Buyers Agents

How can you ever match a BA's local knowledge if you are an interstate time poor investor?
You can research on a suburb but it is not easy to go street level as an interstate investor. 10K on a 400K property isn't a large % in a buy & hold strategy as long as they can find the right property.
 
I have read this post with interest, laughter (the $20K overheads about 'running a business' post and the average $10K commission fee for selling agents from Sash is still making me laugh out loud and then some :D) disappointment and a touch of disbelief. The arrogance of some on this forum has stopped surprising me, however after 12 years of hanging around, and their total myopic and bitter view of the world. I'd like to add my 2c worth as a BA and a longstanding member of this forum:

BA's are not for everyone. Period. If you are not in a position to outsource, then don't. Don't complain about the fees. Don't whinge about the benefits of the service. Get out there and do the searching, analysing and negotiating yourself. It's not rocket science. This is true. Just as in selling your property or managing your property no-one is forcing you to outsource. DIY. And whilst you're there do your own conveyancing, book-keeping, accounting, tax returns etc. You'll save a bucketload of $$$$ whilst you're taking all that time off work.

A public forum can be a wonderful place for discussing businesses, people and practices generally however please be mindful of the FACTS before you sledge off anyone. Those of us who post our real names are as open as we can be and I think it's offensive to be so horribly critical of an entire industry when you're hiding behind a pseudonym.

Of course you need to take responsibility for any property you purchase. BAs are NOT financial planners nor do they purport to be so. They work off a criteria and a budget and, whilst can certainly guide and suggest areas, they are NOT FINANCIAL PLANNERS. Unfortunately, we live in an imperfect world with a small population of morons- what can I say?! ;)

Lastly- Handing over a large task, whether or not that involves the sale or purchase of a property, involves TRUST. If you don't trust the person you're hiring then move on. If you are the type of person who's not likely to trust anyone then don't hire them. Simple really.....
 
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Lastly- Handing over a large task, whether or not that involves the sale or purchase of a property, involves TRUST. If you don't trust the person you're hiring then move on. If you are the type of person who's not likely to trust anyone then don't hire them. Simple really.....

GOLD !

Ta
Rolf
 
I know a couple of BA's personally and they are very nice , ethical and knowledgable about what they do . Personally I haven't used their services and I'm not sure if I would , partially because I like the challenge of getting a deal myself .

The other aspect is we don't always know what we're going to end up buying . Often we've started looking for one thing but that process has ended up with us buying something that was different because we saw other opportunities.

A 2 bedder search almost ended up in a small block purchase and morphed in to the purchase of a one and two bedder in line
.

Cliff
 
How does REBAA give their members more credibility than other buyer’s agents? What are the process in place to make sure that REBAA members do the right thing?
(this is just a question... not an attack :)

Hi Devan

Good questions and best answered by reading the eligibility requirements and standards of practice on the site. In a nutshell, for BAs to be accepted by REBAA they need to carry PI insurance (not all BAs do, which is a larger risk for consumers) be practising as independent operators (ie: no selling of real estate) for a minimum period of 12 mths and adhere to the REBAA code of conduct and standards of practice. They also need to be endorsed by 2 other existing REBAA members and provide references of both recent clients and selling agents that they have done business with.

It is a national body, and Australia's only industry group representing BAs. Ensuring that PI insurance is in place with every member and agreeance of the members to adhere to the practices and code of ethics assists in providing comfort to consumers that they are dealing with professional and reputable BAs.

Hope that helps, Devan :)
 
The Buyers Agent... Good? Bad? The Unknown?

Alright so I've started this so a quality discussion can be had on Buyers Agents.

Please feel free to comment your opinion but take note of what you're saying,

Watch the personal attacks as I'm sure mods will be watching closely.

This is obviously a hot topic so I think it's worth the discussion...


Me personally I've never used a BA and at this stage I don't plan to,

Although being usually time poor with other commitments,

I believe when its time to make a large purchase like a property

Then you should be doing your own DD and research.


