Advice re boat -sports cruiser

[see_change]

At some stage in the next 1-2 years we're looking at getting a second hand motor boat . We've gone through a few different ideas and currently we're thinking of a sports cruiser , around 25 - 28 feet .

We're looking at putting a boat ramp on our weekender l but I think that's on the large side for us to manage in and out on a regular basis . So we're be looking at getting a mooring near by ( in a more sheltered spot ).

We're looking at it for cruising around port Stephens , occasional overnight trips into myall lakes . Going down the coast to sydney ( fair weather ) and general messing around on the water. Occasional fishing and very occasional dragging people around on various water toys etc and watching the fireworks on Sydney Harbour.

We haven't had a motor boat before so just starting to work out what things we should be looking for / thinking about . We have been advised that twin motors would be a good idea especially if we're going off shore but for example I wouldn't know how old a boat we should be looking at .

Any thoughts from experience boaters out there would be appreciated .

What are the good boating forums ?

Cliff

 

[redwing]

Only advice I can give, is be careful what you name her

 

[nww]

Just be very careful if it has a sterndrive/leg , know to many people who have bought second-hand and have very expensive repair bills.

 

[Rolf Latham]

Really need 2 boats for those purposes

Been there

A trailerable 18 to 21 bow rider with at least 200 hp if inboard or 150 if outboard

The overnight thing with twins isn't easy in that size range

Most of the decent twins sports cruisers don't have twins until u get to 30 32 feet

Ta

Rolf

 

[Trogdor]

Really need 2 boats for those purposes

Been there

A trailerable 18 to 21 bow rider with at least 200 hp if inboard or 150 if outboard

The overnight thing with twins isn't easy in that size range

Most of the decent twins sports cruisers don't have twins until u get to 30 32 feet

Ta

Rolf

Agree with Rolf. The size you have mentioned is an inbetween size - not really suited to twins, and also my suggestion if going inboard is to try to get a diesel (higher cost to buy, but a lot safer, and cheaper to run). I don't like the petrol sterndrives - lots of horror stories about things breaking or fires / explosions, plus cost a packet to run on fuel.

I have a 20 foot fishing boat - 140hp outboard - on a trailer - love the outboards - even if going some way bigger would still go outboard until I hit the size for a diesel. Just keep in mind any petrol boat will cost a lot to run per km.

I don't know much about "cruising" boats (the stuff I drool over is fishing boats) but some stuff which I'd consider (not the posey type boats) in that size:

- Arvor - with inboard diesel - good cross over type boat (very different to two below)
- Carolina Classic - do outboards, diesel shaft drives in the smaller sizes
- Grady Whites - again come in outboards and diesels

These are all partially or fully suited to fishing - so perhaps not what you are looking for.

Riviera seem to do some ok cruising type boats also - though don't know much about them. Know absolutely nothing about brands like Rinker, Four Winns, Sea Ray, Rinker etc.. but they seem to produce the more "cruising" type boats.

Only other point to add is if you have never owned a boat - why not start smaller and see how you like it - and practice as the dings into jetties / moorings etc.. will hurt less.

Lastly - if you are looking to put behind your property - have a look at things like Airdocks or comparable products - may save you having to anti-foul and have a leg in the water 24/7.

 

[Trogdor]

May be worth buying a few issues of this and reading up:

http://www.tradeaboat.com.au/subscribe.aspx

Lots of reviews, classifieds, etc...

 

[alicudi]

Hi

Some very good and very wise comments have been made above and I have to agree with everything written so far, especially about how you name your boat!

I feel I am a little qualified to reply in this thread as I currently own several boats and a couple of jet ski's as well.

The brand Arvor was mentioned above and I have a boat called the ACM Heritage 26 which I purchased instead of the Arvor as the Arvor was only available in or around 21 to 23 foot back in around the year 2000 but now they have a 28 footer which I may have purchased if it was out back then. The principle behind these type of boats are single diesel shaft drives with low maintenance and very low fuel costs.

The Arvor whilst is a VERY GOOD and VERY SEAWORTHY boat should really be considered if you are going to do a fair bit of diving and/or fishing. It isn't a boat that your wife would want to drink champagne on.

On another note I don't think you should be buying a twin engined petrol boat, in fact I try to avoid it as much as possible as I also have a Searay 275 Sundancer with a single stern drive petrol engine at the moment as my cruiser and used to own a 29 foot Scarab for the fact it was a large boat without twins. I have owned a twin engine petrol boat called a Fjord many years ago and never again as they are designed to keep mechanics employed.

Once you get into twin engines and combine that with stern drives it is going to cost you more to maintain than another trophy wife. You do not want to keep any boat moored in the water 24/7 with any stern drive be it one or two motors.

