Bali Nine

[HiEquity]

sorry don't follow the logic. You can't undo your crime if that's what you are suggesting? the point is I hear about this incredible reform program that the 2 underwent, what was the program exactly? It can't have been too successful as they wouldn't even give up the basic detail of who their boss was, so we know there was at least one person that popped champagne when the bullets flew.

It's weird that someone else said that paedophiles should be executed because they can't help themselves, shouldn't it be the other way round? If you can't help yourself you are sick. These two scum chose the greedy path, then boo hood when they got caught and thought 'oh cmon guys you didn't really mean that death penalty thing did you?'. Help you out with some names... nah mate, got some painting to do

Well, if they gave up the names they could have escaped their fate like their fellow traveller who got the reprieve. But they didn't - so the firing squad can't have been the deterrent that so many make it out to be.

Oh - and their secret died with them. That might not have been the best outcome to stop drug trafficking hey? But we all know this was never about stopping drugs - too much evidence that the Indonesian govt cares as much about that as they do about their endemic corruption.

 

[Strannik]

What a joke. That's exactly what happens we you use such an extreme punishment. It takes all the attention away from the crime and puts it onto the barbaric act of vengeance. If they got life in prison this sort of rubbish would never have happened. Another good reason why the death penalty is counterproductive.

no mate you got it all wrong.
it's got nothing to do with the punishment.

that's what we get when you combine idiots in the media that jump at anything that can catch attention, idiotic government, that can't achieve anything so they are distracting people away from their failures with campaigns like this one, and bunch of do gooder idiots who think that if the person is australian they are somehow above the laws of foreign countries.

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

Well, if they gave up the names they could have escaped their fate like their fellow traveller who got the reprieve. But they didn't - so the firing squad can't have been the deterrent that so many make it out to be.

It could have been the choice of a possible bullet to the heart, or a definite shiv in the kidneys, plus the kidneys of your family.

that's what we get when you combine idiots in the media that jump at anything that can catch attention, idiotic government, that can't achieve anything so they are distracting people away from their failures with campaigns like this one, and bunch of do gooder idiots who think that if the person is australian they are somehow above the laws of foreign countries.

I agree about it being a media circus.

In truth, I don't think our government (or the opposition) gives a damn beyond trying to balance domestic international political considerations. They all want to look reasonably good to Australians, they don't want to burn too many bridges with Indonesia, they don't want to give the opposition too many opportunities to take cheap shots. At the end of the day however, if you're slam dunk guilty of drug trafficking in another country, there's only so much our government is likely to do (and I don't disagree with this either).

Whilst in office, Kevin Rudd was campaigning hard for clemency for these two. He was also lining up to pull the trigger on the 'smiling assassin' responsible for the Bali bombings. Kind of hypocritical.

They should certainly pay for their crimes even if they are rehabilitated. I just don't think execution is an appropriate application of justice and I do believe that a lot more good could have been done (for them and others) had they not been executed.

 

[HiEquity]

It could have been the choice of a possible bullet to the heart, or a definite shiv in the kidneys, plus the kidneys of your family.

I suspect it would have been the family getting the bullet (or shiv) through the heart...

 

[Ausprop]

It could have been the choice of a possible bullet to the heart, or a definite shiv in the kidneys, plus the kidneys of your family.

exactly! reformed...pfff



Must check at the Bali airport when I'm there next....

"Death penalty for drug dealers (but if you 'reform' then it won't be death)"

 

[Strannik]

Well, if they gave up the names they could have escaped their fate like their fellow traveller who got the reprieve. But they didn't - so the firing squad can't have been the deterrent that so many make it out to be.

but it is.

now you got two opposite examples, so the next person won't be thinking "oh i might get away with some time in prison if i paint some pretty pictures"

 

[Ausprop]

I suspect it would have been the family getting the bullet (or shiv) through the heart...

yes, all those little considerations before you start running a heroin trafficking ring through Indonesia

 

[jackbak]

no mate you got it all wrong.
it's got nothing to do with the punishment.

Of course it is, the only reason they made the front pages of the newspapers for years is because they were about to die. When was the last time one of the remaining Bali group made the headlines? Rarely if ever, because they got a fair punishment for the crime.

Getting the death penalty gave them a hell of a lot of attention and sympathy. Right or wrong that's just the reality. If they were in prison we would hardly know their names.