Mind you I have never purchased in a HOT market where BA as deemed to thrive and I guess again I dont plan to buy in a HOT market... I like warm, before the heat :)


I would love to hear of those who have used a BA successful or not so successful, would likely suggest keeping names out of the public forum space.
 
I have a question about buyers agents. In a market that's so hot right now, are agents still giving buyers agents first opportunity to purchase, or is that not the case now that agents have a massive number of prospective buyers desperate to get in and willing to overpay? I'm looking in a few particular Western Sydney suburbs and if a buyers agent gets hold of low end stock before it hits the open market I'd be interested in having a chat with one.
 
If you use a Buyers agent you are essentially outsourcing your decision making process to someone else and I would expect to pay a reasonable amount for this service. $5-$10K would be reasonable

I think part of the reason for this whole debate is some confusion about what exactly it is that a buyers agent does.

From what I've seen, there are two types of buyers agents out there.

The first type are purely "services" based. They do the grunt-work for the buyer - the research, the negotiating, bidding at auction, etc. (or just perhaps part of the work - eg pay them to bid at auction on your behalf).

They ONLY work based on a brief given to them by the client. The buyers agent may give them information and recommendations - but the decision-making is always done by the client.

There is never any payment from the seller of the property to the buyers agent - they work purely on fee-for-service (which is either a fixed price or some percentage based price), paid by the purchaser.

...

The second type of company calling themselves "buyers agents" have a register of property deals they have "sourced" by doing their own research up-front. They then try and find buyers for these property deals.

These are not property marketing groups (who typically sell off-the-plan developments and get paid by the developer) - the buyers agents will generally try and find GOOD deals :rolleyes: ... and again, no payment is made by the vendor to the buyers agent.

But the process is backwards - they find a property first and then try and find someone to buy it ... rather than the first type of buyers agent who find a client first who then tells them what they are looking for.

I'm not saying this second type of buyers agent is wrong or bad (necessarily) - it is just different, and these differences need to be appreciated to understand the value that different buyers agents bring to the table.

Personally, I don't think this second type of company should call themselves "buyers agents" (for the sake of clarity if nothing else), although I can't think of a more appropriate name yet to describe what they do.

That being said, I'm sure there are "pure" (client-directed) buyers agents who come across deals in their research who might present them to their database of interested clients. At the same time, I'm sure some of the second type of buyers agents also locate property based on client briefs too - so it's never a black-and-white distinction.

I'd be interested in the opinions of the buyers agents on the forum on these differences (we have both types represented here!).
 
I'm enjoying this thread as someone who wants to buy interstate and hasn't decided on whether to use a BA yet so thank you to everyone for their opinions.
 
[deleted text]$9900 in buyers agents fees isn't unreasonable

Not a bad payday for doing a bit of leg work though.I think i was in the wrong industry looking at these figures being thrown around..Sorry,i still cannot get my head around why people will pay these amounts,when to collate all the information you will ever need you can do from a laptop in a remote setting,assuming you cant travel to view your investment.Even in a time poor environment,how much time does one really need?I just went online and in 2 minutes sourced a CF+ group of 3 units.
 
Lets take stock Takestock....
Clever play on words...never heard that before...;)

Selling a property involves say aobut 10k for the sale of an average property in Sydney and a once off fee.
So...you're paying a large sum of money to someone you don't know to do something you can do yourself (as many people do). Sounds like you're already attacking your own argument. BTW, $10K?? for the average property in Sydney. Please share the source of this information: I for one would love to know

As for conveyancing ...dangerous to do it yourself particularly if you get it wrong
As previously stated, I know there are people who do this themselves and would think you're crazy for paying someone else to do something you could do yourself. But obviously we all have different time restraints, different inclinations to do the work and different abilities, and therefore it is quite reasonable for you to pay someone else to do the tasks you don't wish to do. Starting to see the point here..

I would also argue that it is "dangerous to do...if you get it wrong" your own real estate purchasing and selling. You seem to regard yourself as quite an accomplished property investor. That may, or may not, be the case, and if it is, well done. However, the annals of property investing are littered with sad and desperate stories of inexperienced and gullible folk who purchased properties ill-suited to their needs or at highly inflated prices. I would expect that a good buyers' agent could have helped those people enormously.

