$58,325 is comfortable for who??

[kathryn d]

I'm not sure your claim that I put a lot of value in consumerism has all that much merit

Then again we established a long time ago that you and I look at the world very differently.

The fact is though there is absolutely nothing out there to support your claim that overall it costs the same to live in Australia vs USA once housing costs are removed

Others from Australia, who's parents are retired, as well as my own Australian, Melbourne based MIL should be good enough.

Some people are never secure enough, no matter how much money they have.
Their idea of the the more it costs, the better it is, holds true for these people.

 

[kathryn d]

So you haven't lived in the USA then? How do you know what the COL is there then?

I do read a lot of blogs from the USA, and they talk a lot about their expenses.

 

[HomePage]

I do read a lot of blogs from the USA, and they talk a lot about their expenses.

Oh, so your indirect anecdotal evidence is better than my direct experience and a couple of supporting web source links on the matter?

I think it is time you put up a bit of evidence. Can you therefore please post up some links of relevant posts from these USA blogs that make such claims of USA COL being similar to Australia.

 

[MTR]

I can only go from my experience, I lived in USA for around 18 months and found it cheaper than Australia at that time. Been back several times on hols and as a tourist always found it cheaper than Oz terms of food, accommodation, travelling within USA. Wages are most certainly lower, I know this one for sure.

I think those stats are interesting, will have a little more of a play with these, and look at other countries. Thanks for posting these.

Seems like some here can happily retire on $58,000

I am not a "shop till I drop type of gal", and I dont even think I spend excessively in general but perhaps I live in Perth, perhaps that in part is why $58,000 is not enough. I know when travelling East (Syd/Melb/Bris, food etc much cheaper, housing too, except Syd after the recent boom cycle.

Its also probably got something to do with my children, one has left home, but we paid for her accommodation/uni fees she spent a year in New York.
Give them up and perhaps $58,000 fine, but I doubt it somehow

MTR

 

[sanj]

Others from Australia, who's parents are retired, as well as my own Australian, Melbourne based MIL should be good enough.

Some people are never secure enough, no matter how much money they have.
Their idea of the the more it costs, the better it is, holds true for these people.

Anecdotes are not more accurate than cold hard stats and I really have no idea what how secure people feel has to do with unbiased stats.

 

[oc1]

Anecdotes are not more accurate than cold hard stats and I really have no idea what how secure people feel has to do with unbiased stats.

It doesn't. She's just deflecting.

 

[sanj]

Oh, so your indirect anecdotal evidence is better than my direct experience and a couple of supporting web source links on the matter?

I think it is time you put up a bit of evidence. Can you therefore please post up some links of relevant posts from these USA blogs that make such claims of USA COL being similar to Australia.

My mates cousin has a cute dog, that dog's vet's neighbor told me the sky is actually green so therefore it's trtrue

 

[kathryn d]

Oh, so your indirect anecdotal evidence is better than my direct experience and a couple of supporting web source links on the matter?

I think it is time you put up a bit of evidence. Can you therefore please post up some links of relevant posts from these USA blogs that make such claims of USA COL being similar to Australia.

Sure...who are we going to use for comparison for Australia?
A person who spend like sanj or a person who spends like my MIL?

What I'm trying to get at, everyone is different.
What my MIL spends would be nothing compared to sanj.

People here say they need $300 wk for 2 people for groceries...we eat for $50. (on average)

I guess this will need to be another thread we will never agree on.

 

[baby blue eyes]

Cars are more expensive here...... As are a lot of imported goods. Now our exchange rate is dropping the cost becomes more expensive.

 

[kathryn d]

These people are starting to consider early retirement.
This is their budget, which I'm sure would be different from their neighbour.
So it doesn't prove or disprove anything.



http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/family-of-3-budget/

Family of 3 (me, DW, and 2 y/o boy) + a 145lbs dog and our only debt is our mortgage. Net take home is $6600/month.

Overview:
Tax advantaged investments: $1700
Mortgage: $1550 (principle, interest, insurance, & $200 additional principle)
Additional Savings: $350 (vacations, college, & emergencies)
Spending: $2800
Anything left over goes to taxable investments: ~$200

Our spending breaks down on average like:
Gas/Electric: $110
Internet: $65
Car Insurance (2 cars and a motorcycle): $75
Credit monitoring: $11
HOA: $22
Cell Phones: $60 (2 smartphones on Ting)
Gas: $100
Groceries: $400 (only groceries, no household good)
Eating out: $150
Dog: $55
Baby stuff: $50
Misc spending: $1700 (includes everything from household goods, to electronics, to airline tickets)

Overall I'm fairly happy and on my way to FI. I'm in a much better place that I was before MMM. I'm happy with each category except for the eating out and misc spending. I would like to knock those down significantly and I'm working on it one day at a time.

 

[MTR]

Cars are more expensive here...... As are a lot of imported goods. Now our exchange rate is dropping the cost becomes more expensive.

Yep, Au$ 81 last time I looked, if predictions are correct 70 next year some time, which means from dizzy heights of when Au$ was 1.08 we are looking at least 30% increase for imported cars ouch, not to mention what else/products will be effected and hurt our little pockets.

 

[HomePage]

Sure...who are we going to use for comparison for Australia?
A person who spend like sanj or a person who spends like my MIL?

What I'm trying to get at, everyone is different.
What my MIL spends would be nothing compared to sanj.

People here say they need $300 wk for 2 people for groceries...we eat for $50. (on average)

I guess this will need to be another thread we will never agree on.