 

[HiEquity]

but it is.

now you got two opposite examples, so the next person won't be thinking "oh i might get away with some time in prison if i paint some pretty pictures"

If the death penalty was such a great deterrent, then why did these guys do what they did? It clearly doesn't work... criminologists have studied this for decades across lots of jurisdictions and all come to the same conclusion - it just doesn't make any difference for its stated purpose.

However, barbaric acts of vengeance clearly make some of us feel better...

 

[Ausprop]

If the death penalty was such a great deterrent, then why did these guys do what they did?

LOL - literally made me laugh out loud, love it. reminds me of that economist thing that has been posted here before:

An economist and a normal person are walking down the street together. The normal person says "Hey, look, there's a $20 bill on the sidewalk!?" The economist replies by saying "That's impossible- if it were really a $20 bill, it would have been picked up by now."

 

[Strannik]

If the death penalty was such a great deterrent, then why did these guys do what they did? It clearly doesn't work... criminologists have studied this for decades across lots of jurisdictions and all come to the same conclusion - it just doesn't make any difference for its stated purpose.

However, barbaric acts of vengeance clearly make some of us feel better...

cause not enough people get death penalty, obviously.
also because it takes decades of appeals for the criminals to get executed.

if every single person caught with drugs was executed automatically with no ifs and buts, with every execution receiving same amount of media attention as these two, but with focus shifted from "oh poor drug smugglers, they don't deserve to die" to "here is what happens if you are an idiot" then the number of people trying to import them would decrease dramatically.

 

[HiEquity]

cause not enough people get death penalty, obviously.
also because it takes decades of appeals for the criminals to get executed.

if every single person caught with drugs was executed automatically with no ifs and buts, with every execution receiving same amount of media attention as these two, but with focus shifted from "oh poor drug smugglers, they don't deserve to die" to "here is what happens if you are an idiot" then the number of people trying to import them would decrease dramatically.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

 

[Strannik]

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

if we follow your logic then the only thing that actually works is making everything legal, so no matter what you do, it's not a crime.

because prisons don't work either. neither does letting crims go on good behavior.

so to fix crime we just need to get rid of all the laws we have.

but somehow i doubt that you would like to live in such world

 

[HiEquity]

if we follow your logic then the only thing that actually works is making everything legal, so no matter what you do, it's not a crime.

because prisons don't work either. neither does letting crims go on good behavior.

so to fix crime we just need to get rid of all the laws we have.

but somehow i doubt that you would like to live in such world

My logic is that the death penalty is ineffective, barbaric and lowers society to the same level as the criminal. It's very hard for a govt to say "don't kill others" when they are doing that exact same thing themselves. It's the very definition of hypocrisy.

Incarceration on the other hand can be a more effective deterrent (when combined with effective law enforcement) and is fine by me so I have no idea what you are saying here.

 

[Strannik]

My logic is that the death penalty is ineffective, barbaric and lowers society to the same level as the criminal. It's very hard for a govt to say "don't kill others" when they are doing that exact same thing themselves. It's the very definition of hypocrisy.

Incarceration on the other hand can be a more effective deterrent (when combined with effective law enforcement) and is fine by me so I have no idea what you are saying here.

My logic is that the incarceration is ineffective, barbaric and lowers society to the same level as the criminal. It's very hard for a govt to say "don't limit other's freedom" when they are doing that exact same thing themselves. It's the very definition of hypocrisy.

Death penalty, on the other hand can be a more effective deterrent (when combined with effective law enforcement) and is fine by me so I have no idea what you are saying here.

 

[HiEquity]

We clearly have very different values...

 

[Strannik]

we clearly do

 

[Peter_Tersteeg]

We clearly have very different values...

we clearly do

Be warned. This video ends in capital punishment...

https://youtu.be/9-k5J4RxQdE

 

[jackbak]

My logic is that the incarceration is ineffective, barbaric and lowers society to the same level as the criminal. It's very hard for a govt to say "don't limit other's freedom" when they are doing that exact same thing themselves. It's the very definition of hypocrisy.

Death penalty, on the other hand can be a more effective deterrent (when combined with effective law enforcement) and is fine by me so I have no idea what you are saying here.

Thankfully your logic isn't shared by many.

You should move to Syria, they're killing heaps over there at the moment for all kinds of crazy reasons, you'd love it.

 

[Strannik]

Thankfully your logic isn't shared by many.

You should move to Syria, they're killing heaps over there at the moment for all kinds of crazy reasons, you'd love it.

interesting that you mentioned Syria, and not USA or Japan