Building a PPOR in Perth

[Ausprop]

I do find the massive distrust of architects on here a bit odd, like any profession there will be good and bad ones.

some of it is expectation - you can't expect a custom build to be the same price as a project home builder, however 99% of the buying public have no clue and they are all that matter (unless it's purely a build for yourself)

having said that some of these architects do do stupid things - like that one in Leederville I had the misfortune of being in - circular central steel stair case. could not be fabricated in WA, had to be sent from over east. there's money you can kiss good bye

 

[MTR]

interesting - I love their homes but their pricing looks too good to be true. how is the second storey slab - much sound transmission from top to bottom? are they happy over all?

They are very happy, but HE has views so important to get the design right, not sure if spec builder would be the way to go here, this is in part why BIL got architect involved they also had great views.

The house is all glass at the front, nice in the evening watching city lights etc. but stinking hot in summer and cold in winter.

 

[Ausprop]

They are very happy, but HE has views so important to get the design right, not sure if spec builder would be the way to go here, this is in part why BIL got architect involved they also had great views.

The house is all glass at the front, nice in the evening watching city lights etc. but stinking hot in summer and cold in winter.

why do you think a proj builder would be no good for views? they have so many designs and have done it all before, there is sure to be an off the shelf solution

 

[HiEquity]

Hi guys - thanks for all the feedback - this is great!

A few clarifications:
- We would love to build a single storey home as we have a 900sqm site (R12.5 before anyone gets too excited...), it's a lot cheaper per sqm and we aren't interested in a mansion. Problem is when I get up on my roof and check out the view of Rottnest from there - it's pretty nice... nothing from the ground floor. There's a pretty big premium in the market for capturing those views if we ever had to sell. Kinda shot ourselves in the foot when we bought the block on that one.
- The reference to Giorgi was TIC - they do some great homes of course at $3k-$4k per sqm but that isn't our cup of tea, as it's hard to see anything of substance where the money has gone other than in creating a work of art to live in. We prefer function over form if it means paying less.
- I've had builders say to me that I could "whack up something from APG" but that it wouldn't add any value and someone will just come along later to bowl it all over. Like Ausprop, that type of story just makes me a bit suspicious - it might actually be worth giving them a call (they do concrete slabs as well - that's a given for us as the prefab second storeys don't seem to be that much cheaper over an equivalent slab build - they should be but I'm not really seeing much of a difference out there in price ATM with the same fit and finish)...
- We've been through WBN (inc in Churchlands), Riverstone, Grandwood etc display homes. While WBN makes some sense from a value perspective (even if it's such a sausage machine...), with the latter two I really struggle to see where all the money has gone in those homes. I can make do without Grohe taps and a dog bath in the laundry with it's own outlook on the garden... IYKWIM.

Thanks for the input everyone - it really helps to see where our little niche might be in this industry - there are just so many options! All we want is a decent design, good quality ("Toyota" ie not Geely and not Porsche) level finish and reasonable value. The search continues...

 

[HiEquity]

why do you think a proj builder would be no good for views? they have so many designs and have done it all before, there is sure to be an off the shelf solution

This is a tough one as we can't even make up our minds whether to go upside down or not! We've got a pool at the back (down from the house level - there's a bit of slope) and a front courtyard so it would be great to have the kitchen downstairs to allow great access outside to those areas. OTOH the view if great and if the bedrooms are upstairs you only really see it at night when there is nothing to look at! Decisions, decisions.... the fact they are both fantastic options doesn't make the decision any easier!

 

[INVSTOR]

Have you considered just doing an extension up? Had any quotes? I know they can vary heaps! IMO 900sqm would be a good devt block in the future. it will get rezoned eventually!
I just realised I forgot to go to Josh Byrnes open house. I went to one two houses ago, I love his style. you may get some idea's here if you haven't been watching Gardening Australia already.
http://joshshouse.com.au/about-the-project/the-property/house-plans/
http://etool.net.au/eblog/projects/josh-byrnes-sustainable-housing-project-gets-underway/

 

[HiEquity]

Have you considered just doing an extension up? Had any quotes? I know they can vary heaps!

