Are we Australians paying way too much?

[Graemsay]

I re-ordered Gentle Chief's list into the number of Fortune 500 companies per head of population. (M = million) It tells a rather different story.

1. Switzerland: 0.5M
2. Netherlands: 1.4M
3. France: 1.9M
4. Japan: 1.9M
5. United Kingdom: 2.1M
6. United States: 2.3M
7. Germany: 2.4M
8. EU: 2.8M
9. Canada: 3.1M
10. South Korea: 3.5M
11. Italy: 6.0M
12. China: 22M

The US doesn't look quite as good in these rankings, though overall it's doing better than the EU (assuming 500 million population / 179 Fortune 500 companies) on the number of citizens per company.

Oh, the source for the EU figure is an interesting article from Reuters.

JoeExpat, I agree about Australia being tempting on a salary basis. I'm currently waiting to see if a role in Melbourne is likely to come off, that pays 30% more than a similar position in London would.

(Yes, I am currently job hunting in several countries. My life has a habit of being distinctly uncertain from time-to-time. )

 

[Dan_p]

I travel to Germany regularly and find groceries are around 1/2 the price they are here.

SO they lied, I knew I couldn't trust them

 

[oracle]

I re-ordered Gentle Chief's list into the number of Fortune 500 companies per head of population. (M = million) It tells a rather different story.

1. Switzerland: 0.5M
2. Netherlands: 1.4M
3. France: 1.9M
4. Japan: 1.9M
5. United Kingdom: 2.1M
6. United States: 2.3M
7. Germany: 2.4M
8. EU: 2.8M
9. Canada: 3.1M
10. South Korea: 3.5M
11. Italy: 6.0M
12. China: 22M

How about you find out the market capitalisation of the fortune 500 companies and divide it by population of the country. I think that will tell you a different story. I think US will clearly be at the top. Because how big these companies are matters as it tells you entrepreneurship of citizens. Just think of Exxon, Apple, Google, Wal Mart, Coke, P&G, J&J etc.

Which other country in the world has companies which dominate the world like the ones I mentioned above?

Cheers,
Oracle.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Which other country in the world has companies which dominate the world like the ones I mentioned above?

Cheers,
Oracle.

i dunno, maybe Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Qatar, Libya, UAE, Algreia, Nigeria, Ecuador, Gabon and Angola.....?

 

[Dan_p]

NZ gets it worse, costs are similar but a lower wage to pay for it.

They all come here and earn the aussie wage. Some vessels i have worked on it is 50% nz, the rest is made up of australians and others

 

[BayView]

prices in Oz are insane, however protection of retailers seems to be a priority so we can't have it both ways

Where do you get the theory that there is protection for retailers?

I can think of 5 retail businesses in the last 12 months that have gone bust. I bet I don't get no handouts from noone if I get into trouble.

Where was their protection?

No; our prices are what they are due to overheads to run a business; wages being the main culprit.

Actually; not the wages as such; all the other "add-ons" that employees get these days, as well as the rights they enjoy that make it hard to get rid of duds without copping it up the loading bay.

We've got what we wished for, and it is coming back to bite us in the behind.

The other factor is location and market size; our market compared to others around the world is small, and we are a very long way from those markets by comparison.

So, from a manufacturer's point of view, it's not worth their time really to send stuff here, and it's expensive by comparison to ship stuff here...so, we pay accordingly.

 

[Aaron Sice]

i think ausprop means in WA regarding the retailers trading act changes, and the lease changes that come with it.....

 

[DEC]

Mongolia's lower-tax coal sector could rob global market share from Australia,

China's poor coal quality

 

[Dan_p]

And Australia will get a whole lot more expensive when the carbon tax comes in.

 

[sanj]

i think 2 things form a big part of it.

1) our attitudes as customers - we are generally pretty happy to be bent over and thank the retailer for the privilege, ESPECIALLY in perth. how many people here actually tell a restaurant if they feel their prices are too high? how many people will walk out? i'd guess not many. if you look at places in chinatown, theyre cheap not only because of competition but also because stingy asians wont pay too much (i include myself in that). if you buy a bottle of water at a small cafe in one most expensive shopping centres in KL it will cost you marginally more than from a supermarket. if you do the same over here you are paying up to 5 times the price, just for some clown to take it out of a fridge and give it to you. thaty would NEVER fly in asia, people would simply refuse to pay it and would find somewhere cheaper.

2) our attitudes are business owners - we seem to follow the high margin low volume method which ive always found puzzling. perhaps it is because my own business is one of low margins and overheads but high volume but ive always felt that is the best way. once again, look at chinese restaurant or provision owners. even now, when retail is down, most of them are doing well (im talking at least from a perth POV).

