8 month old IP -roof just collapsed tonight !!!
- Thread starter letiha
- Start date
ausprop - sorry mate but you're wrong - leases do not automatically terminate. and if relocation is forced due to inability to inhabit a leased property then the owner (or their insurance) is responsible for the expenses.
Well I know as an owner I would want to know at 2am that there has been damage, why - to see if more damge could be prevented. and really it was 8pm on a tuesday not exactly A/H - plus the emergency repairs person didn't answer the phone afterwards.
Well its now almost the end of the day everyone has been and had a look and guess what has been done . NOTHINg
Well its now almost the end of the day everyone has been and had a look and guess what has been done . NOTHINg
The way the builder has fixed the ceiling looks odd it looks like the plasterboard has been glued to the roof trusses.
We typically use metal ceiling battens and the plaster board gets screwed to the battens. This gives the ceiling some flexibility and less chance of warping or cracking.
We typically use metal ceiling battens and the plaster board gets screwed to the battens. This gives the ceiling some flexibility and less chance of warping or cracking.
I think that is becoming commonplace these days - in fact i think my place has been done the same - the plaster is glued directly to the timber work and then plaster nails are driven through the plaster from the room side up into the battens...i agree its not ideal and the bracing is a far more secure way to do it.
Just another example of the cost cutting going on these days. I know in Tassie the price per square ie 10ftx10ft these days is about $15,000 and I continually see new houses being advertised at around $9,000 or $10,000 per square. I just cant see how they can undercut by so much. Some builders are not so much cutting their rates to build cheap houses its usually the quality of workmanship and the quality of the products.
Like we always say you get what you pay for so it is always a good idea to have a basic understanding of the job you want done ie. do a little homework.
Anyway thats just my little gripe at some of the building practices these days
I for one will always pay a bit more for a quality job and finish.
I hope all works out well for you Letiha and if shoddy building is to blame lets hope the builder will fix things properly for you.
I don't like being wrong... I was a little bit off...
"When tenancy may be ended
...........
(f) If the property is wholly or partly destroyed or cannot be
lived in or is taken over by any authority by legal process,
the tenant may give two days’ notice, or the owner may give
seven days’ notice, ending the tenancy."
fair enough - bad choice of words.
unfortunately you're still a little bit off - that applies to WA and some commonwealth territories administered by WA like Christmas island etc...Letiha's story applies to QLD... up here if the tenant wishes to break the agreement because of inability to inhabit a premises under lease they need to issue a notice of intention to leave under the relevant provisions of the Act - i'll see if i can find the appropriate stuff for here...
here it is...all references taken from the Residential Tenancies Act 1994 (QLD)
178 Notice of intention to leave if agreement frustrated
(1) The tenant may give a notice of intention to leave the premises to the lessor because the premises—
(a) have been destroyed, or made completely or partially
unfit to live in, other than because of a breach of the
agreement; or
(b) no longer may be used lawfully as a residence; or
(c) have been appropriated or acquired compulsorily by an authority.
(2) A notice of intention to leave under this section must be given
within 1 month after the happening of the event mentioned in
subsection (1).
(3) A notice of intention to leave under subsection (1)(a) or (b) is
called a notice of intention to leave for non-livability.
also for Letiha's info - if the repairs are still not made and mum doesn't want to leave...Two choices remain - either issue a Notice to Remedy Breach or have the immediate basic repairs done and invoice the owners...
per
126 Tenant may arrange for emergency repairs to be made
(1) This section applies—
(a) if—
(i) the tenant has been unable to notify the lessor or nominated repairer of the need for emergency repairs of the premises or inclusions; or
(ii) the repairs are not made within a reasonable time
after notice is given; and
(b) if the residential tenancy is not a short tenancy
(moveable dwelling).
(2) The tenant may arrange for a suitably qualified person to
make the repairs.
127 Costs of emergency repairs arranged by tenant
(1) The maximum amount that may be incurred for emergency repairs arranged to be made by the tenant is an amount equal to the amount payable under the agreement for 2 weeks rent.
(2) The tenant may require the lessor—
(a) to reimburse the tenant for any amount properly incurred by the tenant for the repairs; or s 128 91 s 128 Residential Tenancies Act 1994
(b) to pay the amount properly incurred for the repairs direct to the actual repairer.
