Advice Requested On How To Price Effectively To Sell Quickly

[Kennethkohsg]

1. I am wondering how many of the forumites have successfully sold their properties on their own without the help of a real estate agent. If you have recently sold your own house by private treaty, I will like to invite you to share your experiences with us in this forum, in particular on how to effectively price the house to achieve a quick house sale in today's market condition.

2. Having read Terry Ryder's book on how to "Real Estate Without A Real Estate Agent", I have decided to try selling off my Perth property myself through the HouseMart at www.housemart.net.au. This is after a sale agent has failed to help me sell off one of my 2 Perth properties since January 2005, while I am still building my third and fourth property in the same area at the Anchorage Estate in Rockingham, Western Australia.

3. In order to qualify my family for the Australian Permenant Residence before the end of June-July 2005, I have further decided to also put my second house into the market for sale recently.

4. My second property, which is also 4-bedroom house, is currently bank-valued for A$340,000. Being advertised for sale at this bank-valuation price during last Saturday West Australian Newspapers as well as last week's Telegraph Sound and Courier Local Rockingham Community newspapers for the first time, some 15 different families managed to turn up to inspect my property during its last open house last Sunday on 22nd May 2005. However, no written offer have been received to date.

5. How do I go about effectively translating these house inspection into an effective buyer's offer for my house if am to do another open house exercise
during this coming Sunday afternoon?

6. How do I get my property to be advertised with the www.realestate.com, without using a real estate agent.

7. Looking forward to your early advice,please.

8. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hiya Kenneth

Hate to be a stick in the mud, but a good REA will do this much better than you or I can, the issue isnt agents generally, but ones that can get it done.

If you have a niche property that needs special attention, then yes the owner can do a lot more with it than a REA, but under normal conditions in a flat market, I reckon will more than earn their comm.

Almost every private sale that I have had in my finance career has been either under priced to the point of being silly and not knowing the market, to an expectation of not meeting the market.

A CURRENT bank val sale value , that is averageb of 3 recent comp sales in the last 90 days should be comfortably achievable in a slightly rebounding market I reckon.

ta

rolf

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Hiya Kenneth

a good REA will do this much better than you or I can, the issue isnt agents generally, but ones that can get it done.

If you have a niche property that needs special attention, then yes the owner can do a lot more with it than a REA, but under normal conditions in a flat market, I reckon will more than earn their comm.

Almost every private sale that I have had in my finance career has been either under priced to the point of being silly and not knowing the market, to an expectation of not meeting the market.

A CURRENT bank val sale value , that is averageb of 3 recent comp sales in the last 90 days should be comfortably achievable in a slightly rebounding market I reckon.

ta

rolf

*********************************************************
Dear Rolf,

1. How do we identify truly "good" from an "average/bad" real estate agent?

2. My first property has been marketed through a real estate agency since January 2005 without any success. A number of open house exercises have been conducted for the first property. The average turn-out for the open house for the first property has been 4-5 families house inspections, on the average, without any written offers subseuqently.

3. To my own surprise recently, I have found out that my first property was not even listed on the RealEstaste.com nor reiwa.com.au websites. Thus, I am now in the process of getting a second opinion from another real estate agency, regarding the current market sale conditions prevailing in the Rockingham suburb.

4. To achieve a sale, the same RE agent now suggests that the first property be priced A$20,000 below its true market valuation price as given by a registered valuer. We all know that, the Rockingham suburb, is still fast growing area, at an average of 16.5%p.a for the last 5 years. Should I really believe what the RE agent says?...

5. Perhaps, I may be better off if I try selling off the first property myself too, at A$10,000 below its market valuation price as given by a registered valuer, to see if there is indeed a buyer for the house at this first place.

6. Terry Ryder has also made this observation in his book, that those house owners who managed to sell off their properties on their own, more often than not, have achieved an effective sale price, on the high end of the selling range, than what they would through a real estate agent.

7. What do you say, Rolf,

8. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hi Kenneth

Can only suggest you choose REA's like a all professions similar to dentists, accountants, and medical people - by referral.

