10 Days in 100 years

[Buddybee]

Nillumbik council has a LOT to answer for. Their green policy has certainly cost lives. My parents have lived in Nillumbik shire for over the last 30 years, and the lunacy of not being able to cut down trees, and back burn has been so costly. Thankfully my parents decided they were not going to stay in such a volitile situation and left Friday night to return Sunday afternoon.

I recall some years ago (maybe 10-15 years) their neighbour, who at the time was an active member of the Hurstbridge CFA sought permission to cut some trees to provide safe access to his property which was shrouded in trees. The shire rejected his application. He then had the CFA write a request stating that they couldn't access his property with the fire truck in the event of an emergency. The shire, CFA and the neighbour then all met on site to see the lack of access first hand. The shire then approved the removal of a couple of trees, but not what was required. I'll always remember being told "They can't cut down the rest because they might upset the ecosystem of the ants" WHAT ROT! Fortunately, the fires didn't make it as far as Nutfield.

My sister lives and teaches in Yarra Glen, I can't express the saddness, distress and raw emotion she's had each day this week given the number of families she knows caught up in this tragedy, many of whom were lucky to escape with their lives let alone other possessions.

Whilst trying to provide a stable environment for the children in her care, she is still yet to hear from a number of families. The anguish of the homeless, the worry of those missing from Steele's Creek along with the associated rumours, and the ongoing fires in Dixon's Creek and Castella she, like many close to the events are hoping that these families and children are safely out of harms way.

Buddybee

 

[units4me]

Hyperthetically speaking, if a council is partly/directly responsible for deaths/damages due to unsafe green practices, then could those individuals responsible for making the council policy be made to face manslaughter charges?

Just wondering.

 

[boomtown]

In short - no. The courts are very reluctant to interefere in the government policy making role.

Its not unconstitutional to have a tree cutting ban.

 

[fmx_rider]

Nillumbik council has a LOT to answer for. Their green policy has certainly cost lives. My parents have lived in Nillumbik shire for over the last 30 years, and the lunacy of not being able to cut down trees, and back burn has been so costly.

Buddybee

Agree. You just need to drive from Hurstbridge to Strathewen where the road literally weaves around trees to see this first-hand. Why not have 20m exclusion around the roads? Maybe there wouldn't have been as many trees falling onto the road blocking the poor people of Kinglake. Why not enforce exclusions around houses?

There are many many other factors.....so many 'what if' ideas that now retrospectively may have helped.

Including the above, these are a few more issues IMHO:
1) Wood houses burn – cheaper than brick but no good in fire.
2) Plastic or aluminium water tanks melt – cheaper than cement but no good in fire.
3) Safety bunkers probably warranted in areas with 1 road in that can be cut off (ie. Sugarloaf Rd, Kinglake, Strathewen) but need air source (eg. Compressed oxygen masks) as fire removes usable oxygen.
4) Garden hoses and buckets don’t equal adequate fire prevention. Need industrial quality/strength hoses, pumps and sprinkler systems that don't rely on power.
5) People shouldn’t expect CFA to warn them – community became complacent instead of leaving the hills as soon as they saw smoke – the CFA are too busy trying to stop fires - although the 'phone warning system' does sound like a good idea that should have been progressed quicker.
6) Footy shorts, singlets and thongs don’t protect you at all from the heat.
7) Very dry conditions in drought.
8) Weather on the day - very hot and very windy.
9) Arsonists - caused a number of these fires.

BTW I used to be a resident of this shire for 20 years, and have relatives in the fire area. Lucky their house was one of the few remaining (survived the fire) and they are alive because of it.

 

[topcropper]

 

[Bill.L]

Hi all,

With the release of some findings from the royal commission into the bushfires, I thought I would resurrect this thread.

Executive summary of interim report.....

http://www.royalcommission.vic.gov.au/Interim-Report/Intro-pages/Executive-summary


One thing the RC dished was that of inadequate warning, despite what I have heard in the media to the contrary, I agree completely with the RC.

I even posted the following here 12 to 18 hours before the fires hit most areas.....