Now for buying properties. and not having the inclination or time to do it themselves. I think is code for laziness.
Similarly, as discussed above, with selling properties or with conveyancing (or anything else that requires research and understanding to achieve the best outcome). Yet, most people would not go around saying you're lazy (mostly out of respect, and an appreciation that everyone's situation is different).

Question...why would you want to hand $100s of thousands in terms of investment to someone else.
Answer: Ahh Grasshopper, you have answered your own question when you considered selling through a real estate agent.

Where I sit I can't recall anyone who has been successful and going onto a SUCCESSFUL property portfolio without applying effort.
Well, I'm not sure where you're sitting, however, I agree that success in property (and investing, and everything else in life) requires effort. Along that path of success, one has to appreciate their strengths and weaknesses. The smartest investors are those you understand this and leverage their time, stress and money by utilising people who have more skill and experience than themselves in certain areas.

If you feel that you don't need a buyers' agent, then good on you. However, I don't understand why you feel it necessary to go out of your way and denigrate those who do (ie calling them lazy). After all, people who sell their own properties could go out of their way to ridicule you for wasting your money paying a selling agent, but why would they bother? They would probably find it simply disrespectful and would almost certainly have the maturity to understand that you simply didn't feel confident doing it yourself and that you wished to pay someone else to handle that for you.

It is quite funny that the people responding to the posts defending using BAs are novices....

What is actually funny, is your ability to jump to erroneous conclusions so quickly. I don't post here very often; in fact, I hardly read the forum anymore and so I apologise if I don't respond to any posts for a few days or even weeks, however, I'm simply too busy with my business, my investing and my family life. I recently completed a 6 block subdivision and I am currently involved in a consortium (as an owner) with the construction of a large hospital. (And yes...I've owned and renovated more residential properties than I care to think of in the last 25 years).
Novice...Not really (even if that is what it says on the Forum)

Good luck with your investing (and I hope you continue to have great success), however, I urge you to concentrate on progressing your own cause, and to have an appreciation for everyone else's situation.
 
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Not a bad payday for doing a bit of leg work though.I think i was in the wrong industry looking at these figures being thrown around..Sorry,i still cannot get my head around why people will pay these amounts,when to collate all the information you will ever need you can do from a laptop in a remote setting,assuming you cant travel to view your investment.Even in a time poor environment,how much time does one really need?I just went online and in 2 minutes sourced a CF+ group of 3 units.
Me neither. I just settled a personal injury case for a pensioner where I will probably charge about that much after carrying the work for 3 years. I think (no disrespect to any BAs on the forum but) it is a bit like gurus- people pay the lump sum and think it will get them on the road to wealth- any by paying they are divesting themselves of responsibility (in their minds at least). If I get to see a conveyance before it is signed I will usually negotiate the price (and don't the agents hate that) and throw in extra terms all for the standard cost of a buy conveyance (less then $1k!). Clearly I am underselling myself by pegging my remuneration to an hourly rate or return. $10k would be my deposit on the next investment property. Just saying.
How much due diligence have you done on that group of units?
And how much would a BA do? There is no charter, it would seem, as to what is expected from a BA. As for a retainer- pardon my ignorance but what does that pay for? For the BA to pick up the phone and talk to you?
 
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Most investors start with the basic figures,as i have done with this one.With the programs i have i could Analise the info if it were on hand in say,1 hour to work out if the deal really stacks up.This is the software i use..........Brilliant.

Okay, so you're happy with the numbers. What other due diligence would you do?
 
$10k would be my deposit on the next investment property. Just saying.

How much of that $10K do you think is profit?

Think about all of the admin overheads of running a business, plus the costs of actually doing the work.

The amount pocketed by the buyers agent at the end of the day will be a LOT less than $10K.

I think you're under the impression that a buyers agent will simply take your money and send you a list of houses for you to choose from - you pick a house, sign on the dotted line, and they get to spend your $10K ??

Perhaps some buyers agents work like that, but not the ones I know (see my previous post on the differences between buyers agents).