Yep - cost per sqm is at least double that of a new build so if you double the size of the house it's the same price as a new one! But with a compromised design due to working within the constraints of the existing house. Not a good option for our little 120sqm house...

It could be a very long time before it becomes a development block. Anyway, I have a theory about well located bigger blocks becoming more valuable as everything else gets subdivided due to the scarcity factor... and because we want to live with some elbow room and outside space for three kids there will be no subdividing going on if we can help it!

 

[INVSTOR]

Yep - cost per sqm is at least double that of a new build so if you double the size of the house it's the same price as a new one! But with a compromised design due to working within the constraints of the existing house. Not a good option for our little 120sqm house...

It could be a very long time before it becomes a development block. Anyway, I have a theory about well located bigger blocks becoming more valuable as everything else gets subdivided due to the scarcity factor... and because we want to live with some elbow room and outside space for three kids there will be no subdividing going on if we can help it!

I held that theory also of large blocks but I keep seeing consumers pay the same for houses on 300sqm blocks as 800sqm blocks so now I'm not too sure! Maybe premium rather than ave area's will fare better?

I guess there's no chance of an attic? My friend had one built with access by ladder from the garage. she had friends that were builders, that helps, No idea of cost though! http://www.atticstorage.com.au/
http://www.attix.com.au/contact-us

 

[HiEquity]

I held that theory also of large blocks but I keep seeing consumers pay the same for houses on 300sqm blocks as 800sqm blocks so now I'm not too sure! Maybe premium rather than ave area's will fare better?

I guess there's no chance of an attic? My friend had one built with access by ladder from the garage. she had friends that were builders, that helps, No idea of cost though! http://www.atticstorage.com.au/
http://www.attix.com.au/contact-us

Not without building a completely new roof, which would mean you may as well do an extension up, which means you may as well bowl and rebuild...

Our alternative option is a ground floor extension just to alleviate some of the space issues but there is a lot of stuff on the old house that needs replacing in the next few years (lintels have rusted and lifted brick work, roof needs work with gutters, timber window frames are rotting slowly, timber framed garage is only just holding itself up after white ant attack before we bought the place, etc etc) and it kinda feels like throwing good money after bad. We've been in this no man's land of not knowing what to do with the house for about 5 years now, so we haven't been spending money on it. Together with 3 young kids doing their best to trash the joint from the inside, all roads seem to lead to a demolish and build. By the time a new house gets built, our kids should at least be a bit more house proud. In the meantime they just help with the demo job!

 

[INVSTOR]

Not without building a completely new roof, which would mean you may as well do an extension up, which means you may as well bowl and rebuild...

Our alternative option is a ground floor extension just to alleviate some of the space issues but there is a lot of stuff on the old house that needs replacing in the next few years (lintels have rusted and lifted brick work, roof needs work with gutters, timber window frames are rotting slowly, timber framed garage is only just holding itself up after white ant attack before we bought the place, etc etc) and it kinda feels like throwing good money after bad. We've been in this no man's land of not knowing what to do with the house for about 5 years now, so we haven't been spending money on it. Together with 3 young kids doing their best to trash the joint from the inside, all roads seem to lead to a demolish and build. By the time a new house gets built, our kids should at least be a bit more house proud. In the meantime they just help with the demo job!

Fair enough, get the sledge hammers out then!

 

[MTR]

Not without building a completely new roof, which would mean you may as well do an extension up, which means you may as well bowl and rebuild...

Our alternative option is a ground floor extension just to alleviate some of the space issues but there is a lot of stuff on the old house that needs replacing in the next few years (lintels have rusted and lifted brick work, roof needs work with gutters, timber window frames are rotting slowly, timber framed garage is only just holding itself up after white ant attack before we bought the place, etc etc) and it kinda feels like throwing good money after bad. We've been in this no man's land of not knowing what to do with the house for about 5 years now, so we haven't been spending money on it. Together with 3 young kids doing their best to trash the joint from the inside, all roads seem to lead to a demolish and build. By the time a new house gets built, our kids should at least be a bit more house proud. In the meantime they just help with the demo job!