Almost every person that I know that has attempted to sell privately has in the end withdrawn from the market or sold through an agent. Not because of lack of presentation skills, but because of an obvious lack of negotiation and closing skills.

I am not a REA. I am however a professional Sales person, meaning I look for a win win outcome. It also means when I have 15 people go through my house ( if I were an agent) , spending their time and their petrol to get to my sale etc, more than one famliy would be looking to buy ( to be helped to buy) if the price/value propostion is there.

I am always scared when a book is promoted by someone that makes a living from the OPPOSITE of what the book says.

ta

rolf

 

[Kevin Hockey]

I began reading one of Terry Ryders book, very interesting perspective. Curious as to exactly how many properties he has sold.

May I put this to you, if you need advice regarding the engine in your car would you go to your solicitor. How is it so many people are so qualified to give advice on selling real estate. Last time I needed some plumbing repairs my accountant wasn't very helpful with advice Legislation has become clear as to who may provide legal or financial advice, and for good reason. But guess what, we've heard of bad legal people and other so called experts providing poor financial advice. That doesn't make all those in the profession bad. I got food poisoning at a restaurant once, doesn't mean I never eat out now. I still go to restaurants just not that particular one.

I know Soulla Semple in W.A. at www.tullyrealestate.com.au but I have no idea if that is close to you. She is excellent.

As for how to price the property, get a valuer in. I have no problem with someone wanting to try and sell a property privately, I only have an issue with owners asking agents to appraise their property when they have no intention of using them. If someone wants to do it themselves then that's what they should do. A valuer will give you an unbiased opinion based on recent sales. You can form your own opinion from that information and sales of property nearby. Check out local advertising and websites.

REIQ stats suggest only 2% of property sell by private sale whereas 80% of properties originally for sale privately eventually sell with an agent. Check with REIWA, they may be able to assist you also.

Hope it works out for you.

Kev

www.kevinhockey.com.au

 

[ggumpshots]

Ken baby
you wrote
3. In order to qualify my family for the Australian Permenant Residence before the end of June-July 2005, I have further decided to also put my second house into the market for sale recently.

Can you explain how you have to qualify.

If you are in singapore how effective can you be in getting the price you want. I know you dont want to pay thousands to sell a property but how are your skills compared to those who do it for a living.
If you use a professioanl; you can probably say you got the best possible price. if you sell it you can probably say you sold it for the price you wanted!
Do you know the tax implicatoins for the sale of a property if you are a non resident?
Tax wise you would be better to sell as a resident

 

[Gill Bates]

RE
"6. How do I get my property to be advertised with the www.realestate.com, without using a real estate agent."


http://www.housesonline.com.au/ is a private sale website that lists ur place on realestate.com.au and domain.com.au Ive been looking at private sale sites recently and this was the only one that offers the listings on these www sites. The guy that runs housesonline is a RE agent.

Also in Terry Ryders book he mentions a interesting stat. that in AU about 3% homes sold privately but in US it is something like 20%.

I agree with previous comments about getting a valuer and not real estate agent to appraise/value ur home. I beleive some of the mistakes made selling privately are 1) priced incorrectly 2) emotional attachment can effect negioations

 

[Aceyducey]

Domain allows self-listings. Depending on where your property is, so does Allhomes.

Realestate.com.au does not.

Domain gets more than half the traffic nationally as realestate.com.au so it's large enough to be relevant. That's much more than any of the dedicated DIY property sell sites.

On the other side, if you target DIY sell sites it's possible to pick up more bargains...though a number of people self-selling seem to fall into the situation of expecting too much for their properties due to irrational emotional attachments.

Cheers,

Aceyducey

 

[grubar30]

Kevin,

I only have an issue with owners asking agents to appraise their property when they have no intention of using them.

Why would a seller do this? Also, is this a frequent occurence in the RE industry?

Btw, do RE agents do free appraisels?