 

[Ed Barton]

we have a young relative over from the UK on an extended working holiday. at first he couldn't believe how expensive everything was, converting it back to sterling.

once he started working (low paid bar and labouring work) and converting how long he had to work to buy a beer, a burger etc, he came to the conclusion it's cheap.

I have to agree with Sanj, Australian consumers are lazy and pay for convenience. I can understand that. I can understand why a consumer will pay MUCH more for an item I import because of the convenience of being able to pop down to the local shop and get it straight away (vs ordering on the net and having to wait).

what I don't understand is why business buyers are so lazy. the businesses I sell to could easily cut me out and buy direct and save a bundle. but they generally don't. Ever since globalisation and the net I have thought my business would cease, and buyers of major chains would cut me out. generally they haven't. perhaps the incentive to perform in a work role in oz are just not there?

I'm glad I live in a country where the 'poor' are not that poor and the rich are not that 'rich'. Yes, I hug trees!

 

[sanj]

we have a young relative over from the UK on an extended working holiday. at first he couldn't believe how expensive everything was, converting it back to sterling.

once he started working (low paid bar and labouring work) and converting how long he had to work to buy a beer, a burger etc, he came to the conclusion it's cheap.

I have to agree with Sanj, Australian consumers are lazy and pay for convenience. I can understand that. I can understand why a consumer will pay MUCH more for an item I import because of the convenience of being able to pop down to the local shop and get it straight away (vs ordering on the net and having to wait).

what I don't understand is why business buyers are so lazy. the businesses I sell to could easily cut me out and buy direct and save a bundle. but they generally don't. Ever since globalisation and the net I have thought my business would cease, and buyers of major chains would cut me out. generally they haven't. perhaps the incentive to perform in a work role in oz are just not there?

I'm glad I live in a country where the 'poor' are not that poor and the rich are not that 'rich'. Yes, I hug trees!

the ineficiencies here are astounding but as frustrating as they can be in a morbid way im glad because the more idiots there are out there the more opportunities there are for people with a brain.

i suspect we also arent the most entrepreneurial country because we would have to be one of the best places in the world to be an employee or simple subbie with high wages, good conditions, absolute plethora of jobs etc

in a lot of places you have to go out on your own if you ever want to make "good" money, here it isnt the case

 

[Aaron_C]

in a lot of places you have to go out on your own if you ever want to make "good" money, here it isnt the case

I guess it depends on what you think 'good money' is. Pretty easy for a 35+ year old to earn $200,000+ in Aus. I wouldn't really consider it 'good' but it's a decent wage for lifestyle.

 

[Dazz]

To my shock and amazement, everything in the USA is far too cheap!! And better quality!! I am just going nuts...

- A cup of Tea/Coffee - USD 1.09 (yes, they will give you exactly 91 cents back if you give them USD 2.00)
- A can of Coke/Pepsi - USD 0.50
- I can have a burger meal for USD 3.00 from any of the major burger joints and if I did Tacos instead I could further shave it down to just 2 bucks (try out the Chicken Burrito meal from Taco Bell's with coke & chips). Yes 2 bucks!
- Clothes & designer wear is dirt cheap
- Anything in Walmart so inexpenisve and great quality (not our K-Mart stuff)
- Walk into Homedepot (Australia's Bunning's equivalent) and I am just amazed at their price & quality
- A 700 ml of Jack Daniels is USD 20 (In Australia, on a good day I can buy it for USD 40 equivalent)
- Cars are 15-25% cheaper - try out any car!! (including the Australian built vehicles)
- And the list goes on and on, in every department!
- And I don't know one thing where we can be cheaper..... no not even in Australian bred lamb - it is cheaper here in the US compared to our Coles/Woolies prices

....to be fair though, the vast majority of your list, one does not need to purchase.

Most either make you sick and/or poor, and little else.

In the US, it looks like it is cheaper to, if you so choose, to make yourself really fat.

Perhaps the Aussie Govt with it's multitude of taxes is targeting the right sectors ??

 

[sanj]

I guess it depends on what you think 'good money' is. Pretty easy for a 35+ year old to earn $200,000+ in Aus. I wouldn't really consider it 'good' but it's a decent wage for lifestyle.

i would consider 200k good money, absolutely

not great but certainly good and like you said not all that hard to achieve

in places like singapore and malaysia very few local employees earn that sort of money

 

[Shaneelastic]

Got any names? I'm interested in buying. Ivanhoe dwarfs everything else, but money goes where it is treated best so why wouldn't Oz miners flee our shores with NEW exploration? They are not immune to the high costs this thread is about.

HUN
Haranga
ROB
CEO
TVN

couple others doing DD, is suspect PLD or NDL to also go that sort of way

these arent mining yet, but have licenses etc

 

[Tony3008]

i would consider 200k good money, absolutely

not great but certainly good and like you said not all that hard to achieve

I don't think this is true of the real world. Slightly old figures (May 2010, couldn't find newer), but ABS have 10% of men earning more than $113K ($2175pw) and women $80K($1540).