And the point you are not getting (besides show us some evidence!) is that my experience, as a reasonably consistent and frugal consumer over the years, covers both countries over notable periods of time. It was not only noticeably cheaper living in the USA, I have 20 years worth of Quicken living expense data, 7 in the USA and 13 in Australia, to prove it. Don't you think that's a far more substantial comparison basis than what you are presenting?


I live very frugally here in Australia (< $30K , but I can't

 

[oc1]

And the point you are not getting (besides show us some evidence!) is that my experience, as a reasonably consistent and frugal consumer over the years, covers both countries over notable periods of time. It was not only noticeably cheaper living in the USA, I have 20 years worth of Quicken living expense data, 7 in the USA and 13 in Australia, to prove it. Don't you think that's a far more substantial comparison basis than what you are presenting?


I live very frugally here in Australia (< $30K , but I can't

It's a common human trait: closed mindedness where perception leads to reality.

 

[kathryn d]

And the point you are not getting (besides show us some evidence!) is that my experience, as a reasonably consistent and frugal consumer over the years, covers both countries over notable periods of time. It was not only noticeably cheaper living in the USA, I have 20 years worth of Quicken living expense data, 7 in the USA and 13 in Australia, to prove it. Don't you think that's a far more substantial comparison basis than what you are presenting?


I live very frugally here in Australia (< $30K , but I can't

Nothing I can do about that....I'm certainly not going to go searching for something, that won't make a bit of difference.

however...
for example let's look at minimum wage
USA $8...can buy 8- $1 hamburgers
AUS $16 ...can buy 16 -$1 hamburgers (Macca's have them at lunchtime) or 8-$2 hamburgers.

What does it prove?
Nothing.

 

[sanj]

Sure...who are we going to use for comparison for Australia?
A person who spend like sanj or a person who spends like my MIL?

What I'm trying to get at, everyone is different.
What my MIL spends would be nothing compared to sanj.

People here say they need $300 wk for 2 people for groceries...we eat for $50. (on average)

I guess this will need to be another thread we will never agree on.

Kathryn, it really doesn't matter how u look at it. What is being compared is like for like, ie cost of the same number/ttype of groceriss in australia vs America. It is more expensive here vs there it really is as simple as that no matter what your MIL or her neighbor beryl thinks.

Their opinions and anecdotes, along with yours and mine are entirely irrelevant and almost useless when cold hard stats are available

 

[moyjos]

Seems like some here can happily retire on $58,000

I am not a "shop till I drop type of gal", and I dont even think I spend excessively in general but perhaps I live in Perth, perhaps that in part is why $58,000 is not enough. I know when travelling East (Syd/Melb/Bris, food etc much cheaper, housing too, except Syd after the recent boom cycle.

Its also probably got something to do with my children, one has left home, but we paid for her accommodation/uni fees she spent a year in New York.
Give them up and perhaps $58,000 fine, but I doubt it somehow

MTR

Try tracking ALL your expenses for a while (6-12 months) then you can distill your spending down to what is actually needed. Work related expenses can tend to bump the figures around a bit. clothes & shoes..you wouldn't need those $300 6inch heels or that $500 conservative suit in retirement. . Look at the clothing you were on holidays and weekends. Lunches at work? Etc etc etc.

As we are self employed, I have tested the "pension" theory a number of times by paying ourselves the pension amount only to live on (the mortgage still gets paid separately) we have not seen any significant drop in lifestyle. It is probably better as we watch our spending closer and get creative with each dollar. (eg. Scoopon vouchers etc to try restaraunts other than our "usuals" has found quite a few usuals )

 

[kathryn d]

Kathryn, it really doesn't matter how u look at it. What is being compared is like for like, ie cost of the same number/ttype of groceriss in australia vs America. It is more expensive here vs there it really is as simple as that no matter what your MIL or her neighbor beryl thinks.

Their opinions and anecdotes, along with yours and mine are entirely irrelevant and almost useless when cold hard stats are available

The price of anything, in one state, will not be the same in another state.
The price varies greatly in the same town, between stores.

Maybe you only shop at the same place...but we don't.

I'm sure you would like to think it is more expensive here, but that doesn't make it true.

Your whole chickens are cheaper here...does that make Australia cheaper than Canada? no.

 

[Terry_w]

I know of a number of pensioners who survive well on the pension and still take overseas trips, have newish cars, nice home and are doing well - with no other income at all.

I think it is very important to do a budget for a year at least and to work out what you actually spend. You then can have a good idea of what you will need in retirement.

I have spoken to clients about retirement and asked what the goal is in terms of income and not one has really given me a figure they can justify. Most seem to pick a round number like $100,000 and when I ask why they need so much they cannot really say why. One couple even said their goal was $500,000 per year in passive income - but they were earning about $100,000 each so I am not sure why they would need or want double what they are earning now.

Also consider that when you 'retire' some expenses you incur now will disappear - such as work clothing, travel to work, lunches, general business expenses etc. But on the other hand with more time you may develop more hobbies - which don't necessarily mean much more in expenses.

Travel is probably the biggest expense to jump on retirement, but if you plan right a person could rent out the PPOR and travel the world for a while living on the rent generated.

 

[HomePage]

Nothing I can do about that....I'm certainly not going to go searching for something, that won't make a bit of difference.

however...
for example let's look at minimum wage
USA $8...can buy 8- $1 hamburgers
AUS $16 ...can buy 16 -$1 hamburgers (Macca's have them at lunchtime) or 8-$2 hamburgers.

What does it prove?
Nothing.

It proves that your argument is nothing more than fluffy opinion whereas mine is based on facts.

 

[kathryn d]

It proves that your argument is nothing more than fluffy opinion whereas mine is based on facts.

yes...I'm sure you are right

http://www.budgetdirect.com.au/costofliving/


Melbourne and Seattle are the same....New York is more expensive