 

[Sultan of Swing]

Kevin,

Why would a seller do this? Also, is this a frequent occurence in the RE industry?

Btw, do RE agents do free appraisels?

Hi Grubar

Yes, some sellers do this and yes, agents give free appraisals.

Agents give appraisals just like if you're building a house, a builder will give a free quote, with the understanding that if you can offer the goods, so to speak, you get the job.

When a seller has no intention of using your services, but gets every agent in town to give them free appraisals to save themselves a few dollars for a valuation, this is what Kev is talking about.

A good agent will spend quite a bit of time researching comparable properties and getting their presention together so that they give themselves the best opportunity of getting the job of selling your home. When a seller has no intention of listing with you, its USING the agent.

When this happens, and thankfully it doesn't happen too often, I feel like sending the seller a bill for my time. Unfortunately, I don't think they'd be under any obligation of paying it.

If a seller is up front about it then I may consider still going to have a look as at least there intention is out in the open and I won't be spending hours getting a presentation together.

Cheers

 

[Kevin Hockey]

RE


Also in Terry Ryders book he mentions a interesting stat. that in AU about 3% homes sold privately but in US it is something like 20%.

Firstly....Ditto SOS

There is a very good reason 20% of sales in the good ol' US of A is sold privately, sales commissions start at 6% and go up from there, often 8% +. Foxtons have just began in America after dominating London and are now doing it at a reduced comm of 3%, it will be interesting to see what happens now. www.foxtons.co.uk

Aussies are unlikely to follow this trend, I don't expect that will happen here.

Kev

www.kevinhockey.com.au

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Ken baby
you wrote
3. In order to qualify my family for the Australian Permenant Residence before the end of June-July 2005, I have further decided to also put my second house into the market for sale recently.

Can you explain how you have to qualify.

If you are in singapore how effective can you be in getting the price you want. I know you dont want to pay thousands to sell a property but how are your skills compared to those who do it for a living.
If you use a professioanl; you can probably say you got the best possible price. if you sell it you can probably say you sold it for the price you wanted!
Do you know the tax implicatoins for the sale of a property if you are a non resident?
Tax wise you would be better to sell as a resident

********************************************************

Dear Ggumpshots,

1. I am now physically in Perth since 4th April 2005. I have just conducted the open house exercise last Sunday by myself. I think you have "mis-read" my earlier posts, with out realising this.

2. Presently, I need to achieve a business turnover of A$250,000 by 30th June 2005, as part of the required pre-requsites for our Australian Permanent Residency application. If God be willing, I will have cumulatively stayed in Australia for more than a year by 30th June 2005, since 1st July 2003, after first getting our Australian Temporary Resident Visa in May 2003.

3. As to the real estate agent skills, I know that they are of varying standards as my own expericnes in my last 2 Goldcoast house sales in 2002 and 2003 have revealed.

4. Likewise, if an RE agent says that a property needs to be sold for more than A$20,000 lesser than the market valuation price given by a registered valuers, I guess the bottomline issue is in who's " professionalism" do we want to choose to believe in as being reliable in the prevaling market condition;- an independant registered valuer vis-a-vis the RE agent doing the house sale.

5. I cannot help but wonder what kind of special skills that an RE agent will need to have, in order to effectively market and sell a house for $20,000 lesser than its actual market valuation price. This is especially so when I know that the house prices in this Rockingham suburb has continued to rise strongly this year.

6. To me, good Pricing is one of the major key factor to ensure a house sale beside the house (Product) and marketing(Presentation). And selling a house for A$20,000 less than its true market valuation, is an easy and sufficiently attractive option for the house to sell by itself, because of the price bargains.
Personally, I do not think some special skills are required, as advocated by some RE agents.

7. Thus, to challenge my own thinking, I am now learning to sell on the basis on house price vis-a-vis the so-called RE skills and knowledge. I will continue to allow my first house to be sold by a RE agency while I will market the second house myself and see the outcome and make my own conclusions from my own ground experiences.

