CBA Valuation - are they undervaluing properties?

[sash]

Hi All,

Thought this might serve as a warning to people dealing with the CBA.

Had a major stoush with CBA regarding the val on latest purchase. I did my research and on all accounts there was not properties on the street I bought sell for less than 230k in the last 2 years. And that which sold was an anamoly as it was a quick resale during the GFC.

Interesting...I got up CBA and they valued it to the purchase price after running around like idiots. But this came at the cost of my relationship with the bank after 15 years.

As a result...I have asked for payout figures on all my loans. I plan to move it lock stock and barrell if all the valuation on my properties are under 80% LVR.

I thought I would post this because my personal opinion is that banks like the CBA are putting undue pressure on valuers to undervalue properties.

What also astounded me is the level of incompetence of the Area Manager I was dealing with.

Anycase...I thought I would post this as a warning. I know the property market is bad....but after having dones all the research and having the hard evidence..and then still getting a valuation below the purchase that is a bit rich.

 

[bluestorm]

Maybe the property spruikers still haven't yet realised that the market is cooling. CBA may have got it correct for what it will be worth in 2yrs time (just protecting themselves).

 

[Jamie M]

I just had a CBA val carried out on one of my IPs - it came in at what I was expecting.

Cheers

Jamie

 

[Mick C]

Sash, Our of interest what did the value came up as? 5 % less? 10?

Regards
Michael

 

[sash]

Mick it was over 10%....which means their valuer has not idea.....and the funny thing it I disputed it and it came up to the purchase price.

This really pissed me off.....so I am pulling everything off them.

The funny thing is that I have also cc'd the retail head in the email but Ralph Norris's email bounces back. Must be all those upset customers - i.e. Storm Financial who the CBA has scewed over...and finally had to pay up.

I cc'd the email to the CEO of another bank and someone actually called. So who knows this may work.

All is fair in "war"...

Sash, Our of interest what did the value came up as? 5 % less? 10?

Regards
Michael

 

[Mick C]

ahahh Sash, i would hate to be the branch staff at CBA serving you...you sound determine ..good work

With all due respect to valuers, it's funny how they change their mind when you complain...i do believe valuers have some sort of agreement to get the lowest market value as possible ; even though a lot of brokers would tell me otherwise ditto.

In regards to Mr Norris, his email always bounce unless it's a internal CBA email address- it's a great system ahah...you have to email his secretary ( i think her name is Elizabeth Wade...or something like that).


But in all seriousness, your getting a rate of 6,68% with CBA? i doubt the another major banks would consider such a low rate....


Regards
Michael

 

[sash]

Elizabeth Wade..is it....hmmm.....

I did not get 6.67% with CBA it was NAB on 950k plus.....CBA won't budge on 6.82%.... NAB will definintely do it on over $1m no questions asked.

ahahh Sash, i would hate to be the branch staff at CBA serving you...you sound determine ..good work

With all due respect to valuers, it's funny how they change their mind when you complain...i do believe valuers have some sort of agreement to get the lowest market value as possible ; even though a lot of brokers would tell me otherwise ditto.

In regards to Mr Norris, his email always bounce unless it's a internal CBA email address- it's a great system ahah...you have to email his secretary ( i think her name is Elizabeth Wade...or something like that).


But in all seriousness, your getting a rate of 6,68% with CBA? i doubt the another major banks would consider such a low rate....


Regards
Michael

 

[el caballo]

Sash,

Disappointing to hear. Surprising too, given the magnitude of your business, and conservative nature of it, from a cash flow perspetive.

The CBA has been very good for me - but as per your note, I shall be wary.

Cheers.

 

[Rolf Latham]

cba use valex and in general u will get a valuer which is a "random" choice from their panel.

U will occassionally get a bozo valuer but thats not unique to CBA, so jumping ship isnt going to solve that problem.

Where vals are an issue for whatever reason ( ranging from perceived 2 tier market to white picket fence syndrome) the best approach we find is to use a lender where we can get the val BEFORE appln. CBA will let u do that, but at a small cost

Finally, valuers are human too.

ta

rolf

 

[Bigtone]

Mick it was over 10%....which means their valuer has not idea.....and the funny thing it I disputed it and it came up to the purchase price.

This really pissed me off.....so I am pulling everything off them.

