Australia: All is good

[csc2]

Yikes! What a load of bollocks.

Why do you feel closer to your actual neighbour than your trans-continental one? I can think of a few reasons.

I walk down the street everyday and I don't see the same people.
There really is no excuse for needing help in Australia, people are given every opportunity to avoid poverty, and failing that, there's govt handouts.

What do you think causes corruption in 3rd world countries? Poverty.
How do you eliminate poverty? Education. That's pretty simplified but its the right direction.

Bollocks??? lolol, you must be a pom...

Seriously you need to get out of the house more....

Come up to where I am currently, ill take you to a hundred the poorest people i know...many are murries who dont have a clue about managing their lives..........there are literally thopusands of people nation wide who dont even have a home to live in...........

For sure people are given the opportunity here but many fall through the cracks and actually dont have the education or basic knowledge of how to obtain real help, some are just too scared of govt bureaucracy.........

C',om on up to my world and see the real world any day...ill happily show you what poor is all about in this country....

You have no idea...........

 

[weg]

What do you think causes corruption in 3rd world countries? Poverty.

Poverty can render people powerless but it's misdirected power that corrupts.

How do you eliminate poverty? Education. That's pretty simplified but its the right direction.

It is simplified. There's 'education' and then there's educating people to think independently. Two very different things. Independent thinking is not usually encouraged by those in power whose agenda it is to corrupt.

The 'type' of education people recieve is dictated by what those in power what to achieve.

You can give aid to improve the curriculum but it's very optimistic to think that it can break through other barriers that suppress the masses, ie. religious indocrination, customs, entrenched cultural ideas, harsh and unjust punishment toward those behaving outside of the parameter of corrupt law.

 

[willfong]

Sound like a good idea on paper but sadly most of the money will just end up in the pockets of some corrupt people in the middle of it all. And if you think Indonesia is going to let Australia have a say on its education curriculum in exchange of aid money, you are dreaming. This is coming from someone who was born and raised in Indonesia and still has most of my family members living there.

The fund coud be better spent improving the education of our own children in Australia.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

spot on - and backed by significant data. no only do they have less children but educated women also tend to stay in their community to help others (doctors, nursing, teaching, running small businesses), whilst educated men tend to leave their community to seek fortune elsewhere.

that is why i only sponsor girls thru my child sponsorships.

Lizzie, this doesn't make any sense at all. Educated men may leave their community at higher rates than women (although I'd like to see the evidence for this), but I would hazard a guess - if it is true - that it is largely because they are looking for opportunities to attract a wife.

Don't believe me? How attractive do you think a factory worker is compared to a lawyer in a woman's eyes? Women are taught from a very young age to get the doctor/lawyer/insert profession here, yet when men conform to that, when they 'seek their fortune elsewhere' they are attacked for it. The natural order of nature dictates that the woman find a mate who is most capable of protecting her and her offspring. So men go where the opportunities to maximise their income producing capacity are more abundant, in order to attract a suitable mate.

Only sponsoring girls is pretty blind in my view. Boys grow up to be construction workers/miners/electricians/plumbers/all the other jobs women won't/can't do in their local communities. There are also plenty of men that work in their local communities as doctors/business owners/teachers, etc. Without men building and maintaining the foundation of your 'community' the women would have no community to support.

 

[depreciator]

Only sponsoring girls is pretty blind in my view. Boys grow up to be construction workers/miners/electricians/plumbers/all the other jobs women won't/can't do in their local communities. There are also plenty of men that work in their local communities as doctors/business owners/teachers, etc. Without men building and maintaining the foundation of your 'community' the women would have no community to support.

Just to head of on a bit of a tangent, alot of the micro finance organisations (the ones who lend a hundred dollars to a family to buy some goats or sewing machines or something) will only lend to women. They have found that if the blokes get their hands on the money, they either spend it or do a runner.

Scott

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

Scott, how do you know this? Because they say that's how it is? Here's something else for you to ponder. Around 80% of non-custodial fathers pay their child support obligations, less than 50% of non-custodial mothers pay theirs.

The point being, that the myth of the uncaring, selfish male is largely that - A MYTH. I'm so sick of hearing about men and fathers getting attacked on mostly baseless BS.

 

[depreciator]

Scott, how do you know this? Because they say that's how it is?