We were in similar situation, house to small and needing lots of work, extension was going to cost $500,000, my brother mentioned sell up and just buy sometime that is completely finished to your standard.

Spent that w/end looking at houses, fell in love with perfect home for us, placed our house on the market sold within 3 days cash offer, no headaches and moved into our new home, nothing to do but enjoy.

Sometimes its worth looking at all the options, even moving if it means you may be better off financially and less headaches. Thought I would just add that, just to add to your nice delimma

 

[MTR]

why do you think a proj builder would be no good for views? they have so many designs and have done it all before, there is sure to be an off the shelf solution

I assumed that if they were designing a home, not their stock standard spec you would be paying more as that is how they keep their costs down, using cooker cutter design.

 

[HiEquity]

Sometimes its worth looking at all the options, even moving if it means you may be better off financially and less headaches. Thought I would just add that, just to add to your nice delimma

Don't worry - there is a great value house up the road on the market with better views that has been beckoning us for awhile. But the stamp duty, agent's fees and CGT (our PPOR used to be an IP...), makes angels weep.

And the reason the house up the road is such good value is because it was an extension job in the 90s in a few different directions and ended up with a pretty horrible floor plan. Just to ram home how much better it is to demolish and rebuild because the work must have cost a bomb at the time but there is no value in it now. And the decor needs completely renewing and .... so on. We don't want to do this and still have reservations about where we live - prefer to do it right the first time.

But it would be a lot cheaper overall... and simpler. So we remain tempted while it stays on the market...

 

[Ausprop]

I assumed that if they were designing a home, not their stock standard spec you would be paying more as that is how they keep their costs down, using cooker cutter design.

oh yeh if built completely to another design then yes probably dearer

 

[Ausprop]

- I've had builders say to me that I could "whack up something from APG" but that it wouldn't add any value and someone will just come along later to bowl it all over.

not so sure about that, sounds like sale stalk - why would you knock over a nice $500k home? you should still get your 20% dev margin?

 

[HiEquity]

not so sure about that, sounds like sale stalk - why would you knock over a nice $500k home? you should still get your 20% dev margin?

I agree - that part of the spiel made me smell a rat in the whole "luxury home" building business case... I see some cases where spending big has paid off but it looks like a big risk compared to having a livable product that is a lot cheaper to build. Either way you still get a concrete slab, double clay bricks and solid roof after all...

 

[keykey]

Building Broker/s

Hi, I see this threat mentioned a little bit on Building Brokers.

Could Colin please put his recommendations here for any?

Also, does anyone know the fees/charges usually associated with using a Building Broker?

Thanks.

 

[Colin Rice]

Hi, I see this threat mentioned a little bit on Building Brokers.

Could Colin please put his recommendations here for any?

Also, does anyone know the fees/charges usually associated with using a Building Broker?

Thanks.

I will PM you some options keykey.

From my understanding the service is free to the end user as the builbing brokers are paid the commission that would normally go to the building rep if you bought a spec home. Thats how it has been explained to me. Same concept applies as with mortgage brokers getting paid by the bank for introducing a customer or retaining an existing one.

 

[kero]

Using an architect has its place in house design and where the house is being built. If i am after the 'extra ordinary' effect, then the architect can help with the layout, finishes and external look of the house. Some high end builders do have an in-house designer that help clients to match colors and a wide variety of materials to select e.g. Tiling, feature walls, overall design etc, a free service.

Eventually, it makes the designer and builder's job (and yours) a bit easier if you have some idea what you want in the house e.g. No. of bedrooms, no. of bathrooms, location of the bedrooms, the stuff you know you want in the house. It's no point for a designer or architect to conjure up a design when it doesn't meet any of your basic requirements.

I am not a firm convert of energy efficiency homes except for the basic house orientation, using light colors for walls and using insulation. So I would budget for a reverse system and gas heater outlet in the house. Comforts like these is better for you to tell the designer and builder to cater for it rather than them telling you whether you need them a not.

Hope it makes sense.

 

[redwing]

A friend went the Architect route recently as his last builder used a previous design of his and won an award

This way he has (c) and seems important to him