anti plain package smokes ads

The difference is you can have a drink without getting drunk or smashing your car. You can't have a cigarette without inhaling carcinogens.

I've never seen signs on cigarette packets asking consumers to 'smoke responsibly' or 'don't smoke and drive'. :)

Becuase smokes don't affect your driving skills

Your comaprison isn't even a fiar apples to apples comapriuson

You cant drink alcohol without swallowing carcinogens
You cant smoke without inhaling carcinopgens

So what's the difference some would say ? Alcohol also affects the way peo-le behave towards other people, possibly puttin gthem in the way of physical immediateharm when abused..... SMokes don't

I'm not defending smoking, but let's keep a bit of perspective...

Another apples to apples comparison mi8ght be":

You can drink alchol, wiht no intention of getting drunk, jsut for the taste
But illegal drdugs/narcotics are taken solely with the intent of the high / drunkeness they provide
 
The 'smoke and drive' comment was made in jest.

That's my point Jaycee, cigarettes are different to alcohol or fatty foods. Some are saying that we should treat other drugs like alcohol the same way as the proposed treatment for cigarettes, but, as you've pointed out, it isn't a fair comparison.

The smokers can't argue that cigarettes do no damage, so they are basically arguing for other drugs to be treated the same way, when they aren't a similar product.

I agree 100% that alcohol causes problems in society, but it can be enjoyed responsibly.

As Homer Simpson said, "To alcohol. The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."
 
if alcohol can be enjoyed responsibly, why majority of people don't do it?

i'd argue that smokes can be enjoyed responsibly too, it's just that no one does
 
Care to share your definition?

no form of binge drinking at all

no more than 1-2 standard drinks per day - at any day of the eyar
and all that stuff

we excuse drunken behaviour "Yeah, I know I was a bit p1ssed haha "

Irresponsible childish behaviour
 
I'd argue that the majority do use alcohol responsibly.

Go to King st any fri or sat night and then say that. :D

I try to use myself as a yardstick for this sort of stuff. I reckon I'm fairly responsible and try to be rational, do good unto others and all that stuff.

So, based on this, I reckon I'm pretty terrible at the alcohol thing.

I've been really p.1.5.5.e.d./sick/hungover and done dumb things while all of the above so many times in my life it's not funny (not so much these days).

So, based on this; most adults won't use alcohol responsibly all the time.

Where's me glass? :D
 
Go to King st any fri or sat night and then say that. :D

I try to use myself as a yardstick for this sort of stuff. I reckon I'm fairly responsible and try to be rational, do good unto others and all that stuff.

So, based on this, I reckon I'm pretty terrible at the alcohol thing.

I've been really p.1.5.5.e.d./sick/hungover and done dumb things while all of the above so many times in my life it's not funny (not so much these days).

So, based on this; most adults won't use alcohol responsibly all the time.

Where's me glass? :D

And you're not only one mate...
 
Go to King st any fri or sat night and then say that. :D

I try to use myself as a yardstick for this sort of stuff. I reckon I'm fairly responsible and try to be rational, do good unto others and all that stuff.

So, based on this, I reckon I'm pretty terrible at the alcohol thing.

I've been really p.1.5.5.e.d./sick/hungover and done dumb things while all of the above so many times in my life it's not funny (not so much these days).

So, based on this; most adults won't use alcohol responsibly all the time.

Where's me glass? :D

Penguin like behaviour:D:D:D
 
If it's not going to make any difference, why are the tobacco companies spending huge sums of money to try and get the legislation reversed? You can't have it both ways.

The answer is that they think plain packaging will have some effect, especially with attracting new smokers. Otherwise big tobacco wouldn't be pursuing this.

I don't agree. Offer a smoker 2 packets - 1 plain and one branded, but each with the same product in and they aren't going to give a crap which packet they choose - it's the product inside they want and if it's the same in both packets it makes no difference.
Do the same with a new smoker and the result is the same. If the same thing is in both packets it doesn't matter which packet they choose. It's glaringly obvious common sense that the packaging makes no difference - therefore it's a wasteful exercise and wasteful spending.

And don't tell me it's the principle. Big companies don't spend money on ads and lawyers for principle. They spend it to guard their turf and protect their profits.
Actually I think it is the principle. They haven't said a word for years even though there are constant new restrictions being put on them, but this latest move is just plain stupidity, wasteful gov spending and unfair business practice.
There are many people here with businesses and there have been posts in the past from people getting businesses off the ground and putting time and effort, not to mention expense, into developing a logo, style, colour theme etc to be associated with their business. And as long as they do everything within a legal framework and their product or service is legal then they should be allowed to do so. AND SO SHOULD THE TOBACCO COMPANIES!
It doesn't matter whether you like or dislike tobacco and the industry - they are not doing anything illegal, and the gov is trying to control something they have no right to interfere with.
We should not allow the gov to set this precedent! To do so would give them the green light to go after the next business they take an offense with. There are other industries watching this very closely as they are very nervous about the possible outcome and how it would effect their business. ALL businesses should be nervous if this gets through IMO - who will they target next?
 
I've never seen signs on cigarette packets asking consumers to 'smoke responsibly' or 'don't smoke and drive'. :)

I would argue that most smokers nowadays are responsible smokers (not talking about inhaling the substance - just where it's used etc.) Apart from all the places smokers aren't allowed to smoke, most smokers also choose to not smoke around children, not smoke in their cars, not smoke in their own houses and step away from a group of people when at social gatherings.