8. For this purpose, I will conduct another open house exercise for my second house, this Sunday to try to secure a written offer, by dropping my asking price to A$329,000-A$339,000, below its official bank valuation price of A$340,000. I intend to effectively price the house to sell, on my part.

9. I do conduct my house sale research, by getting a registered valuer house valuation, comparing the recent comparable sale data in this Rockingham suburb from VGO office as well as the new sales done this suburb through the various RE agencies and compiling my own database.

10. While selling the house myself, does indeed helped me save some sale commissions monies, it is not my ultimate objective in my present endeavour. I want a house sale and am prepared to drop my asking price to achieve one, including passing all the savings arising from RE agents sale commissions, to the end buyer, otherwise I will not be dropping my asking price to well below its bank valuation price.

11. The actual circumstances in my case is such that the appointed RE agent has failed to achieve a house sale for me since January 2005 and instead of allowing it to further delay and adversely affect my Australian Permenant Residency application in July 2005, I rather pro-actively take charge of the present unfavourable situation in order to respond directly to the impending challenge myself, by taking upon myself to learn to sell the second house by myself, instead of passively hoping and relying solely on a house sale through the same RE agency.

12. To me, my first house is already deemed "stale" in the market and is best taken off the market temporary for further sale purposes. It will be quite difficult to sell this property for the time being, having being "over-exposed" to the market as a result of the prolonged selling/marketing period.

13. As for the tax implications, we will probably be required to pay 10%GST and the usual 30% trading profit on this house sale, as advised by our Australian tax accountant.

14. Though both the 2 houses were previously purchased under our own individual names and could be held and rented out continuously for 5 years to avoid paying the GST for the house sale, the house has been unfortunately been classified as part of the trading stock in our business partnership by our Australian tax accountant.

15. Well, one thing I do learnt from our own experiences, is that I will definitely be paying more tax if I were to claim the GST input tax credit for my property investments, for cashflow improvement purposes but without being able to enjoy the added benefits of paying myself a salary income for my own work/stay in Australia, using a Company structure set up.

16. I trust this will sufficiently clarify my present situation and allow other members to learn meaningfully from my own property investing experiences.

17. Further feedback and comments are much welcomed.

18. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[ggumpshots]

Ken,
My experience with valuers is limited but my view and from what I have read on the forum is that they tend to be conservastive.
My property was undervalued by 60,000.........but it is hard to prove until the actual proerty is sold.
Valuers tend to work on dates that are several months old as well.
a court case ago put the fear of god into them so I can see why they may be cautious.
I think your own view and those of a REA will give you the best value.
No harm in giving it a try but it seems time is running out for you ..ie June 30

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Aceducey,

Thanks for sharing and pointing me to the right direction.
With your update, I now know that I do not have to further wait for a response from realestate.com.au. I much appreciate it your update.

I will now get in touch with domain.com.au and allhomes.com.au, to see if I can list my house sale on their websites instead.

Thank you very much.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Dear Kevin Hockey,

My valuer has recommended Craige Small from the Professionals Real Estate. I am now in the process of working with Craige for a second opinion on my first house sale and developing a new marketing plans/strategy for the house sale.

Thanks for sharing and recommending Soulla Semple in W.A. at www.tullyrealestate.com.au, nonetheless. I will contact her if I have to, in due course.

Thank you for your lead.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Ken,
My experience with valuers is limited but my view and from what I have read on the forum is that they tend to be conservastive.
My property was undervalued by 60,000.........but it is hard to prove until the actual proerty is sold.
Valuers tend to work on dates that are several months old as well.
a court case ago put the fear of god into them so I can see why they may be cautious.

**************************************************

Dear Ggumpshots,

1. I certainly agree with you regarding valuers being conservative in its valuation of property especially when they are appointed to conduct bank-valuations. My own experiences with one of the Herron Todd White Valuers
showed that the house price valuation did vary as much as A$60,000, as you have mentioned. One of my 2 ex-Goldcoast houses was being valued for A$185,000 in October 2002 and again for A$245,000 in April 2003 by the same valuer, without doing any house improvement.