The funny thing is that I have also cc'd the retail head in the email but Ralph Norris's email bounces back. Must be all those upset customers - i.e. Storm Financial who the CBA has scewed over...and finally had to pay up.

I cc'd the email to the CEO of another bank and someone actually called. So who knows this may work.

All is fair in "war"...

sash don't through the baby out with the bathwater.

frustrating yes but changing banks and all the related credit enquiries will slow down your investment goals.

cba use valex to manage their valuations and so do many other bank so u may get the same valuation company in that area anyway.

in all reality cba r highly unlikely to have said anything at all to the valuation company let alone the valuer himself. u requested an increase and received it.
so no big deal really, could happen at any bank.


banks and their money are a tool to help u achieve want you want. forget this 15 year relationship stuff, it is a business transaction, you r nothing more than a number to them and cba should be merely one of the tools in your belt to be used when required.

by all means vent on here about the experience but don't let it effect your goals and strategies.

onwards and upwards!

 

[sash]

BT

Yes...not throwing the baby out with the bathwater....but just line of questioning with the CBA has resulted in a lot of what I call "color and movement". They have even offered to put me in Premium Banking Woopee F&cking Kayaa....I said....

I agree that banks are just tools (literally ) in my acqusition phase.

On a positive side I have a pretty good banker at NAB....transfering quite a few loans at the moment.

Also agree about upwards and onwards....I did some numbers and realised I have hit a new milestone in gross assets.

Oh by the way...I found out that Suncorp will try to match other banks rates...incase anybody is shopping around.

sash don't through the baby out with the bathwater.

frustrating yes but changing banks and all the related credit enquiries will slow down your investment goals.

cba use valex to manage their valuations and so do many other bank so u may get the same valuation company in that area anyway.

in all reality cba r highly unlikely to have said anything at all to the valuation company let alone the valuer himself. u requested an increase and received it.
so no big deal really, could happen at any bank.


banks and their money are a tool to help u achieve want you want. forget this 15 year relationship stuff, it is a business transaction, you r nothing more than a number to them and cba should be merely one of the tools in your belt to be used when required.

by all means vent on here about the experience but don't let it effect your goals and strategies.

onwards and upwards!

 

[Wunderbar]

Obviously your valuers have been reading too many D&G articles in The Age...can't really blame the bank in this case...

 

[RumpledElf]

Last val we got from the CBA was 40% under what I was hoping for and maybe 30% under what I was expecting - 6 months ago now. I complained bitterly and formerly and my only response was that you can list your house at any amount you want to so we don't care what YOU think its worth and we're not revaluing it and our valuation from 2008 (before we STARTED renovating) is perfectly fine thankyouverymuch.

So any subsequent loans are going to be with other banks by necessity since we can't get them to revalue this house as they've already said they won't revalue until we've finished renovating but won't tell us what 'finished' means - there's always *something* you can do to a house. I mean, if we hold this house a bit longer it could use a new front fence, a carport, maybe a new shower screen, the list goes on. Nothing essential, just nice to have. Does it ever end?

They didn't even try and stop us moving our construction loan to another bank. In fact, they hung up on me last time they called (last week, to ask which bank we were moving to - I had to spell it out to them 5 freakin times. h-o-m-e-s-t-a-r-t). Charming bunch.

On their figures though the house will have a 11-12% yield, which does sound good. Better than the 7-8% you get on every other house around here.

 

[beachgurl]

I've found recently that the contractors Valex appoint don't always know the area they are valuing. This has pretty much applied for all regional properties I've had valued recently. One valuer even put in a high risk rating and unneccessary comments and when I questioned him he said "look, I really don't know the area that well but talking to the locals at the pub, they won't buy in that estate". Most professional.

 

[RumpledElf]

"look, I really don't know the area that well but talking to the locals at the pub, they won't buy in that estate". Most professional.

Gawd, that's terrible - and probably what we got too, our valuer seemed completely inept (we followed him around and he took dozens of photos of every unrenovated part of the house - ie, the laundry - and none of the renovated parts so when I put in my formal complaint they had photos of the original tip the house was in in 2008 plus the unpainted laundry in 2010 to 'prove' my house was not even slightly renovated yet and thus completely brushed off my complaint and there was nothing I could do about it).