Because when I spent those few weeks building houses in that slum outside Delhi, I talked to the people on the gound working for three separate micro finance groups. I was also allowed to attend a group meeting with their clients. They get together regularly to review the status of their accounts.

I can't comment on your child support stats because I have no first hand knowledge.

 

[Mr. Fabulous]

So let me ask you this - before these funds were set up - how did families survive? On sunshine and rainbows and fuzzy feelings?

Scott, the point I'm trying to make here is that we as a society denigrate men and their contributions. I have no doubt that some of the men in those communities would spend the money at the pub. It happens. Just like some women would spend the money in ways it wasn't intended. But the way that all men in those communities are painted are selfish so and so's really grinds my gears.

When people read such accounts, they simply believe it to be true. Imagine if something like that had been written about women. There would be a firestorm of epic proportions. Words like 'sexist' and 'discrimanatory' would be thrown around like confetti at a wedding. But it's okay to say it about men. Which is totally unacceptable.

Then we end up with situations where people like Lizzie only sponsor girls because women are painted as unselfish bastions of the community, forever sacrificing for the betterment of the community, while men care only about themselves. As I said before, it's a MYTH.

 

[gooram]

Come up to where I am currently, ill take you to a hundred the poorest people i know...many are murries who dont have a clue about managing their lives..........there are literally thopusands of people nation wide who dont even have a home to live in...........

For sure people are given the opportunity here but many fall through the cracks and actually dont have the education or basic knowledge of how to obtain real help, some are just too scared of govt bureaucracy.........

C',om on up to my world and see the real world any day...ill happily show you what poor is all about in this country....

Sorry but the "poorest people you know" doesn't really hold much weight with me.

If you are homeless, there are homeless shelters, there's organisations like the salvation army, there are govt handouts, there is help for these people available. In no way am I saying it's a good situation, but if you are homeless in indonesia, you will die.

People in Australia don't know real poverty.

 

[jaycee]

Sorry but the "poorest people you know" doesn't really hold much weight with me.

If you are homeless, there are homeless shelters, there's organisations like the salvation army, there are govt handouts, there is help for these people available. In no way am I saying it's a good situation, but if you are homeless in indonesia, you will die.

People in Australia don't know real poverty.

ASnd regardless what does one thign have to do with another ?

1 We might have poverty issues at home that aren;t ebing addressed proerly - address them properly !!! , overhaul the system / hold people accountable whatever....

2 We have decide to particiapte in teh world economay etc same as other countries like us

Surely you people arent that naiive to think we are spending $XX on number 2, and if we stopped it, we could and woudl actually spend it on Number 1 ????

All the people employed across the country would what - change careers / employers / ministerial seats etc ? come on.....

If there are problems in Aust that need dealing with, I doubt very much that it is because we are provdiing aid overseas..

 

[depreciator]

So let me ask you this - before these funds were set up - how did families survive? On sunshine and rainbows and fuzzy feelings?

Micro finance organisations cater to people who want to do more than just survive. They encourage entrepreneurship, albeit on a small scale. Obviously, not every person avails themselves of the opportunity.

Scott, the point I'm trying to make here is that we as a society denigrate men and their contributions. I have no doubt that some of the men in those communities would spend the money at the pub. It happens. Just like some women would spend the money in ways it wasn't intended. But the way that all men in those communities are painted are selfish so and so's really grinds my gears.

No pubs there. I'm not painting a picture, just describing one that I saw in that place. If you want to extropolate that into me being a spokesperson for some bigger bloke bashing movement, that's a bit odd.

Then we end up with situations where people like Lizzie only sponsor girls because women are painted as unselfish bastions of the community, forever sacrificing for the betterment of the community, while men care only about themselves. As I said before, it's a MYTH.

Lizzie might choose to sponsor girls. Other people might choose to sponsor boys. Some sponsor familes. Some sponsor animals at Taronga Zoo.

 

[lizzie]

too right - you can sponsor boys if you wish.

i also like to sponsor the girls because they tend to "teach" their children and ergo education is passed on, whereas the fathers tend to be more hands off and leave the raising of the children to the female ... i am not saying all ...

also, a bit like 60 years ago in western society when boys were encouraged by their fathers to go to uni, get a good job and inherited the property - whereas the girls were encouraged to find a bloke and have babies.

i want to sponsor the girls so they can go to uni, get a good job ....