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/subs...A257823001546DC&&May 2010&27.01.2011&Previous

Looking at a couple of random job ads on the Age site "qualified Building Surveyor to join a municipality located in Melbourne's Northern Suburbs" is paying $52k-$56K and "Senior Quantity Surveyor, BSc Quantity Surveying or Construction Management/Economics, Member of AIQS or RICS, 10 years minimum experience", $120K-135K. Sure some earn $200K, but not many.

 

[Wise1InOz]

For the record I am in the US now on a 3 week Business Analysis trip. To my shock and amazement, everything in the USA is far too cheap!! And better quality!! I am just going nuts...

- A cup of Tea/Coffee - USD 1.09 (yes, they will give you exactly 91 cents back if you give them USD 2.00)
Make it at home and carry a thermos


- A can of Coke/Pepsi - USD 0.50

don't buy it, bad for your teeth and bones

- I can have a burger meal for USD 3.00 from any of the major burger joints and if I did Tacos instead I could further shave it down to just 2 bucks (try out the Chicken Burrito meal from Taco Bell's with coke & chips). Yes 2 bucks!
junk food, bad for your health, I hope that prices go up even more

- Clothes & designer wear is dirt cheap

designer wear is so over rated


- Anything in Walmart so inexpenisve and great quality (not our K-Mart stuff)
- Walk into Homedepot (Australia's Bunning's equivalent) and I am just amazed at their price & quality
how often do we really need to spend here and what % of our annual income are we talking about?

- A 700 ml of Jack Daniels is USD 20 (In Australia, on a good day I can buy it for USD 40 equivalent)
I don't drink


Are we as a nation getting more & more un-competitive?
Yes, agree


Heard the last week the electricians, plumbers & welders (about 100 of them) in a mining project in QLD refused to show up on the weekend inspite of being offered aud 2550 per person for just 8 hours work on Saturday & 5 hours work on Sunday.

Yes, that is ridiculous.

In the US, that is more than a months wages for most electricians.

I know our minimum wages of 16.50 (compared to the 7.50 in the US) is giving us a better quality of life. No doubt. But is this sustainable in the long run? Will we protect our jobs at all costs, and then let the unions run amuck squeezing every corporate, and we inturn keep getting protectionist, until our children's generation one day have to pay for it when the bubble explodes.

Some other things to consider:

Any idea how much healthcare costs in the US? How much they co-pay for insurance (many employers foot only a part of the insurance - the rest you co-pay - sometimes up to $1-2k per month)? What happens to people when they lose their job due to poor health - yes, they go bankrupt if they have no insurance. Break your leg and without insurance you're looking at losing your life savings. However much we whinge about the public system in Australia, it is by far, vastly superior to the US. Give me Aussie health care any time.

What about property taxes? How much do we pay in Australia? In the US, depending on the State, I'd be looking at paying around $14,000 p.a. (that is what my sis pays for her house in CA)

Guns must be cheap too - easy access and right to own weapons thanks to their Second Amendment to the United States Constitution.

Like the old saying goes.... grass...greener...etc

 

[pennyk]

Some other things to consider:

Any idea how much healthcare costs in the US? How much they co-pay for insurance (many employers foot only a part of the insurance - the rest you co-pay - sometimes up to $1-2k per month)? What happens to people when they lose their job due to poor health - yes, they go bankrupt if they have no insurance. Break your leg and without insurance you're looking at losing your life savings. However much we whinge about the public system in Australia, it is by far, vastly superior to the US. Give me Aussie health care any time.

Like the old saying goes.... grass...greener...etc

I agree with you on this one... what should have been a quick drs visit during a vacation in the US for my son's ear infection cost over $500... and I spent about 5 hours waiting to be seen. He saw at least 5 different people - receptionist, finance person, triage nurse, nurse and finally doctor, who prescribed anti biotics. Such a waste of time and money. I'm aware of people who have to make a choice btw paying for their own chemo and becoming bankrupt. Its an awful situation.
I was really surprised at the level of aggression towards Obamacare in the US. So many people just couldnt see the benefit of having a "safety net".
The best thing, I think, about our system is that we have the choice of private and public, and we can use a mixture of the 2 (assuming we have private insurance). This is a big advantage over both the US and the UK , which is drowning in the cost of medical bills.

But I still think we pay too much for clothes!

 

[Wise1InOz]

But I still think we pay too much for clothes!

Agree, I select/try them on locally and buy the same stuff online

I guess the only things I have no choice but to buy locally would be groceries. Then there are those one off big ticket items that I have to buy here - car, home reno stuff. Clothes, many food items, shoes and most other stuff I buy online - mainly in the US and UK.