Bust and then what....????

I still have concerns as to your negativety towards property at present, especially selected property(free standing houses on land in particular), when demand is great(population growing), rents are rising(in the areas that I look at), cap growth is "flying".

But the expected pop growth has always been factored into house prices.
Rents from what I hear are not expected to rise due to current supply (ie new construction) beating new demand. Capital growth has "flown" up till now. But we will see this change as growth stagnates and then declines as the last few investors get sick of ridiculous yields and prices that command far too much future demand and growth just to break even.

How could their be a next boom when house prices are already as unaffordable for FHBs as they are. Esp in a country like Australia where affordability should not be an issue.

What one needs to do is imagine what prices WOULD be if it werent for the potential for capital growth and then look at each driver that contributes to growth and you'll see what I mean.

Ie
Lets assume a typical house in say Brisbane worth $350K. It rents for $320 per week.
What would this house be worth if there were none of the drivers that could create a capital gain.
$320 pw is $15K pa (2 weeks untenanted). After all expenses you would be lucky to be left with $10 grand.
With interest rates at around 6.5% you would expect to get a net rental yield of 10% to justify buying this house (leaving you with a 2% profit after tax, an adequate compensation for the risk).

This shows that the house is intrinsically worth around $100K.
this means that there is already a massive $250K of expected capital growth included in its current selling price, or 250%

Next thing you would need to do is look at what would justify this 250% premium to intrinsic value.
The three main ones are
increasing rents (which can be caused by increased inflation/wages)
increasing population (over and above what is absorbed by new construction)
decrease in supply ie huge fires or Weapons of MD (this is never realistically taken into account, due to the benefit being cancelled out by the possibility that it could be your house that it happens to)

Now you wouldnt need to spend too long working out, that even with rents and population increasing at double the rates they have been in the past, that its going to take many decades for this to catch up to its $350K price tag.
Hence you would have to expect an even greater increase in population (ie China deciding to buy our Australia for its residents) or rents to feel that you could expect greater returns by buying this house when it already has so much expected growth in its current price.

If I did this example using apartment prices it would be even more ludicrous.
cheers
L bernham
 
LB ,,,

Can you at least admit that it is posi to make good money in real estate right now & for the next 12mths if you know what you are doing. ,,,,,,Com on! ,,,,,You can do it ,, just once for us

For the benifit of new members such as Chester from WA.
There are always opportunities to make large profits if you do your home work with phone calls to council & agents, & solicitors.

LB I don't like posting my buys as I am very active & have learned alot from experts & selfeducation. I don't think it promotes to much good will on the forum EITHER,,( some have told me..). My experience compared to the novice is a factor,,, but not that much....The home I purchased was on the market for 2 weeks before I made WE MADE A move.

WE picked up the home for $695k 42 days ago. Have signed contract to sell it for 1.3mil on friday. (Yes I have changed a few things,,, by spending $55k,,,,But I also will be purchasing another 2 this MTH to repeat the above in 3- 4 months.

Yes to some of the members that sounds pretty good as a return of 100% in 40 days. For sum of us, it happens every month.
My point is ,,, please be a bit flexiable with your comments

Don't come back to me either with a reply that You are a professional developer or some thing like that. I shared this one with a first timer,,, Yes & he found the home as well. I just helped with finance this time .. So Anyone could of profited from this one.

Becuase your lack of knowledge in the Property Market ,,, makes it all the more reason to at least be a bit less formal with your statements.
I proberly know less about the share martket as yourself, but you don't see me talking about things so strongly that it seems I am an experton shares. Your stats,,, Give them a rest,, stats have showed negartive signs for decades but has property suffered in that time,,,,
This thread has so many responses , but most have jumped in trying to say exactly what I have,, only in their words.

We have read your view MANY TIMES. Please don't repeat it again.
Good Luck though in your future investing.

OV
 
I admit it.
There are opportunities to make money in real estate even now, regardless of which way the market heads.

Sometimes its good to have someone keeping peoples expectations and dreams realistic.