(3) The requirement must—
(a) be made by written notice given to the lessor; and
(b) be supported by appropriate documents about the incurring of the amount; and
(c) state that, if the lessor does not comply with the requirement within 7 days after receiving the notice, the tenant may apply to a tribunal for an order about the reimbursement or payment of the amount.
Examples of appropriate documents for subsection (3)(b)— invoices, accounts and receipts
unfortunately you're still a little bit off - that applies to WA and some commonwealth territories administered by WA like Christmas island etc...Letiha's story applies to QLD... up here if the tenant wishes to break the agreement because of inability to inhabit a premises under lease they need to issue a notice of intention to leave under the relevant provisions of the Act - i'll see if i can find the appropriate stuff for here...
here it is...all references taken from the Residential Tenancies Act 1994 (QLD)
178 Notice of intention to leave if agreement frustrated
(1) The tenant may give a notice of intention to leave the premises to the lessor because the premises—
(a) have been destroyed, or made completely or partially
unfit to live in, other than because of a breach of the
agreement; or
(b) no longer may be used lawfully as a residence; or
(c) have been appropriated or acquired compulsorily by an authority.
(2) A notice of intention to leave under this section must be given
within 1 month after the happening of the event mentioned in
subsection (1).
(3) A notice of intention to leave under subsection (1)(a) or (b) is
called a notice of intention to leave for non-livability.
also for Letiha's info - if the repairs are still not made and mum doesn't want to leave...Two choices remain - either issue a Notice to Remedy Breach or have the immediate basic repairs done and invoice the owners...
per
126 Tenant may arrange for emergency repairs to be made
(1) This section applies—
(a) if—
(i) the tenant has been unable to notify the lessor or nominated repairer of the need for emergency repairs of the premises or inclusions; or
(ii) the repairs are not made within a reasonable time
after notice is given; and
(b) if the residential tenancy is not a short tenancy
(moveable dwelling).
(2) The tenant may arrange for a suitably qualified person to
make the repairs.
127 Costs of emergency repairs arranged by tenant
(1) The maximum amount that may be incurred for emergency repairs arranged to be made by the tenant is an amount equal to the amount payable under the agreement for 2 weeks rent.
(2) The tenant may require the lessor—
(a) to reimburse the tenant for any amount properly incurred by the tenant for the repairs; or s 128 91 s 128 Residential Tenancies Act 1994
(b) to pay the amount properly incurred for the repairs direct to the actual repairer.
(3) The requirement must—
(a) be made by written notice given to the lessor; and
(b) be supported by appropriate documents about the incurring of the amount; and
(c) state that, if the lessor does not comply with the requirement within 7 days after receiving the notice, the tenant may apply to a tribunal for an order about the reimbursement or payment of the amount.
Examples of appropriate documents for subsection (3)(b)— invoices, accounts and receipts
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Haha. How many building certifiers have you seen climbing ladders and crawling in roof spaces?
I'm yet to find one!
What else has happened Leitha? Dying to know more..... What is the outcome?
Whoa... Cowboy. Thats a lotta text!? Damn.
Cya
Aaron
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sorry dude - get a bit carried away with legislation - i'm pretty anal with getting things right...
wow that sucks - and I thought the RTA was loaded in the tenants favour in WA! i assumed any provisions on the east coast would be less harsh to the owner. the old assumption! good luck resi owners.... you now have an extended family, perhaps clear out the back room to make some more space
The builder has not done anything wrong by using the direct fixing method. It is just a cheaper way of doing things. Usually such problems do not arise and the builder should approach his subcontractor to fix the problem. A builders warranty usually is 6 months for a general warranty and 6 years structural. However, it may not be considered a structural fault therefore he may not be liable.
It pays to be careful when reading through a builders contract. The specifications list will itemise each component going into the house.
However, builders are known to take shortcuts. I have seen homes go up with no insulation on the walls etc. Some builders must have stages certifeid by engineers without site inspections. As this is the only way they can get away with some of the shortcuts I have seen in the building trade.
It pays to be careful when reading through a builders contract. The specifications list will itemise each component going into the house.
However, builders are known to take shortcuts. I have seen homes go up with no insulation on the walls etc. Some builders must have stages certifeid by engineers without site inspections. As this is the only way they can get away with some of the shortcuts I have seen in the building trade.