Yes the best setup is a single diesel shaft drive boat but will require higher driving skills in close quarters when compared to a stern drive that is easier to park and steer at slow speeds and reversing.

If you want to keep your boat moored strongly consider a boat lift such as those from Custom Floats or any other durable brand. If you need to get a quote for a Custom Float feel free to contact me as I know the owner of the company.

I have a feeling if you jump into the deep end and purchase a twin petrol/stern drive cruiser type boat it is going to end in horror stories for you as they truly require a lot of maintenance. Oh and diesel is where you should be focussing your thoughts around as sitting on 500 litres of petrol is never a safe thing to do.

If you for some reason want twin engines you should only consider diesels with shaft drives or if it has to be petrol look at twin outboards on something like a Grady White but make sure that when you raise the legs the whole outboard comes out of the water (not an issue if you have a boat lift though).

And for the record salt water kills boats.

Best of luck in your boat choice.

Regards,

alicudi

 

[vaughan]

We haven't had a motor boat before...

...going off shore...

Do you have boat licenses? Off-shore is a dangerous place. You cannot just walk back home if something goes wrong.

If you haven't done much boating then start with a 3 or 4 metre tinny and do little day trips around the place. Get a feel for the amount of work involved with maintenance, and get some practice with boat handling. Also get an idea of what it's like with a boat in something other than fair weather.

My son works at a marina that has a charter company based there, and the stories he tells of people getting into big boats, and getting into trouble with them, are frightening.

 

[wylie]

I think people compare owing a boat to standing on the end of the jetty ripping up $100 notes and throwing them into the sea .

I've read this, know nothing about boats (except that I'm not into them at all) and do wonder if you might be better to hire a boat when you need one?

Like a Lambourgini, isn't the advice to hire on for the day so you don't have the ongoing maintenance costs?

 

[see_change]

Thanks for the feedback everyone

I haven't owned a motor boat before , but I've been sailing since I was 11 , mainly in racing dingies ( handling an NS 14 in 50 knot's is better than any roller coaster ) and over the last 5 years we've been in two yacht syndicates , first with a Hanse 43 and last with a Seawind 1000 . With the typical wind directions in Pittwater , with the seawind , most of the time we were out it was under power , so I've got a pretty good idea on how to handle boats , in particular in and out of marina's and moorings though the seawind had twin motors which make everything much easier . Obviously the yachts don't have the speed under way that a power boat has. Don't have a license yet as the boats we've had didn't go fast enough , but I'm aware of the need for one .

Initially we were thinking of going with a larger bow rider ( around 20 - better ride than an 18 ) which we could have easily bought out out of the water , onto a boat ramp or a slipway . Part of the reason for working out what type of boat we want is to work out what type of boat ramp / slipway / boat house we build on the water front.

Over the last year seeing the water conditions and how the weather changes on pretty well every day , we're veering away from a bow rider to something with a bit more protection . Originally we were thinking of having something for just local use , but probably our favourite time out on the water was new years eve on the harbour , so we're now wanting something to use for that . We don't have big cars so wouldn't be able to tow a 20 footer back to sydney.

Where our house is , is fairly exposed so we'd probably have it moored a few hundred yards away . We'd have a tinny and fetch it from the mooring , and back to the jetty when we're up there .

Alicudi , we will do a bit of fishing , but not serious and we're not into diving. More of the cruising and sipping wine for us ... The maintenance and running costs are something I'm keen to keep down . I've already noticed that quite a few of the stern drive boats I've seen advertised have comments along the lines of new engine only 10 hours so that's already been making me wary .

Sounds as though we won't get one boat to cover everything so the hooning around will be be the thing that goes ( that's more for the kids and they're not paying the bills ... )

As we would be wanting to run down to Sydney and back and the thought of twin engines appeals to me with the comments of size , we might need to look at something slightly bigger than 25 . What size do diesel twin shafts start at and what sort of speed do they cruise at ?

With the boat lifts , is there a maximum size boat they go to and how do they handle somewhat exposed situations .

Cliff

 

[see_change]

Dum question , does twin shaft mean it has to have two engines ?

Cliff

 

[vaughan]

I haven't owned a motor boat before , but I've been sailing since I was 11 , mainly in racing dingies ( handling an NS 14 in 50 knot's is better than any roller coaster )...

OK you know what you're getting into then. Boats are awesome.

I've heard that now is a good time to buy yachts, apparently there are a lot of expired leases around (that were purchased a few years ago).

 

[see_change]

OK you know what you're getting into then. Boats are awesome.

I've heard that now is a good time to buy yachts, apparently there are a lot of expired leases around (that were purchased a few years ago).

Yes it is , so not a good time to sell as our Sea Wind syndicate found out recently , well over the last nine months .... but it has been used almost every day for 3 years

Cliff

 

[Trogdor]

Dum question , does twin shaft mean it has to have two engines ?

