to clean it , they would love to do it any way. and im sure the money would be a bonus for them!

 

[Pushka]

Hm, thought about the abseiling craig but they need to enter the top penthouse to get an anchorage - and as if anyone would give them permission to do that!

Thanks guys, I was gobsmacked when I found out that responsibility was transferred over - it makes no sense! Here are pictures of our delightful window!

Buzzlightyear, how do you think I can best argue this?
And Dave, if one of these windows breaks, is it a Body Corporate expense to repair it?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Hm, thought about the abseiling craig but they need to enter the top penthouse to get an anchorage - and as if anyone would give them permission to do that!

Thanks guys, I was gobsmacked when I found out that responsibility was transferred over - it makes no sense! Here are pictures of our delightful window!

Buzzlightyear, how do you think I can best argue this?
And Dave, if one of these windows breaks, is it a Body Corporate expense to repair it?

Grounds of occupational health & safety - do owners have the expertise to source appropriately qualified, insured and reputable service providers?

The insurance policy of the building (maybe you should speak to the underwriter or broker) may have some teeth with regards to who and how service providers are being sourced for work on the building.

And cost (as per Dave's comments). For the time to set-up and desimantling of the equipment, safety harnesses etc, the window cleaning takes about a milisecond and the cost would be theoretically prohibitive and I honestly doubt that a contractor would actually do it, to be honest.

With regards to the window breaking, the contract with the service provider to do the work would clearly outline where a contractor would be liable. If a window breaks, that could not logically be as a result of wear and tear - these would have to have an almighty impact to break them, and that would in all likelihood be the contractor's fault.

 

[The Y-man]

Well, apparently at the first BC meeting, this responsibility was assigned to each individual owner. This item wasnt on the Agenda, or I would have been at the meeting with whistles on to stop it.

In Victoria, you can still stop it within a month of the BC meeting - so it pays to check the minutes....

The Y-man

 

[Pushka]

Hey Y, I didnt even get the minutes! I have gone to the Office of Consumer and Business Affairs website today, and found this:

In a community strata scheme the lot boundaries are defined by reference to structures (usually parts of the building), similar to a strata title and that the structure itself is common property and it is therefore the responsibility of the corporation to maintain and insure it.

I dont think it should even have gone to vote. I have asked the BC to show me where it was listed on the Agenda, and who listed it. I dont think it was on the Agenda specifically, but was heard under a heading in general items.

Hey Buzz, I like your idea about contacting the Insurers!

 

[Propertunity]

similar to a strata title and that the structure itself is common property and it is therefore the responsibility of the corporation to maintain and insure it.

Pushka, I think you'll find that even if they did take a vote, it is not something they can pass off to individual unit holders. The BC is stuck with its responsibilities and these cannot be voted away.

 

[craigb]

Hm, thought about the abseiling craig but they need to enter the top penthouse to get an anchorage - and as if anyone would give them permission to do that!

Thanks guys, I was gobsmacked when I found out that responsibility was transferred over - it makes no sense! Here are pictures of our delightful window!

Buzzlightyear, how do you think I can best argue this?
And Dave, if one of these windows breaks, is it a Body Corporate expense to repair it?

PUSKA i am sure the penthouse has a roof too! They would drop right off the edge?

 

[ani]

I've lived in quite a few apartments in Sydney and the windows have always been MY responsibilty....sadly!

It costs me $100 every clean currently but no way am I hanging out an 8th floor window.

 

[Pushka]

PUSKA i am sure the penthouse has a roof too! They would drop right off the edge?

The penthouses are set back, so their balcony gets in the way! Ani, the thing is, I cant physically hangout and clean them - even if I wanted to.

I believe that the BC cant simply vote away its responsibilities so am getting the OCBA Dept involved!

 

[steveadl]

OK Pushka, I'll come at it from a different angle. By all means try and get something sorted with the body corporate, but in the mean time - is it really going to be that big a deal/expense extra to get a window cleaner to do it from the inside?

Especially if you're talking about a cherry picker only doing it properly once every 6 months? How much could a window cleaner charge you for doing it inside your apartment - $50-$100 to lean out with his professional gear? You can have it cleaned as often as the cherry picker (ie. semi annually for $200). Yes of course it will be more expensive if you have it done more often, but that's another story. Plus if you organise with a few other apartments to also do it from the inside - you'll probably get the individual job rate cheaper if they can come out and do 10 apartments at once instead of just yours. Might be much easier than trying to organise it through BC, especially if you have the manager and some of the other owners resisting.

I know when I have the outside of my ground level store window done plus the mezzanine level inside and out (requiring ladder and good balance!) it only costs about $50.

I don't reckon it'll be much cheaper than that if the body corp. handled it anyway ie. getting a cherry picker out there, 1 or 2 guys spending at least a couple days up there to do all the apartment blocks.

Anyway, just thinking out loud...

 

[Pushka]

I would be happy with only paying $100 but others have been quoted much higher. And the front windows (bedroom ones) are inaccesible (stupid arty farty modern design that has no practicality) so they have to be cleaned from the outside anyway.

I have since found out that the cleaning was never on the Agenda but was popped in under 'other issues'. Struck me as being a little sneaky.

But Steve, will pursue my own cleaning and see what I can find. Cheers

 

[steveadl]

Good luck Pushka. Just trying to think of a solution for you, but I do agree with - seeing the apartment blocks down there, it should definitely be the responsibility of body corporate and quite cheeky of them to weasle out of it.