As long as smokers continue to abide by not only the laws but also 'social rules' I think they should be left alone. The only ones they are hurting are themselves! And that is their choice to make!

As for 'not smoking and driving' - smoking doesn't impair your judgement or problem solving skills so doesn't effect your ability to drive.
 
I've never bought a packet of cigarettes or smoked, so I have no idea if plain packaging will make a difference to an existing or new smoker. I dont think tobacco companies should be able to advertise, but I dont think packaging makes much difference to that.

The tobacco industry ads I think miss the mark from a marketing point of view. I'm thinking particularly of the "Prisoner" one, with the unattractive lady saying "just do as your told"... it comes across as being desperate. I think using an argument like the Olly did above about "what industry could they stop next" would probably be more effective, from a marketing point of view.

As a general principle, I think people should take responsibility for their own behaviour, whether its smoking, over-eating, drinking too much etc. We all have vices, and we all suffer their consequences. I dont think govt should "interfere" here. they can educate, encourage etc... but not actually stop our civil liberties.

Sometimes, our actions also impact on other people, and that is where govt should look to possibly step in, eg stopping drink driving, not smoking in public places, healthier food in school canteens etc.

Where I have the biggest "gripe" is people saying that because you've smoked you dont 'deserve" healthcare services, because you've brought it upon yourself. This is a very real attitude, particularly in Australia.

As someone who has lung cancer, I can tell you that the first question EVERYONE asks me is 'did you smoke". When I say no, the general feeling is that its somehow unjustified, or terribly unfair that I have cancer. But the flip side of that is that people who have smoked are treated like having cancer is their own fault. The same attitude isnt displayed to people with other cancers (the sympathy is, but not the blame). Recent research showed that Australians had the least sympathy of any of the nations surveyed towards people with lung cancer, because they felt it was the sufferers own fault.

OK... now I'm going to start preaching! ;) The funding for lung cancer research is lower than all the other major cancers, despite it killing more people than breast, prostate and cervical combined. More women die from lung cancer than breast cancer. Some statistics say that up to 60% of people who are newly diagnosed are either never smokers or quit smoking decades ago. The survival rate for lung cancer is 15%, and has not changed for over 20 years. (as a comparison, breast cancer has gone from around 40%- 80%, I think in the past 15 years or so.). There is no early detection methods, like there are with breast and colon cancer. (In fact, there has recently been a breakthrough in this, with research showing survival rates could be doubled if smokers had a yearly CT scan...... and one of Australia's leading lung cancer doctors said it was a waste of money and we should be focusing on quit smoking campaigns...... can you imagine a similar approach being taken for breast cancer!!!!!!!! :mad: )

I have no problem at all with Quit smoking programs... they are essential. But smoking is a risk factor for lung cancer (and other cancers), not a direct cause. Lots of people who smoke never get lung cancer. and there are rapidly increasing numbers of people who never smoke who are getting lung cancer. Because of our attitudes of "smokers deserve to get lung cancer", we have neglected to fund research into early detection, treatment and cures.

All of us make lifestyle choices which are probably not the best for our health. We shouldnt stigmatise smokers, or punish them for their actions. By not taking lung cancer seriously, as a disease that anyone can get and no one deserves, we are doing just that.

OK, rant over!! you can go back to your packet of ciggies, your carton of beer or your block of chocolate now :eek:
 
Go to King st any fri or sat night and then say that. :D

But people drinking in King St are a minority of all people having a drink on a Friday or Saturday night. My point was, if we look at ALL the people having a drink on a Saturday night, the amount who get arrested / in a fight / intoxicated or drive drunk would be in the minority.

When looking at these things we tend to forget the silent majority who do behave responsibly.
 
I don't agree. Offer a smoker 2 packets - 1 plain and one branded, but each with the same product in and they aren't going to give a crap which packet they choose - it's the product inside they want and if it's the same in both packets it makes no difference.
Do the same with a new smoker and the result is the same. If the same thing is in both packets it doesn't matter which packet they choose. It's glaringly obvious common sense that the packaging makes no difference - therefore it's a wasteful exercise and wasteful spending.

I can understand that for the existing smoker who knows what they want and will look for that brand regardless of what the packet looks like. I totally agree.

But for the new smoker, how do they make that initial choice of what brand to smoke? I'm not sure, but it makes sense to me that the packaging is a factor. And this legislation to me is more about stopping people taking up smoking, rather than getting people to quit.
 
But people drinking in King St are a minority of all people having a drink on a Friday or Saturday night. My point was, if we look at ALL the people having a drink on a Saturday night, the amount who get arrested / in a fight / intoxicated or drive drunk would be in the minority.

When looking at these things we tend to forget the silent majority who do behave responsibly.

danc,

You dont have to get into a brawl in public to use alcohol irresponsibly

irrepsonsbile behaviour happens everyhwere and it happens a lot

Of course, we excuse it and say it's not irre[psonsible, so what if he did that he was p1ssed -
 
But for the new smoker, how do they make that initial choice of what brand to smoke? I'm not sure, but it makes sense to me that the packaging is a factor. And this legislation to me is more about stopping people taking up smoking, rather than getting people to quit.
As I said in an earlier post - new time smokers are not brand specific! They have a try of whatever is offered to them. Packaging isn't a factor in their choice.
Unless they base their choice on their favourite colour? I doubt it though because smoking is based on taste preference, just like food and drink.
Of course if their favourite colour is brown - they'll smoke everything! Hmm, another reason not to plain package. :p
 
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