Combine Stormwater Drain blockages!

[Trawler]

Hi all,

We have a property in a central Brisbane suburb. The next door neighbour has complained to us saying that a drain that takes the stormwater from his house runs under the yard of ours. He claims that this drain has become blocked under our property due to roots running through the pipe from a tree in our backyard. Subsequently he claims his property's backyard floods whenever a storm hits.

The neighbour had a plumber in look at it, and has provided us with the plumber's description of the problem, along with a quote to have it fixed. While the neighbour has not directly suggested we pay for problem to be fixed, it sure is what he's hoping for as he claims it is our "private plumbing issue".

Our property does not flood during rain events. I am not aware that our property uses this drain at all.

The actions I've taken so far:

* Told the neighbour to contact Council about the issue. As this is a combine drain it may be that the Council has some responsibility in this matter.
* Failling Council not being able to act, obtain an extra two quotes on getting the blockage fixed. Note that I've not agreed to any action thusfar.

I've dealt with combine sewerage lines before, and in that instance it was Council who (cheaply and apportionly) fixed the issue. But combined stormwater drains are a new one to me. Also it being that a tree in our property that may have caused the issue could complicate things.

Has anyone here faced a similiar issue? How would you recommend I tackle the issue?

Update: Just got off the phone to BCC. Apparently it isn't a stormwater drain but a Roof Water Drain (I think the neighbour is using it as a yard runoff though). They will send someone to look at it within 7 days. Will know more then regarding costs, etc.

 

[wylie]

Would be keen to hear the outcome of this. How on earth does your neighbour "know" that it is tree roots from a tree in your back yard. One of our IPs has about a 70m deep yard (fenceline), and roots were constantly blocking the old clay pipes.

We bit the bullet and replaced the sewer, and changed its course of travel to enable a new house to go in the back at some stage. The tree roots were coming from neighbouring properties and the plumber could not tell which tree, or which property.

Good thing you have not committed to anything.

 

[Trawler]

Would be keen to hear the outcome of this. How on earth does your neighbour "know" that it is tree roots from a tree in your back yard.

The neighbours had a CCTV inspection done. This is what the neighbours plumber quoted to rectify the problem:

Suggested scope of work options and price to rectify as follows:

Use electric eel and tree root cutter to clear roots. $320.00
Use drain camera to check serviceability of existing drain.$198.00
If root ball is excessive and eel is unable to rectify excavation of drain and subsequent repair will be required. $1220.00
Drain camera downstream of root ball after excavation if required. Nil allowance for any more problems found downstream of this point. $198.00

What's interesting is that the plumber refers to it as a Storm Water Drain, however Council say it is a Roof Water Drain. Might make no difference - or all the difference!

Will keep the thread updated with developments. May be handy for others down the track.

 

[wylie]

The neighbours had a CCTV inspection done.

I still don't believe the plumber can definitely say the roots are coming from a particular tree. The tree that is closest to the roots might not be the offending one, at least not according to my plumber. Tree roots can travel a very long way.

I think your neighbours just want you to pay for the repair, and I always thought combine issues were shared issues (and costs).

I'll bet if the roots were coming from a tree on their property, they would be asking you to share the costs because it is a combine drain .

 

[Trawler]

I still don't believe the plumber can definitely say the roots are coming from a particular tree. The tree that is closest to the roots might not be the offending one, at least not according to my plumber. Tree roots can travel a very long way.

I think your neighbours just want you to pay for the repair, and I always thought combine issues were shared issues (and costs).

I'll bet if the roots were coming from a tree on their property, they would be asking you to share the costs because it is a combine drain .

Very good point! I just ran with the assumption that he somehow knew it was one of our tree's roots. Assumptions are always a bad thing.

I re-read his letter carefully and while he states the problem occurs under my backyard, he does not say it is roots from our tree that are causing the issue.

The tree in our backyard is large but they also have quite a few large trees close to the fenceline. Hmm. But does it make any difference if the roots are from his tree or ours?

 

[wylie]

The tree in our backyard is large but they also have quite a few large trees close to the fenceline. Hmm. But does it make any difference if the roots are from his tree or ours?

I would say "no difference" but I don't really know.

The BCC should know the answer to that. I also thought a "stormwater drain" was the same as a "roof water drain". Aren't they the same thing?

Please report back when BCC staffer has visited. We had a neighbour down hill from an IP a year ago call us and say our "storm water" was undermining their footings . We checked our downpipes to find they have probably been silted up for 50 years, so we fixed it with a gravel pit. Plumber told us it would be silted up within a few years, but as far as BCC is concerned we have addressed the problem.

No way were our downpipes causing their footing issues either. They were on stumps like every other house up hill from them. We tried to explain that the water they are copping is the water coming across our block, which comes from the other six houses uphill from us.

Some people just want others to fix (pay for) their problems.

 

[Peterw]

Trawler. It is reasonably common, when houses are built, that they then enter into an arrangement with a neighbour, to run their water discharge through their land. This came about, when the original subdivision was done, water discharge was not required to be run to the street, so now the slopes etc, do not allow that to be done. That being said, it is highly unlikely, that it is a "common" one. To check, you can get a copy of your drainage plan, and it will show both sewer as well as water discharge lines, or it should. If it is, as I suspect, not a common line, then I do not believe that you will have any responsibility to contribute to maintenance. I think the visit from the council, should uncover a lot for you. They may even have a copy of the plans with them.