I wish I had had the same kind of impartial advice given to me in some of my earlier investments.

Also if people are going to disagree with my views without giving valid reasons, or state opinions based on only some of the evidence, or ask me questions, I feel obliged to reply.
LB
 
OV,
Great turnaround, 750K to 1300K in 42 days, that's 550K in 42 days or about $13,095.00 per day, not too shabby. Seeing as you have now sold, could you give us an address so we could do a drive by and admire your work and hopefully learn a thing or two ?
astro.
 
re; Let me give you an example,

A flipper buys a 2 b/r apt directly from the Developer at 420K
When it comes to settlement he knows that he can't settle so he try to sell it at what the market price is which is 520K
NO SALE

Drop to 495K
Still NO SALE

Drop to 470K
Still waiting


How can you sell a property prior to settlement ? when you dont own it ?
 
Hwd007,, this can be done many times,, I have known property OTP to be resold 6 times before the sttledat has come up. At settlement all parties turn up & chq's go flying every where....

It is legal,,, But if your the last person you you better make sure you can settle on time,, All it is a domino effect for legal minefield,,,

But it is not rare to see this type of buying in Hot spots.

Astro

Not much to see,, As we took the home away we purchased. Just 2000 sqs of flat vacant land with a NEW DA stamp on it,, that was the reason for the $55k spent,,,, $45k for fees with $10k to take the home away
Total $55k.

Don't know why he did not see the site before us??? Some people are just lazy I guess. Maybe he has a Bad name at the council & he needed us to get the DA passed as he could not?

12 week settlement allowed us plenty of time to work on our sale.

The new owner?,, He wants to build 26 units, & hold them for his grandkids.. 1 for each

I have currently stopped with buying rentals for now. Plenty of Land available for good cg, NOT JUST FOR DA work,but plenty for residential homes SITUATIONS.
Land is one of the rarest things in real estate at the current time,, & looks like it will be for a while yet.

Cheers OV
 
Post deleted - I just read suggos post before he edited it and agreed it wasnt worth it.

Got a good thread going. Why spoil it.

Cheers
L Bernham
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by L Bernham
Jerry
I was just giving Investor some evidence as he asked for. It could be taken any way you want or ignored entirely. L BERNHAM

Hmmm evidence hey :rolleyes:

Just because someone started off with a rediculous figure and is now coming down to market price doesn't mean that the market is slowing down. Let me show u a couple of things. ;)

These are the prices paid for all the units in that block.

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bin/rsearch?id=1886695&a=qfp&t=res&submit.x=14&submit.y=9