I've been in the local fire brigade for 20 years, tomorrow err today, we have an event that is potentially lethal across the state. The conditions are predicted to be as bad as they can get. Any small fire will quickly explode into a large fire.

bye

 

[Sunfish]

I've never forgotten that post Bill. Never will.

I'm too far away to have an informed opinion but if you knew, so did many others. Trouble is, there still seems to more *** covering than reform. let's hope that reform is forced through now but that was not the first time.

We seem to allow ourselves to be distracted by the spurious things.

Hope you have a better summer, but we are being warned in Qld now. We had an early, heavy wet followed by a long record dry winter. Townsville will be OK but up north around Cairns and the Tablelands it might be bad. Rapidly getting too late for controlled burns.

 

[battler]

Hi, Bill, They can have all the royal commissions they like, but until they understand the Fire Triangle it is pointless.

As you would know,to have fire you only need three things, Heat, oxygen and fuel, remove any one of those and there is no fire, ok, we can't change the temperature of the day or the oxygen levels, and yes high winds increase oxygen input so the only thing we can control is the fuel levels.

As someone that was involved in firebreak construction and maintenance for over 30 years in the Dandenong ranges, I have seen a continual reduction in firebreaks and buffer zones due to costing. At one time they were making 3 metre wide firebreaks through scrub 5 metres high around houses in steep country.

I was in ST Georges rd Beaconsfield with a Forests Commission tanker where the the CFA volunteers perished on Ash Wednesday, we went in there, put out a couple of houses, ran out of water, headed back out to find nothing left on either side of the road where we had come in from, and people running out of the burnt scrub trying to get a ride out on the truck.

It is sad that after Ash Wednesday that they increased clearing, but with a change in name to Conservation Forests and Lands in 1985 or 6 the the department was able to lock up areas and reduce clearing (and costs) in the name of conservation.

 

[Perp]

I've never forgotten that post Bill. Never will.

Me, either. What a shame that, for whatever reason, the message didn't get through to so many homeowners.

 

[lizzie]

we passed thru the victorian area around 3 weeks before the fires - and i had commented to hubby that i found it amazing that people built their houses "in the middle of the bush with no thought to a clear zone".

many of the houses we saw had numerous tall eucalyptus towering over the house itself ... as someone who lived backing onto a large bush reserve, and would scrub clear for 10 metres past our back boundary every year, i found this disregard for the forces of the australian summer bush mindboggling.

but you just can't tell some people. they can have all the commissions they like but with such an unpredictable force (australian bushfires), that create their own unpredictable weather patterns, there is only a certain amount of planning that can be done.

i really feel for the firies that have to go in, risk their lives (and sometimes lose them), to battle these fires to try and save insufficiently protected property or people who are too stubborn to leave.

call me a chicken, but at the first hint i would be loading the car with the personal docs (passport etc) and a few clothes so that if something sparked all i had to do was throw in the kid and pets and run like hell - bugger the house, it can be replaced!

 

[topcropper]

they can have all the commissions they like but with such an unpredictable force (australian bushfires), that create their own unpredictable weather patterns, there is only a certain amount of planning that can be done.

call me a chicken, but at the first hint i would be loading the car with the personal docs (passport etc) and a few clothes so that if something sparked all i had to do was throw in the kid and pets and run like hell - bugger the house, it can be replaced!

Exactly. On days like Feb 7, or the Canberra fires a few years earlier, the only thing that can be done is to get out of the way. I'm sure it's nice living in a eucalypt forest, but it's not for me. If people want to live in the middle of a eucalypt forest, in a traditionally wet winter/dry summer area, then they must put up with the downside as well.

See ya's.

 

[marg4000]

Our son has just built a house down on the Great Ocean Road, directly opposite the Otway National Park. He had to spend about $20K extra on fire prevention measures, including $800 for fire-resistant paint for the deck, steel screens on windows and doors, a 10,000L storage tank with CFA coupling, and others.

BUT he was NOT allowed to cut down 5 trees that are less than 60cm from his house (and have branches that hang over the roof)!! Council actually marked the trees that could be removed for the house footprint only. House commenced March 09, completed June 09.

Sheer lunacy.
Marg