And how much would a BA do? There is no charter, it would seem, as to what is expected from a BA. As for a retainer- pardon y ignorance but what does that pay for? For the BA to pick up the phone and talk to you?

The BA will do what you agree to do with them for the price.

Taking info from Jacque's website as an example for her "Full Search, Evaluate and Negotiate" service:

Brief – Once you’ve established your budget and are ready to buy, we arrange a thorough briefing session with you to fully understand your property needs, discuss your requirements and expectations and build a comprehensive wishlist. It is essential that you have finance or a pre-approval in place before we commence a search on your behalf.

Search – We then extensively search across the Sydney market for all available properties that match your criteria, utilizing a variety of sources, including agent-only databases. We contact every selling agent in the target area, as well as any private sellers to ensure that we have the opportunity to view the widest range of properties possible. With our continual presence in the market, we are also able to gain access to “silent listings”, which are often not advertised or available to the general public. If you are keen on a specific street/area, we can also arrange to individually canvass for private sales as well. Updates on all property inspections are emailed to you in report-style format on a regular basis, to allow you to clearly view the search progress in detail.

Shortlist – After narrowing the search to the potential properties that fit your brief we arrange inspections at your convenience. We are able to provide digital photos/video if you are unable to inspect or are purchasing from interstate or overseas.

Evaluate – Once you’ve identified shortlisted property that suits, we conduct a detailed objective market analysis to determine the current market worth of that property. With access to agent-only databases and comparable sales, we are able to determine an appropriate price for the property. This ensures you don’t overpay or allow emotion to cloud judgement in the purchasing process.

Negotiate – We commence negotiations on your behalf with the seller/selling agent, with the intention of obtaining the best possible price, terms and conditions for the property. Depending on market conditions, this process can occur over a period of days, up until formal exchange of contracts.

Acquisition – Once an offer has been accepted, we liaise with your solicitor/conveyancer to ensure the contract of sale is reviewed and to verify that all legal requirements are met prior to unconditional exchange. We are also able to coordinate correspondence with your financier and inspectors to ensure all parties are on task for a smooth settlement.

Contact – We maintain contact with you until final settlement, to ensure all is running efficiently. If required, we are happy to conduct the pre-settlement inspection on your behalf, to ensure all inclusions are intact as per the contract of sale. For investors, we offer a complimentary property management interview service, to ensure that your investment property is managed by a reputable and experienced local property manager.

From Allen Real Estate website (another BA on the forums):

This is our full service option and the most popular choice with home buyers and investors

Detailed brief
A complimentary meeting to, establish your property goals, requirements, wish list and time frames for a purchase.

Develop a strategy for purchase based on your goals.

Search & Refine
Research to find target areas and properties, find properties and areas to present to you for your for feedback. Refine and repeat.

Shoes on the pavement research within a suburb, street and individual property level. The physical work of doing due diligence and documenting it to complement the online research.

Shortlist, Evaluate & Negotiate
Narrow down our search to a shortlist of properties suitable for purchase.

Evaluate market value and prepare a negotiation strategy based on all information gathered about the properties and sellers. Negotiate assertively and in a respectful manner on your behalf.

Negotiate and manage terms, conditions and price of contract until acceptance of offer

Purchase & Settlement
Ensure settlement is proceeding on course.

Arrange all necessary related consultant services. To be paid by yourself if required.

  • Finance broker
  • Conveyancing
  • Quantity surveyor
  • Valuer
  • Building & Pest
  • Property Management

... seems to me like they do a fair bit for their money!
 
Okay, so you're happy with the numbers. What other due diligence would you do?

As i only buy in SA so i can physically have close access to the property i would do Building and Pest,i would run the vacancy rates etc through RP Data,to which i subscribe,i would look at council development plans for future growth plans,i would run through services available within 10 minutes of the said property.I would have my trusted conveyancer ensure all the titles etc were correct.The finance would be already approved waiting for security.I would go over the leases,strata,sinking fund etc to ensure all is correct and up to date,i would require a pre settlement inspection before the funds were released.
 
No diss respect Sim,but we are getting a lot of info from you regarding this thread,and not much from any BA,s.Why is that??
 
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