That is not what you were "simply saying". You made the unequivocal statement that it was a lie, I'm calling bullsh#t on anyone making such a statement without personal insider knowledge of which you appear to have none
Bali Nine
- Thread starter Scott No Mates
- Start date
That is not what you were "simply saying". You made the unequivocal statement that it was a lie, I'm calling bullsh#t on anyone making such a statement without personal insider knowledge of which you appear to have none
How does anyone know if they are rehabilitated?
Loads of folks in jail get out on parole and reoffend again...some immediately.
Taking on art and doing art classes etc and help to others is commendable (if only all jailbirds would do the same), but what if they were let out again; what then?
What if it is was as already stated - a ruse to avoid being shot?
I know that's what I'd do; and if I had to do it for the rest of my life to avoid a bullet; so be it.
Having said that; they've been in prison for 10 years already - my vote is for life imprisonment without any chance of parole.
If I was PM that's what I'd be fighting to win for any of my citizens - even though they have done a very bad thing.
Loads of folks in jail get out on parole and reoffend again...some immediately.
Taking on art and doing art classes etc and help to others is commendable (if only all jailbirds would do the same), but what if they were let out again; what then?
What if it is was as already stated - a ruse to avoid being shot?
I know that's what I'd do; and if I had to do it for the rest of my life to avoid a bullet; so be it.
Having said that; they've been in prison for 10 years already - my vote is for life imprisonment without any chance of parole.
If I was PM that's what I'd be fighting to win for any of my citizens - even though they have done a very bad thing.
You just never know,but unless the Indonesian President looks at this longterm not short term and shows compassion ,then it's a horrible reminder of what mankind can do..
hahaha, your joking right
you think even if they believed they had reformed they wouldnt be shot,
thats not how the real world works
And your making the statement that what they said is true. They have lied continually from their initial arrest, surely you can't be this gullible. Why do you believe them? And please don't answer by saying they said sorry so all should be forgiven.
Bzzzt incorrect. Where did I say they were definitely telling the truth? Care to provide the quote?
I take it comprehension isn't among your better qualities?
I want to start by stating that I find it difficult to agree with capital punishment. Perhaps I'd feel differently should a friend or family member be raped, killed, etc - maybe I'd want the person responsible to be killed, but that's an emotional response motivated by revenge, because it doesnt act as a deterrent. Unless someone can demonstrate otherwise, by and large I don't see that it's been an effective deterrent in any nation where it's prevalent, ever. Jails in the US are full to overflowing in spite of it. Drugs continue to be smuggled into Indonesia and people still commit crimes in nations under Sharia law.
Whatever my ideological position towards capital punishment though, I am also of the view that the laws of a country are theirs and theirs alone to determine - and as a very frequent traveler to Indonesia I can tell you it is quite literally impossible not to understand the ramifications of drug smuggling in that country. The warnings are everywhere, and they are blunt.
So, should they end up being executed ( and I hope they aren't - I hope the sentence is changed to life in prison) it's difficult to make an argument in their defence. Ultimately, if you are foolish enough to risk trafficking narcotics in a nation where the penalties are so clearly severe, and you are caught ......
What is interesting though, is the "blood money" of $2Million+ US several media outlets say Indonesia allegedly paid to Saudi Arabia to have one of their citizens (an Indonesian maid) spared the death penalty. If that's true, it does seem a double standard, and opens Indonesia up to accusations of hypocricy. That seems to be the position Brazil , the EC and others are taking. Australia isnt alone is trying to exert pressure. several other nations have citizens on death row as well and are making their displeasure known...
Whatever my ideological position towards capital punishment though, I am also of the view that the laws of a country are theirs and theirs alone to determine - and as a very frequent traveler to Indonesia I can tell you it is quite literally impossible not to understand the ramifications of drug smuggling in that country. The warnings are everywhere, and they are blunt.
So, should they end up being executed ( and I hope they aren't - I hope the sentence is changed to life in prison) it's difficult to make an argument in their defence. Ultimately, if you are foolish enough to risk trafficking narcotics in a nation where the penalties are so clearly severe, and you are caught ......
What is interesting though, is the "blood money" of $2Million+ US several media outlets say Indonesia allegedly paid to Saudi Arabia to have one of their citizens (an Indonesian maid) spared the death penalty. If that's true, it does seem a double standard, and opens Indonesia up to accusations of hypocricy. That seems to be the position Brazil , the EC and others are taking. Australia isnt alone is trying to exert pressure. several other nations have citizens on death row as well and are making their displeasure known...
sure does.
that person will never rape or kill anyone again
The reality is their family may come into harm. Just as the reality is that their poisonous filth destined for the Australian population would lead to heartbreak and crime at every level. And their refusal to give up the names of who they were working for perpetuates their disgusting behaviour. They have said - having done this selfish act - I care about my small immediate family more than the your families, so get stuffed, plus we want our lives spared despite having no entitlement to do so. This is not reform and I don't care how much art they paint.
These were not crazy teenagers throwing lemons on the teachers roof. They were repeated hard core drug traffickers ready to inflict the most heinous damage upon the population. They did this on their own volition in the clear pursuit of material wealth. They were intelligent, they knew the risks, they understood the risks, the risks were clear and obvious. Having confronted the downside of their risk they must deal with what that entails, being the force of the local laws of that country. This will act as a deterrent. If it doesn't for a select few, then the next person to be shot will act as a deterrent for the others that follow and so on.
So why are we jeopardising international relations for these low lives?
Doesn't stop others offending, was the point .
I did that once - it was acorns though.
I don't think this is the case.
TA and Julie are not that stupid, and 6 months after this event (execution) it will all be forgotten over there by most folks...
