5 year fixed rates thread

You guys cant be serious. Unemployment is trending upwards and i'd say the one month 5.8% result is a temporary result of stimulus and grants etc.

Why does everyone get so excited about a minor statistical result like this?

Do you expect it to top at this level, fall or keep rising?
Evand,

You're a good guy who's contributions I really value so I'm bighting my tongue, but I genuinely think you're point of view is rapidly becoming the deviation to the norm...

I'm not alone in reading the very strong job market results this month as a good indication of economic strength and as heightening the risk of RBA rate increases sooner rather than later. Sure, it might all be some statistical anomaly and we might still be going to suffer this really nasty recession or something like that, but personally, I'm really starting to doubt it...

Sometimes the facts are the facts.

Rate rise looms on the horizon

SMH said:
Australian employment blew away expectations by rising 32,200 in July to keep the jobless rate steady at 5.8 per cent, a startling sign of strength that added greatly to the risk of an early hike in interest rates.

The Australian dollar firmed while bill futures slid as investors added to bets the Reserve Bank might soon begin to lift its cash rate from a record low of 3.0 per cent.

"Magnificent," declared Adam Carr, chief economist at broker ICAP. "I don't think there can be any debate about which direction the cash rate is going. I still think the first hike will come in December, but there are risks of a move earlier."

But hey, what do I know...

Cheers,
Michael
 
Jonathon,

In answer to your question
I locked in 5.94% for 5 yrs Bank S.A. signed end of April and it was effective from June 4th. It was a little bit simpler for me to make the decision. (Thx again Keith and WW for your charts and generous knowledge sharing :))
I was on average variable negotiated lo docs which were about 5.3% average. Therefore only .65 point difference. Fixed for SANF more than anything. I'm very happy with my decision.
Still, I would not be fixing them NOW. It has gone to 7.4?% for 5 years I think. Too much of a gap for me to see the benefit now.

However plenty would have had me believe it wasn't a small enough gap to lock when we did. Just different paths to a common goal.

Jo
 
I'm not alone in reading the very strong job market results this month as a good indication of economic strength and as heightening the risk of RBA rate increases sooner rather than later.

A variety of opinion is good Michael. As long as we can all keep backing it rationally with reasonable data/stats.

The sheep were bleating for years that Roubini and Schiller were idiots.


Let's consider the decision the RBA has to take.
What happens if they raise rates, say, twice this year?
Will the banks care? Haven't they done things in their own sweet way for the last 6 mths.
Might the RBA have to be even more cautious than usual considering the first home owners bonus/boost is being wound back.

Where's the advantage in the RBA increasing rates if retail turnover and credit card debt are still falling, and housing finance takes a hit when the terminated fhb bb's knock sales?

And what would it say about Rudd's economic managment, if the RBA was to come in and lift rates before the fhb stimulus ended? If I was the Coalition, I'd go to town on Rudd over that......for Rudd reaching so recklessly into future tax revenue to so overstimulate the economy as to force the RBA to reach into the tax payer's pocket and pull out cash in the form of higher rates. So the taxpayer cops it from both ends. What a ridiculous situation.

If the RBA raise rates this year, my view is it will have less to do with property prices, and more to do with continuing to attract foreign investment in public and private debt, at a time when the whole world is in an unprecedented competition for capital.
 
Very wise logic WW, never forget the politics.

The next Fed election is 2010. The libs will win if

  1. they elect Costello Leader
  2. they get past the 2010 fed budget tax hikes and RBA rises, thereby showing the public what this stimuls is going to cost long term

    and
  3. they elect Costello Leader

Labour must be hoping for ANY reason to go now because it seems, in 2010, we are in for either higher interest rates or higher unemplyment, or possibly, both.:eek:

Peter
 
A variety of opinion is good Michael. As long as we can all keep backing it rationally with reasonable data/stats.
Completely agree Winston, which is what I pointed out in my reply to Evand

Evand, You're a good guy who's contributions I really value...

If the RBA raise rates this year, my view is it will have less to do with property prices, and more to do with continuing to attract foreign investment in public and private debt, at a time when the whole world is in an unprecedented competition for capital.

Also agree, as I loosely alluded to in my initial post:

If this keeps playing out as it looks then we're in for some really solid economic upside in Australia. Keith might well have called it correctly, but only time will tell... I'm still happy staying variable for now as the RBA is in a bit of a bind on where to move rates.

Very interesting times indeed. By no means guaranteed that the RBA will move rates higher earlier on the back of this result, but the point I made is that it increases the risk of this occurring. i.e. Its more fuel for the rate rise fire.

Personally, still happy staying variable as there's a lot more issues at play than just the unemployment rate. You've covered off nicely the bind that the RBA finds itself in now and some of the things working against an early rate rise.

Cheers,
Michael
 
I think the chance of say 8% rates is as possible as 2% rates at the moment.

No-one knows and most are scared about getting it wrong, again.

Peter
 
I think the chance of say 8% rates is as possible as 2% rates at the moment.

No-one knows and most are scared about getting it wrong, again.