Cliff

Twin means two engines.

Shaft means shaft drive. As opposed to stern drive. Or outboard.

Shaft drive has a prop shaft, with the motor inboard, but further forward in the hull, as compare to a stern drive.

A stern drive has the entire "leg" in the water (which causes maintenance issues) and the motor inboard, but further to the back of the boat.

Outboard you would know.

If you google shaft vs stern drive you will find lots of info.

Hope this helps.

 

[see_change]

Twin means two engines.

Shaft means shaft drive. As opposed to stern drive. Or outboard.

Shaft drive has a prop shaft, with the motor inboard, but further forward in the hull, as compare to a stern drive.

A stern drive has the entire "leg" in the water (which causes maintenance issues) and the motor inboard, but further to the back of the boat.

Outboard you would know.

If you google shaft vs stern drive you will find lots of info.

Hope this helps.

Thanks

Looking at all the suggestions , I come up with something like this Riviera 3000 Offshore .

Price is more than I was aiming for but as a Property Investor I'm used to low balling .. though not about to rush off and buy it now . We need to have the Jetty designed , through council and constructed so that probably a minimum of 2 years away at the best , but it's a new starting point to look around.

Though I hear my sister is thinking of buying a boat , maybe we can go halves ...

Cliff

 

[The Fence]

I'd stay with a yacht.

We had a small cuddy cabin runabout which was a hell lot of fun on Port Stephens, Lake Macquarie, Brisbane Waters, and Syd Harbour.

But now looking to sail.

Can do all the things you want to do except the towing kids at speed, but you already have ruled that out.

Plenty of wind where you are and just the dingy required off the shore or jetty.

 

[see_change]

Still keeping our options open . We don't have a car that could tow a bigger cuddy or a bow rider , but we might change our minds .

I have a stand up paddle board come windsurfer and we'll probably get a hobie 14 ( can get one for 1-2 k ) and leave it at the local beach. I'm the sailer but most of the family aren't as enthusiatic when the yacht start healing and the wind picks up ....

There's a yacht club over at soldiers point and I'm thinking of crewing there to get my fix of sailing .

Cliff

 

[alicudi]

Hi

Sounds like you have a bit of boating experience already so you know what you are going to be up against. You have also noticed that lots of current stern drive owners mention all the maintenance and stuff like that recently done that's because they always need the maintenance!

I am not sure how boat lifts work in exposed weather as I am in a very quiet tidal canal system known as Patterson Lakes where it never gets rough. Perhaps you should speak to the boat lift manufacturers about this.

I noticed that the Riviera 3000 offshore was recommended above and that is a fabulous boat and meets what I class as a great hi end boat with twin diesels and shaft drives. This particular model is great for sipping champagne on and actually has a back board large enough to fish from as some owners put nice stainless bollards on them as they use them regularly for fishing.

Yes a boat of this size can also fit on a boat lift. Don't worry about the asking price if it is a little to high, cash is king and I have noticed some boats stay on the market for sale for several years at a time and if you start looking on the boatpoint.com.au from now well when you are ready to buy you will know which owners may be a little more negotiable than others due to the time of been on the market.

I will patiently wait for my New Year's Eve on the harbour invite!

Best of luck.

Regards,

alicudi

 

[DontSailBackwds]

Have you thought about chartering boats of the type that you won't use very often? As a former yacht owner - never again, it would have been cheaper for me to charter for the amount of use I got.

If you (or someone else reading this) want to go sailing lots, crew for twilight races run out of yacht clubs. There are generally beginners programs (not you, I know). This can lead to offshore races (if you want). I did a a good 6-7 years of racing, including the 2007 Hobart on a Farr 1020 (Zephyr) for a lot less $$ investment than a lot of sports. I had a ball and all I owned was the (expensive but worth it) gear I wore.

Ask yourself - will it bring you enough joy, often enough, to justify the expense? Is it the best, funnest (it's a word now, ok) way to spend that money? You already know it's an expense, not an investment, eh.

Fair winds.

 

[see_change]

We've thought of boat chartering , but a New years eve is very expensive eg this is around 8000 for the night ... . With our boat share we had 4 days on the harbor on the seawind with 16 people staying over night . I hate to think what that would have been if it was a charter .......

We will do charters when we go overseas. I've met a couple of people who have been on the Rallies that this company do though at the moment Turkey seem to be the new flavour of the month for " small " boat holidays with the Gulets being the boat of choice . I like the look of this tour

Having done the ownership of expensive boats via syndicate and deciding not to go ahead with buying something like the seawind on our own , we bought a weekender instead. Now it's just a matter of what we have on the jetty ( when it gets built ....)

Cliff