For the Pollies, it'll be like AFL players on the ground during a game; play hard and take no prisoners (sorry about the pun), but go out with the boys after the siren for a beer and some dinner and fun and a laugh...
We'll still give aid, and they'll still be looking for mutual trade agreements as will we, handshakes all round.
You either believe they are telling the truth or telling lies. You can't have it both ways. I believe they are liars amongst other things, and that their days are numbered.
Not informing on the Kingpins was weak on their behalf, as this once again displayed their selfishness. Trying to justify it by claiming that their families may be harmed; but having no regard for the families that would be devastated by the trafficking of narcotics shows their contempt.
UPDATE: Executions Imminent.
Do you comprehend they are going to be shot?
Okay Harro, let's put the shoe on the other foot.
Supposing one of your daughters was involved in trafficking drugs, she knows the kingpins she's working for and she regularly goes to Bali to party, drink, take drugs and traffic drugs.
One drunken and drug fueled night in Bali, she gets into a catfight with an Indonesian girl, they wrestle fiercely, your daughter pushes this Indonesian girl onto the ground, the Indonesian girl hits her head on the concrete and dies immediately.
Your daughter goes to Kerobokan prison. The capital punishment in Indonesia for killing someone - is death by execution squad, to be shot in the heart. It doesn't matter whether the killing was accidental or premeditated, the law is the law. Death by execution squad.
During her 10 years in prison, your daughter is remorseful, repents and runs a lot of programs for other prisoners, cooking, sewing, computer, art classes, even computer classes and pastoral care for other inmates.
Pretty soon, she will be taken away to be shot. As a father, what would you do, knowing that your daughter has changed in these 10 years. All the lawyers, judges, pastors, governers, prison guards can testify to the good things your daughter has done in prison for other inmates and the wonderful programs she has set up. They all say she shouldn't be shot but be given life imprisonment.
Will you ask the Australian Govt to do anything or will you silently stand by to let your daughter die by execution squad because it is the law in Indonesia and you must abide by the laws in Indonesia? Your daughter did the crime, now she must pay with her life according to the law in Indonesia.
The Indonesian authorities knows that it is drugs that has caused this mayhem and asks your daughter to release the name of the Kingpins she works for. She refuses because she is scared the Kingpins will kill you, her mother and her sister. In the meantime, the Kingpins are causing misery by trafficking drugs to other Australians and their families suffer. Would you consider your daughter selfish in not giving the names of the Kingpins? Would you force/command/compel your daughter to give up the names of the Kingpins? What would you do?
Supposing one of your daughters was involved in trafficking drugs, she knows the kingpins she's working for and she regularly goes to Bali to party, drink, take drugs and traffic drugs.
One drunken and drug fueled night in Bali, she gets into a catfight with an Indonesian girl, they wrestle fiercely, your daughter pushes this Indonesian girl onto the ground, the Indonesian girl hits her head on the concrete and dies immediately.
Your daughter goes to Kerobokan prison. The capital punishment in Indonesia for killing someone - is death by execution squad, to be shot in the heart. It doesn't matter whether the killing was accidental or premeditated, the law is the law. Death by execution squad.
During her 10 years in prison, your daughter is remorseful, repents and runs a lot of programs for other prisoners, cooking, sewing, computer, art classes, even computer classes and pastoral care for other inmates.
Pretty soon, she will be taken away to be shot. As a father, what would you do, knowing that your daughter has changed in these 10 years. All the lawyers, judges, pastors, governers, prison guards can testify to the good things your daughter has done in prison for other inmates and the wonderful programs she has set up. They all say she shouldn't be shot but be given life imprisonment.
Will you ask the Australian Govt to do anything or will you silently stand by to let your daughter die by execution squad because it is the law in Indonesia and you must abide by the laws in Indonesia? Your daughter did the crime, now she must pay with her life according to the law in Indonesia.
The Indonesian authorities knows that it is drugs that has caused this mayhem and asks your daughter to release the name of the Kingpins she works for. She refuses because she is scared the Kingpins will kill you, her mother and her sister. In the meantime, the Kingpins are causing misery by trafficking drugs to other Australians and their families suffer. Would you consider your daughter selfish in not giving the names of the Kingpins? Would you force/command/compel your daughter to give up the names of the Kingpins? What would you do?
As a parent of two daughters and one son, all in their twenties I would hope to have my finger on the pulse and be able to see well in advance the destructive path they are embarking on. I can agree that this is not always possible.
If in your hypothetical case my daughter was arrested for Drug Trafficking I would tell her in no uncertain terms to give up the Kingpins. Shielding them only exacerbates the problems we face as a society today with the Drug Scourge. Living in fear is no way to live.
thats be cause you are a tough guy right? a keyboard warrior so if someone comes and threatens you with a gun, all those military expereince makes you able to handle the situation,
and im sure none of your daughters have done anything wrong in their lives,
can I have a pair of blinkers that you have on
You can be unsure.
And to be fair you never said you believe they are lying, you made statements of fact, like: they are lying, they are not rehabilitated, etc.
Why is it so hard to believe people can change? Surely it's not beyond the realms of possibility that after 10 years on death row and after completely ruining your family's lives that you might be somewhat remorseful for what you've done? I just don't understand how you can be so sure that someone is not rehabilitated or remorseful. Especially after so many people who have gotten to know them have vouched for their rehabilitation.
I think we are all missing the point, rehabilitation was never an option
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine
Drugs are bad so I reckon all these caffeine dealers need to be shot in the head!
The death penalty is hypocritical by definition. The solution to people getting killed doesn't involve killing people...
I think you are confusing me with another poster. I was a butcher for over 30 years. Sure my kids did things wrong but nothing so terrible to now be facing execution.