2. However, I must qualify myself by saying that the market conditions then was such that it was fast rising. In fact, I have already received a written buyer's offer at A$199,000 when the A$185,000 house valuation price exercise was being conducted by the valuer. Consequently, I rejected the valuer's house valuation price as well as the buyer's offer and decided to hold onto my second house for a further 5 months period before calling for another house valuation.

3. The same first RE agency which has managed my house for the last 7 years before that, first told me that I was being "ridiculous" by asking for such a high A$190,000 for my house which it has deemed my house to be worth, only A$150,000 at best at that point in time. Consequently, to all our "surprises", the same first RE Agency was suddenly able to secure me the A$199,000 buyer's offer, within one week of its house marketing.

4. I was physically in Singapore then. I phoned and questioned the licensee of RE Agency regarding its so-called professionalism and the trustworthiness of the RE Agency and its RE Agents.

5. Suspecting that this first RE Agency to be untrustworthy and has probably "gazumped" me on my first house for more than A$50,000, which it has sold for me in October 2002, I decided to get another RE agency to sell my second house.

6. The main reason for my suspicion is that although the house sale for my first house has not been legally completed yet, my first house was being put on sale with the same RE Agency by the same RE agent whom has helped me sold my house, at a much higher price by the new buyer to my first house.

7. My second house was subsequently sold for A$246,500 in May 2003, within less than one month marketing period by the new RE Agency. The house sale was legally completed in August 2003.

8. That's had been my own experiences dealing with RE agents/Agency in Australia so far.

9. I trust that members would learn and benefit from my unfortunate experiences when choosing their own RE agent/Agency to market their house sale in future.

10. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Kennethkohsg]

Dear All,

1. I have 10 more families inspecting the house at 26, ProperJohn Drive, Rockingham, WA 6168, following this afternoon open house exercise. Despite trying to price the house to sell below its bank valuation price of A$340,000 by reducing its asking price between A$329,000-$339,000 price range, I still have no received any written offers during this afternoon's open house exercise.

2. However, the West Australian newspaper adverstisement has attracted interest from one serious potential buyer in the regional area, who is able to make a cash offer for my house and to have the sale legally completed within a 3 weeks time frame before 30th June 2005. I will be following up regarding his interest tommorrow.

3. For those of you who are interested in my house sale offer, you can view it at HouseMart website at http://www.housemart.net.au. If you are interested in the house offer, you can contact me directly at my email address at [email protected]. My home telephone/fax number in Australia is 61-8-9341-1236 and My Australian mobile is 0418-758-123.

4. I am also prepared to pay any member, a A$2,000 for a successful sale referral. Please note that your buyer's offer must however be no less than A$335,000, with simple buyer's terms and cash offers preferred. Please also note that your recommended buyer must be able to legally complete the sale and purchase for the house before 30th June 2005.

5. In the meantime, I will try to arrange for the house sale offer to be officially advertised with the Domain.com.au, so as to reach out more effectively to the inter-state and overseas investors.

6. For your kind update and neccessary actions, if any please.

7. Thank you.

regards,
Kenneth KOH

 

[Rolf Latham]

Hi Kenneth

How old is the bank val, and was it done for finance ?

ta

rolf

 

[geoffw]

Kenneth

You are indicating to us that you may becoming a desperate vendor. That may not be a good negotiating tactic. You are also indicating a final price range. If you remember from Michael Yardney's course last year- the first person to reveal a price can often lose the advantage in a negotiation

 

[Enemy Agents]

Kenneth KOH

You have had lots of good advice so far, I hope you are not getting confused... sales in general dont happen for two reasons.

1. The property has not been exposed correctly.
2. The property is overpriced (no matter who values it)

Assuming there is nothing wrong with the property itself, then written offers will give you an indication of how close you are.

Otherwise a good way to sell is to put the property to tender, this has all the advantages of an auction without the pitfalls, and leaves you in control.
Stephen