This situation has made be double check what my builders are doing with mine, I'm satisfied and have been able to inspect iit my self to confirm.
By the way, they finally cleaned up the mess at the house, apparently they are going to put a tarp over the hole till they decide what to do. The Garage has now been turned into a lounge room because this room is not usuable.
I have 2 words in mind : rent reduction
By the way, they finally cleaned up the mess at the house, apparently they are going to put a tarp over the hole till they decide what to do. The Garage has now been turned into a lounge room because this room is not usuable.
I have 2 words in mind : rent reduction
Guys, I think everyone is over reacting a bit...
A similar thing happened to a place I was living in (dad owned it). There was a leak from un upstairs unit bathroom. Body corporate organised the plumbers who were jackhammering away most of the day. The next day the bathroom ceiling collapsed due to concrete waste and water...
The leak was fixed, the bathroom cleaned and the ceiling replaced.. no drama and nothing but an inconvenience.
Nailing the plasterboard direct to trusses is fine and provides better bracing than using battens. The battens do allow for levelling and more flexibility though.
This looks like the plasterboard has simply come off either through too much weight from the loose insulation maybe with some rain and with some wind pressure from the storm. If anyone is at fault it is the plasterboard fixer.. maybe the glue was already off when the board was stuck on or the screws/nails were spaced too far or broke the surface paper which reduces their holding power.
I agree a simple rent reduction while repairs are carried out should be enough.
the roof collapsing and the ceiling collapsing are two pretty different things.. and this certianly doen't appear structural.. you can see the roof trusses.
Cheers
Pulse
A similar thing happened to a place I was living in (dad owned it). There was a leak from un upstairs unit bathroom. Body corporate organised the plumbers who were jackhammering away most of the day. The next day the bathroom ceiling collapsed due to concrete waste and water...
The leak was fixed, the bathroom cleaned and the ceiling replaced.. no drama and nothing but an inconvenience.
Nailing the plasterboard direct to trusses is fine and provides better bracing than using battens. The battens do allow for levelling and more flexibility though.
This looks like the plasterboard has simply come off either through too much weight from the loose insulation maybe with some rain and with some wind pressure from the storm. If anyone is at fault it is the plasterboard fixer.. maybe the glue was already off when the board was stuck on or the screws/nails were spaced too far or broke the surface paper which reduces their holding power.
I agree a simple rent reduction while repairs are carried out should be enough.
the roof collapsing and the ceiling collapsing are two pretty different things.. and this certianly doen't appear structural.. you can see the roof trusses.
Cheers
Pulse
Totally disagree with this one Pulse. Roof Trusses typically are at 900mm centres and Batterns at 600mm therefore the batterns will proide extra strength and bracing for both the gyprock and the trusses. Obviously if you have something nailed every 600mm instead of 900mm it will be stronger. Plaster is not solid enough to use as a brace and it simply is a cheap way of doing it. I have done a lot of construction over the years and never once fixed plaster direct to trusses. It's quite probably perfectly legal but in my opinion nowhere near as strong.
Only as strong as the paper on its faces. (not very)
Although the ceiling side is slightly stronger, (it has paint on it).
Dave
I'll explain a bit more, The normal furring channels such as Rondo 129 channels are clipped to the bottom chords of the roof trusses. These clips can slide up and down the channel so don't provide any lateral bracing of the bottom chords.
On the other hand plasterboard used in wall framing is included in bracing calculations as "nominal bracing", not much only 0.75kN/m. This quote is from the timber framing manual:
Plasterbaord only spans 600mm so if you have trusses at 900 or 1200 you need battens. If it is 600 then battens aren't needed and bracing will actually be better than with (clipped) battens.
Cheers
Pulse
On the other hand plasterboard used in wall framing is included in bracing calculations as "nominal bracing", not much only 0.75kN/m. This quote is from the timber framing manual:
Plasterbaord only spans 600mm so if you have trusses at 900 or 1200 you need battens. If it is 600 then battens aren't needed and bracing will actually be better than with (clipped) battens.
Cheers
Pulse
Just wanted to add that if timber battens were used and not the normal rondo channels it would be stronger. The gyprock ceiling installation manual shows what is considered acceptable installation, I would compare this manual to the construction details in your house to see if the plasterboard fixing was acceptable.
Cheers
Pulse
Cheers
Pulse