 

[HappyCamper]

There's a plumbing and drainage search you can get the council to do for you. From memory, it's about $40.

 

[wylie]

Or firstly check the plan you would have got when you bought the house.

When we did a big reno, BCC tried to make us pay for a separate sewer connection from our house to the street. We were on a combine sewer with our down-hill neighbours, but once we renovated BCC forced the issue.

Luckily, our plumber checked the plan and paperwork we had from the search from the purchase. On the attachment was a statement by BCC that we had a sewer connection sitting waiting for us if we needed it. It was a mistake by BCC but they had no choice but to honour it.

Everything stopped for about nine weeks while (according to the plumber) the approval paperwork would have been shuffled from in-box to in-box, while everyone tried to not have to include the cost (about $12K or $15K from memory) in their budget.

The wait was annoying, but cost us nothing except frustration, and we saved a lot of money.

 

[Aaron Sice]

Combine issues are SHARED issues and any/all monies payable are equally divisible by all parites involved.

 

[jezza]

Trawler

This is quite interesting, what happens if you do nothing?
I would say you push back on him to pay or you never know when it could occur again. Without knowing the state of the block of land but why can't he pay to have a new one inserted so it goes direct to te street sewer and not through your backyard. Remember he paid for the plumber that does not make it right

Jezza

 

[Trawler]

Trawler

This is quite interesting, what happens if you do nothing?

I imagine the neighbour would get annoyed? Maybe he'd get legal?

Without knowing the state of the block of land but why can't he pay to have a new one inserted so it goes direct to te street sewer and not through your backyard.

He could do that, but it'd cost much more than just clearing out the line under our property.

I'm not averse to coughing up if it's due, I just want to find out exactly where I stand.

 

[Trawler]

Combine issues are SHARED issues and any/all monies payable are equally divisible by all parites involved.

I believe it could be up to four properties that feed into this one line. My house is unlucky enough to be at the end of the block that they all feed into. Does that mean all four properties would share in the cost of rectification or just poor old me if the fault just happens to be under our property?

 

[Peterw]

Trawler, have you established if you are connected as well? Again, its my view that it is your neighbours responsibility. The council should be able to confirm whose is connected, and how it was originally installed, and who is responsible for up keep

 

[Trawler]

Trawler, have you established if you are connected as well? Again, its my view that it is your neighbours responsibility. The council should be able to confirm whose is connected, and how it was originally installed, and who is responsible for up keep

Nah I haven't got the drainage plans. Was just going to wait and have a chat to the council blokes who are due to look at the issue sometime within the next week.

Another point I forgot to mention was what happened when I called Council. They bounced me to Queensland Urban Utilities as they apprently look after stormwater drains. However the chap at QUU had a closer look and told me that as it's a roof water drain and that's council's responsibility, and bouced me back to BCC. Chap at QUU talked to the BCC staffer directly, and BCC agreed to send someone out to have a look.

 

[voodoo]

Trawler.
If the pipe line is a stormwater easement running thru the properties it will be a Council issue.
If the pipeline is an interlotment drain then it is the owners of all properties to sort the issue.
These interlotment drains are put in by the developers to drain each house block and have nothing to do with the local council, and the council will not even look at it.
These drains get to a certain age or never have maintenance done on them by the owners and then they become a real problem between the neighbours.
Good luck,

 

[Trawler]

So council didn't call me back in 7 days as they advised. I just spend over half an hour with them to figure out what's going on, and I have a result.

It's a Roof Water connection and is a private drain, so not council's responsibility.

So now it's back to discussions with the neighbour. I've not agreed to any action as yet. I will ask him to supply another two quotes from different plumbers before I make a decision on the matter. I think that's fair under the circumstances.

 

[Peterw]

Trawler, as I mentioned before, in my mind, the people connected to it, would be responsble for it, as well as any repair needed to your property and or gardens. If you are not connected, you should not be up for any costs. I also assume that this was negotiated with the previous owner, as it is usual for this agreement, for one party to run their roof water through some one elses property, to be in writing, and I would be surprised if the council did not get a copy of this agreement. Good luck with it.

 

[Trawler]

Trawler, as I mentioned before, in my mind, the people connected to it, would be responsble for it, as well as any repair needed to your property and or gardens. If you are not connected, you should not be up for any costs. I also assume that this was negotiated with the previous owner, as it is usual for this agreement, for one party to run their roof water through some one elses property, to be in writing, and I would be surprised if the council did not get a copy of this agreement. Good luck with it.

Hi Peter, thanks for your thoughts (and well wishes!).

Yes this is an established dwelling, and I have no idea if an agreement was drawn up between the parties. The 1946 photography shows that the neighbours property existed back then, but my lot was vacant. That doesn't help much in the grand scheme of things.

My solicitor has advised me to get my own plumber out to assess the situation. So there's my first cost.

I might wander down to Brisbane Square if I get the time tomorrow to see if Council can be any more helpful in person.

 

[Peterw]

Trawler, it does not necessarily have to be connected with when the houses were built, it may have been triggered when some work was done. I put a deck on a house that was not connected to a roof water system, and that was the trigger. I opted for a "pit" rather than trying to deal with a neighbour and run it through their yard to the street below. I feel certyain, that the council can shed more light on the when it was constructed, and who is connected, and who is responsible. Again, good luck.