Socialist? Are you joking?
Fabians are not so overt but the objectives are the same.
Woah. The Fairfax owned 'The Age' backs Labor.
- Thread starter DavidMc
- Start date
Fabians are not so overt but the objectives are the same.
No they're not. Well, maybe in the same way that the governments of Norway, Sweden etc are socialist.
And yes, she was a member of the Fabian society. As were Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Martin Ferguson and a load of other Au and UK Labor pollies.
It's a pretty boring and benign organisation. The only people that seem worried about it are on threads like this one http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1849246/pg1 (caution, some swearing and also may reduce your IQ by reading it)
@cimbom re: Paid maternity leave
My opinion is that we've never had paid maternity leave in the past, families have managed around it which simply makes it another form of middle class welfare. I don't agree with the baby bonus and many of the other related items over the last few years either.
Simply put, if you want to have children, you plan for it. There are numerous options for people to avoid or delay having children should they wish to or feel it's financially necessary. There's also a lot of services and options around child related services if people need to return to work after having children.
I do support various levels of government assistance for child care services and single Mum pensions. I definitely support better family planning education starting in high school.
Having a family is a right, but it also comes with a responsibility.
My opinion is that we've never had paid maternity leave in the past, families have managed around it which simply makes it another form of middle class welfare. I don't agree with the baby bonus and many of the other related items over the last few years either.
Simply put, if you want to have children, you plan for it. There are numerous options for people to avoid or delay having children should they wish to or feel it's financially necessary. There's also a lot of services and options around child related services if people need to return to work after having children.
I do support various levels of government assistance for child care services and single Mum pensions. I definitely support better family planning education starting in high school.
Having a family is a right, but it also comes with a responsibility.
Combined with her very left winged past as a 'significant' practicing member of the Socialist Forum it makes her fairly left in my opinion - moreso than any of the others you mention who in practice lead and promoted some very center/center left ideas that Gillard didn't.
EDIT: Gillard was also involved in the production and contributed to the writing of the editorial 'The Greening of the Red'.
EDIT: Gillard was also involved in the production and contributed to the writing of the editorial 'The Greening of the Red'.
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I think a mod can change the title but it depends if they're in the mood.
Great post bear, I don't think it's fair single people should subsidise the decision of others who want to breed.
As an aside, the Murdoch owned press in the UK always claims an outsize influence on the political process. This headline has entered into the national consciousness.
The reality, as usual, doesn't live up to the myth. Murdoch has proven to be very good at backing the winning party once it's apparent who they are. That issue of the Sun was for the Conservative victory in 1992, but by 1997 he'd shifted allegiance to the Labour party. In 2010 I don't recall him supporting either of the major parties, in an election that was inconclusive.
The reality, as usual, doesn't live up to the myth. Murdoch has proven to be very good at backing the winning party once it's apparent who they are. That issue of the Sun was for the Conservative victory in 1992, but by 1997 he'd shifted allegiance to the Labour party. In 2010 I don't recall him supporting either of the major parties, in an election that was inconclusive.
This is simply untrue. The public service and many large employers have long provided maternity leave at full pay. Why should a teacher get it and not a childcare worker? Why is one more worthy than the other?
The claim that we "never had it in the past" is a really poor methodology on which to base future planning/policy. We never had the lower classes getting an education in the past either, and they got by alright, but we progressed as a society.....
Although I don't qualify for any "middle class welfare", I reckon it is great to see the productive element of society getting some of their own money back. Though it would be much more efficient if they would just let us keep more of it in the first place.
Okay Hoffy, let me rephrase. In the history of Australian welfare, only the tiniest percentage have enjoyed paid maternity leave. My Mum was a teacher and she didn't get it in the 70s and 80s. Apparently my parents coped without it.
My reasoning for not supporting it isn't because I don't benefit from it as oOo suggests, there's lots of government spending that I don't benefit from which I do support. I just see this and most forms as middle class welfare as vote buying. Previous generations have coped without it, the money would be better spent on people who truly do need it.
My reasoning for not supporting it isn't because I don't benefit from it as oOo suggests, there's lots of government spending that I don't benefit from which I do support. I just see this and most forms as middle class welfare as vote buying. Previous generations have coped without it, the money would be better spent on people who truly do need it.