Yes, but this is fear is good to have (if there is such a thing :p). I need to stick to my risk-control strategy regardless of what i THINK is likely to happen and when i THINK it's likely to happen. Is that because i'm particularly dumb & my guesses are less valid than others (eeasy on!)?
No. It's because i recognise my guesses for what they are - exactly the same worth as every other person's guesses, be they journalists, economists or learned Somersoftians. I think I can make cogent arguments either way, but i don't see that this is particularly useful. I like these threads almost as an intellectual curiosity, but it probably won't make much difference to my actions. Given my situation, my strategy has always been to fix the vast portion of my debt, and I did that at 6.19% (5-10yrs). My guess at the time was that credit would hopefully loosen up over the next couple of years thus the fixed rate premium would come back down. Yet i fixed anyway. At the end of the 5 & 10 year periods I could (unlikely, as i never have before) calculate to see whether i was "right." We'll only know with a retrospectoscope. But i will regard my actions as "right" for me regardless of the outcome, as we already know that markets are irrational despite rational arguments about how they should behave.
 
I always had the feeling that the bottom would be around April or May - thats why I thought about breaking my fixed term rates in January...
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=507060#post507060
Now its too late in my opinion - Westpac allow you to fix two weeks before your fixed rate ends - 24th August minus two weeks equals 10th August - but of course Westpac decided to lift on the 4th and there was nothing I could do about it.
With the difference now at 2.4% , whats the point in fixing ? To me, its too late.
Added to that was NAB not fixing my SMSF 3 months ago for 4 or 5 years at 6.09%...at least I was able to fix our latest loan in April for 3 months at 5.6% (with 7% return) , thats the best we could do.
 
CBA moved fixed rates up again..... :mad:

Suprise, suprise:rolleyes: the fact is the big 4 have the market cleaned up!

Last time rates went up they have competitors keeping them honest. This time is different. Unless the Fed gov lets OS banks in rates will reflect your rep and nothing to do with your business.

Peter
 
And on the other hand, the IMF is stating that the RBA should consider more rate cuts!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/10/2651432.htm

ABC said:
"We're significantly exposed to the revision of all of the export contracts, even though China looks like growing and Japan has got good figures out this morning on its trade and manufacturing," he said.

"We are facing lower contract prices and that will affect our receipts, and our volumes may well hold up, but our revenues will fall. And I think it also still depends upon what happens in the US.

"I think the benefits of the low interest rates on growth have been overrated. I think the major benefits have been taking the pressure off the indebted households and I think right now if the RBA was to increase interest rates, that would be a fairly, in my view, irresponsible way to go."

Like Professor Mitchell, the IMF is also worried by the high level of borrowing by Australian households.

I still think the RBA will hold rates steady for longer than most anticipate.

Cheers,
Michael
 
Update - managing my interest rate risk!

Once my older fixed rate loans expire later this year, and new ones get drawn down, my state of play will be a bit like this (depending on the SVR then of course):

NAB 26% of total borrowings @ 6.89% pa fixed for 3 years
Bankwest 22% of total borrowings @ 6.69% pa fixed for 3 years
WBC 22% of total borrowings @ 5.11% pa variable
CBA 30% of total borrowings @ 4.99% pa variable

So 48% fixed and 52% variable.

(I'd be curious to hear how others have done things for their own portfolio's...)

And split between 4 major banks (well 3 really as CBA owns Bankwest), with less than $1MM borrowings per bank, and for 5 RIP's.

My budgeting going forward though will assume variable rates of at least 6.5% pa.

Would've been nice to get a 5 year fix, but Bankwest was my only fixable loan when rates bottomed in April, and it moved up a bit too quick and too much by the time the uptrend was established for me.

The main error for me in this interest rate game was fixing half of my loans for 2 years (in 2007, late in the cycle), when in hindsight 1 year would have been better, and then snoozing when rates plummeted and missing the window to unfix those loans with a small break cost at the time.

I think the 5 year fixed rates are too high to be of $ benefit now.

3 year fixed rates in the mid-high 6's are OK for me, mainly for SANF though rather than $ saving, but over 7...forget it.

My plan with my 3 year fixed rate loans would be to re-finance to another bank at the end of the 3 year period and get a 12 mth discounted introductory variable rate reverting to the standard discounted rate at the time (if such discounts exist of course!), to reduce the pain of coming off fixed rates at a time of higher variable rates.

I have doubled my borrowings this year, and reached my target of 5 RIP's in 5 years, so it's been quite productive!

Did get a re-finance of a loan to CBA and St. George knocked back in the process though!

The more experience I get, the more central I see that financing/LVR/interest rates are to property investing. Lots of lessons for me on this in the last 12 mths, so I might be better prepared next time round!
 
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=amrrzlGGFtTU

Aug. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Bank of England Governor Mervyn King said inflation may miss the central bank’s target over the next three years, prompting officials to last week expand their bond- purchase program to guarantee an economic recovery.

King said it’s “more likely than not” that inflation will slow below 1 percent this year and stay below the bank’s main 2 percent target until at least the end of 2012. The bank’s revised forecasts, released in London, also show economic growth may resume on an annual basis by 2010. Bond yields fell.

Doesn't look rates are going up in the UK for a while, and our own RBA does like to monitor what is happening in other markets in setting the rates here.
 
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