Locals here think the new estates are awful (they are selling really well though) because they are only 500-600sqm each and everyone knows that noone could posibly want to buy a house on any less than 1000sqm. Never ask regional locals if progress is good.

 

[sash]

I got a response from CBA Group Executive Retail Banking after cc'ing in my email. At least he responded unlike Ralph Norris who's email bounces back...me thinks that he was getting too many irrate emails. I have put XXX's to ensure that I don't name people directly.

If this bloke or his underling sends something like this...then it summarizes what CBA's service is like. Note also no numbers of email are given...typical....

Note that no contact details are provided. Very different to NAB which seems to have team which addresses concerns via a team, though the exec does not respond personally. Nice touch.

Dear Mr XXXX,

Thank you for your email. I understand that you have been dealing with a number of senior members of the Retail Bank. I note this matter has been referred to XXXX in Group Customer Relations, who has my full support.

I urge you to consider the options XXXX has put to you which I understand are very competitive and a reasonable resolution to your complaint. However, if these are not still not acceptable to you then it may be appropriate to consider alternatives outside the Commonwealth Bank.

I understand you are dissatisfied with the level of service provided by XXX and XXX. I can assure you that these concerns are taken seriously and that they have been passed on to their Senior Management for review and the appropriate action will be taken.

Regards

XXXX
_______________________________
Commonwealth Bank
XXXXXXX
Group Executive
Retail Banking Services

 

[Mick C]

Ohhh dear me, one of CBA's motto is to exceed in customer service and this is what we get from an Executive manager" consider alternatives outside the Commonwealth Bank.." and i have CBA shares as well...ummmm

Only a top end manger can get away with responses like this...any another employee would get a warning of some sort - unless the customer was "verbally and physical aggressive + threatening...which i doubt you were Sash

Regards
Michael

I got a response from CBA Group Executive Retail Banking after cc'ing in my email. At least he responded unlike Ralph Norris who's email bounces back...me thinks that he was getting too many irrate emails. I have put XXX's to ensure that I don't name people directly.

If this bloke or his underling sends something like this...then it summarizes what CBA's service is like. Note also no numbers of email are given...typical....

Note that no contact details are provided. Very different to NAB which seems to have team which addresses concerns via a team, though the exec does not respond personally. Nice touch.

Dear Mr XXXX,

Thank you for your email. I understand that you have been dealing with a number of senior members of the Retail Bank. I note this matter has been referred to XXXX in Group Customer Relations, who has my full support.

I urge you to consider the options XXXX has put to you which I understand are very competitive and a reasonable resolution to your complaint. However, if these are not still not acceptable to you then it may be appropriate to consider alternatives outside the Commonwealth Bank.

I understand you are dissatisfied with the level of service provided by XXX and XXX. I can assure you that these concerns are taken seriously and that they have been passed on to their Senior Management for review and the appropriate action will be taken.

Regards

XXXX
_______________________________
Commonwealth Bank
XXXXXXX
Group Executive
Retail Banking Services

 

[sash]

Mate...I have an email trail which would make you tear with laughter.

I have had some robust conversations...sure I have peppered with a few expletives out of frustration..but nothing aggressive.

I doubt the top end executive would have constructed that...if they did they should be fired on the spot!!! Probably one of brainless idiots they employ.

Still reeling from that response......

I have tucked away the emails and am keeping them so that I can strategically use them at some point!

Ohhh dear me, one of CBA's motto is to exceed in customer service and this is what we get from an Executive manager" consider alternatives outside the Commonwealth Bank.." and i have CBA shares as well...ummmm

Only a top end manger can get away with responses like this...any another employee would get a warning of some sort - unless the customer was "verbally and physical aggressive + threatening...which i doubt you were Sash

Regards
Michael

 

[Mick C]

Ill buy one of your CBA email for $10 ahaha

 

[Token Funder]

Mate...I have an email trail which would make you tear with laughter.

I have had some robust conversations...sure I have peppered with a few expletives out of frustration..but nothing aggressive.

I doubt the top end executive would have constructed that...if they did they should be fired on the spot!!! Probably one of brainless idiots they employ.

Still reeling from that response......

I have tucked away the emails and am keeping them so that I can strategically use them at some point!

Quick tip: expletives in e-mails tend not to help and generally aren't put in the "not aggressive" category.

Hence, the thanks-but-no-thanks letter from Mr McEwan.