Despite coping without it, I wonder if they would have liked at the time?
please Don't support australia's NBN
the NBN is **expletive deleted**-poor
It was out-dated when they began to consider it
I get Hugely faster,
for 49$ any number of computers connected at the same time all being used, over fibreoptic cable, with 700+ television channels and phone service, download dvd 4GB/<2 minutes, unlimited download upload free wifi all over the country.
competition, it eats anything any government has any part of
I never got maternity leave, not even now when friends look at my belly and ask if I am pregnant
the NBN is **expletive deleted**-poor
It was out-dated when they began to consider it
I get Hugely faster,
for 49$ any number of computers connected at the same time all being used, over fibreoptic cable, with 700+ television channels and phone service, download dvd 4GB/<2 minutes, unlimited download upload free wifi all over the country.
competition, it eats anything any government has any part of
I never got maternity leave, not even now when friends look at my belly and ask if I am pregnant
I get ADSL, not ADSL2. It's OK for forums, it's no good for big downloads. Some of my phone app downloads take an hour. Downloading a hi res movie is not achievable. I can't get ADSL2 to my area, which is only just out of Canberra. Private enterprise has not been able to get good Internet so far. There are no plans to update my town.
So, because you have fantastic internet, and I don't, I shouldn't have it?
I'm not having a go at you. I just don't understand what you're saying.
Farmers, further out than you, get FiberOptic cable, gigabyte speeds, the same as I do in town. town size 16000, other town size 12000
the same WIFI, I get 40km from the nearest town, while driving
in a province with a population less than 1 million every second or third power pole has a wifi transmitter
no download limit, no overage charges, no roaming, no anything
local phone calls are free
All over the country
ADSL is prehistoric
ADSL2 is middle ages
The NBN would fall somewhere in the age of sail, in computer terms
Government interference in Aus has meant there is no commercial reason for telcos or ISPs to provide service.
Goverment NBN is out of date before it was begun, and will be a steamship before its finished
Get the govt out, let demand fuel supply, and Australia may catch up
I have to pay for internet in Aus, it is pathetic
the same WIFI, I get 40km from the nearest town, while driving
in a province with a population less than 1 million every second or third power pole has a wifi transmitter
no download limit, no overage charges, no roaming, no anything
local phone calls are free
All over the country
ADSL is prehistoric
ADSL2 is middle ages
The NBN would fall somewhere in the age of sail, in computer terms
Government interference in Aus has meant there is no commercial reason for telcos or ISPs to provide service.
Goverment NBN is out of date before it was begun, and will be a steamship before its finished
Get the govt out, let demand fuel supply, and Australia may catch up
I have to pay for internet in Aus, it is pathetic
I'm not in the boondocks, I'm in town. Free enterprise hasn't got us anything here. I have an IP in Lyneham- I can't get ADSL2 there either.
The internet here is bad, no doubt.
I had thought that the Libs' internet proposal, in your analogy, was canoe. Nowhere near as advanced as age of sail.
Australia's low population density, even in the cities, makes it more expensive to provide any type of cabling infrastructure than most other major western countries.
The internet here is bad, no doubt.
I had thought that the Libs' internet proposal, in your analogy, was canoe. Nowhere near as advanced as age of sail.
Australia's low population density, even in the cities, makes it more expensive to provide any type of cabling infrastructure than most other major western countries.
I'm sure that any recipient will like it, my wife included if she was ever to receive it. But most don't need it and there's plenty of other things in more need need of funding.
My worry is that with paid maternity leave is who will pay?
No doubt the Gubb will say the tax payers will fund it - but will they, ultimately?
My cynical head tells me that when it boils down, there will end up being a sort of means tested payment back to the business for the absent mother to be, and it won't cover the total cost of her absence...
In other words, the better it is doing, the less the payment will be.
Sounds fair, right?; help the little guy who employs only a handful of staff...
The bottom line will be more costs imposed on all businesses who have absent staff.
Will it be possible to pass it onto the consumer to protect profits? (cough, splutter).
I can envisage lots more women out of jobs...and no-one will admit why they have none in their workplace.
Happy to be proved wrong.
And any additional costs on big business will ultimately get passed on to the consumers. The big business are not a charity. Politicians are smart enough to target big business knowing well enough this is the easiest way to slug tax on the people and the people being happy about it (unknowingly).
Cheers,
Oracle.