0172 L1/SP55982 12/10/98 300,000
0172 L2/SP55982 28/09/01 195,000
0172 L3/SP55982 27/05/99 205,000
0172 L6/SP55982 25/02/98 260,000
0172 L7/SP55982 19/01/98 199,000
0172 L8/SP55982 01/12/97 230,000
0172 L9/SP55982 19/12/97 246,050
0172 L10/SP55982 02/05/02 422,000
0172 L11/SP55982 29/03/00 240,000
0172 L12/SP55982 29/09/98 265,000
0172 L13/SP55982 01/12/97 165,958
0172 L14/SP55982 24/05/02 350,000
0172 L15/SP55982 20/09/02 470,000
0172 L16/SP55982 05/12/97 199,000
0172 L17/SP55982 27/04/01 335,000
0172 L18/SP55982 30/10/01 215,000
0172 L19/SP55982 28/11/97 179,000
0172 L20/SP55982 01/12/97 145,000
0172 L21/SP55982 09/11/01 208,000
0172 L22/SP55982 28/11/97 199,000
0172 L23/SP55982 03/07/02 350,000
0172 L24/SP55982 03/12/97 217,550
0172 L25/SP55982 14/03/03 450,000
0172 L26/SP55982 19/02/03 330,000
0172 L27/SP55982 27/04/98 328,500
0172 L28/SP55982 14/10/02 185,000
0172 L29/SP55982 01/12/97 264,000
0172 L30/SP55982 23/10/01 370,000
0172 L31/SP55982 26/07/02 365,000
0172 L32/SP55982 30/07/02 343,250
0172 L33/SP55982 18/12/00 227,000
0172 L34/SP55982 13/09/02 240,000
0172 L35/SP55982 02/12/97 194,000
0172 L36/SP55982 19/12/97 165,000
0172 L37/SP55982 17/12/97 209,000
0172 L38/SP55982 10/10/01 365,000
0172 L39/SP55982 06/02/02 360,500
0172 L40/SP55982 28/11/97 345,000
0172 L41/SP55982 08/03/01 281,500
0172 L42/SP55982 07/06/00 380,000
0172 L43/SP55982 09/07/98 250,000
0172 L44/SP55982 08/12/97 239,000
0172 L45/SP55982 04/03/02 440,000
0172 L46/SP55982 14/05/02 380,000
0172 L47/SP55982 06/02/98 172,500
0172 L48/SP55982 23/10/02 245,000
0172 L49/SP55982 13/05/03 239,000
0172 L50/SP55982 01/12/97 153,000
0172 L51/SP55982 18/03/02 217,000
0172 L52/SP55982 28/06/02 315,000
0172 L53/SP55982 11/12/97 254,338
0172 L54/SP55982 16/04/99 261,000
0172 L55/SP55982 04/10/01 440,000
0172 L56/SP55982 23/04/99 260,000
0172 L57/SP55982 17/05/02 360,000
0172 L58/SP55982 05/12/97 249,000
0172 L59/SP55982 09/07/98 335,000
0172 L60/SP55982 13/08/99 370,000
0172 L61/SP55982 02/12/97 269,000
0172 L62/SP55982 19/07/02 485,000
0172 L63/SP55982 07/03/01 182,000
0172 L64/SP55982 01/12/97 205,000
0172 L65/SP55982 16/04/02 235,000
0172 L66/SP55982 01/12/97 169,000

As u can see L BERNHAM the asking price of 470K is still a bit high. For your theory to be true the asking price has to drop by 40%. :eek:

That would give an asking price of 282K ;)

Please e-mail me when the asking price drops to 282K ;)

Regards

Investor :)

PS. It pays to do your research ;)
No evidence given so far :cool:
 
Investor
Good info obtained there.

but unfortunately your assertions are incorrect.

You said
"As u can see L BERNHAM the asking price of 470K is still a bit high. For your theory to be true the asking price has to drop by 40%"

You are comparing sale prices from as far back as 1997!

Naturally when you compare todays prices with then you are going to show an improvement given the last 5 years or so.

Fact is that there was an apartment that sold for $485K in that block last year.
The aprt in question was on the market for $485K and still didnt sell and is now on the market for $470K and still hasnt sold.
If this doesnt indicate a slow down I dont know what does.

Of course its hard to compare each different aprtment in a block as they all have something unique about them, different sizes , less bdrms etc.

We are trying to see if there is a slow down in the last 3-6 months.
From the length of time these aprtmts are taking to sell I would say yes there is.

In themeantime if you notice the price does drop to 282K please email me too in case I miss it.

LB
 
Latest info from Sydney Morning Herald

Prices for established houses in the capitals rose 5 per cent in the June quarter, says the Bureau of Statistics house price index - the second-biggest jump in 14 years

Sydney's home price inflation accelerated to 3.9 per cent in the June quarter compared with 3.3 per cent for the previous three months, and was up 20.6 per cent in the year to June 30.

But the gains were nationwide, with Brisbane (up 7.9 per cent for the quarter) Adelaide (7.6) and Canberra (7.1) setting the pace.
Canberra and Adelaide had record price growth while rises were more subdued in Melbourne (4.2 per cent) and Hobart (4.4).

An acceleration in new home loan approvals suggests that prices are set to rise further.

AMP Henderson's chief economist, Shane Oliver, said that while the house price bubble posed a threat to economic stability, "at this stage it is hard to see where the trigger for a violent bursting will come from".
 
Back
Top