Bubye KRudd

[Peter Parker]

...Hitler's death camps
what's that got to do with communism?

Both atrocities were the products of totalitarian regimes in which the 'government knows best'.

You are basically arguing that communism is morally equivalent to democracy.

Whereas I believe that communism has more equivalence with fascism, as both are totalitarian systems that rely on a servile relationship between a government and its people.

As a communist you have an exaggerated trust in government, and a belief it can do no evil. While governments have done many good things, a blind faith in them is misguided. For example, government policies on aboriginal issues, mental health, land clearing, past forced compulsory retirement, etc are commonly cited as failures.

While there are indeed areas in which governments can and should act, these should be limited by both convention and constitution, and discussion as to its role are legitimate areas of political debate.

The distinction between constructive and destructive criticism is not as clear cut as you may think, so it's better to err on the side of freedom and trust the people rather than government commisars and censors.

equality for citizens of the respective countries. some of those do matter, but not all. if i had a choice between freedom to talk ****, and guaranteed livelihood for my family - i'd pick the second.

Why not have both?

Not that liberal democracy is perfect (eg homelessness and Conroy's censorship) but by and large it has led to more people fulfilling their dreams than any other system.

One thing you need to set straight is which times are you talking about.
You seem to be comparing communism of the 1920-1940 with modern capitalism and democracy. i can assure you that communism in 1980-ies was as much different from 1920 version, as is current democracy.

You sure? Consider Romania during Ceausescu (1965 - 1989). Forced childbirth under social engineering population policies. Persecution of infertile couples and homosexuals. Unwanted children. Homelessness. AIDS. All up until his execution, after which the death penalty was abolished.

 

[Strannik]

Both atrocities were the products of totalitarian regimes in which the 'government knows best'.

they were products of the totalitarian regimes, but it doesn't mean that communism (lets leave fascism out of discussion, as Hitler's doing was a product of democracy) can only produce one single product. I'd actually say they were products of time, rather than a specific political system. Same goes for Ceausescu.

As a communist you have an exaggerated trust in government, and a belief it can do no evil. While governments have done many good things, a blind faith in them is misguided. For example, government policies on aboriginal issues, mental health, land clearing, past forced compulsory retirement, etc are commonly cited as failures.

i'm not a communist, and never was one. i'm just saying that the communism isn't nearly as bad as it's painted. your examples show that democracy can produce same results.

While there are indeed areas in which governments can and should act, these should be limited by both convention and constitution, and discussion as to its role are legitimate areas of political debate.

i agree with you here. communism had all that.

Why not have both?

Not that liberal democracy is perfect (eg homelessness and Conroy's censorship) but by and large it has led to more people fulfilling their dreams than any other system.

debatable.

You sure? Consider Romania during Ceausescu (1965 - 1989). Forced childbirth under social engineering population policies. Persecution of infertile couples and homosexuals. Unwanted children. Homelessness. AIDS. All up until his execution, after which the death penalty was abolished.

what's that got to do with communism?
it could well be any system whatsoever. compare it to the same period in Australia, how was it any better?