Darfur..
- Thread starter Shonnie
- Start date
hi Shonnie
not sure the reason for the question but darfur is a or was once a city in the sudan
and was and still is a trading hub of the african continent.
it has been and still is today a center for what was the old type of slave trade banned and outlaw by the free world some time ago and has become the new type of economic/ displaced slave trade city that it has become.
it is an area that is self imploding not because of anything it has done but because the areas around it have been destroyed by civil war and unrest and the people have moved to very large camps and as this was a huge trading center people or groups have amassed there.
and with that has come the nomadic slave traders and they have been killing any person they wish for any reason and taking slave thru sudan to work
(the real loses are the dinka tribes)
doing what ever and there is very little that has been done to stop them and in some case they are government backed.
why you may ask
these areas have
no oil
no diamonds
no gas
so they have no big brother to stop the nomads.
so its simply a free for all without anyone to stop them.
sad but true
but so is sierra leon so is parts of chad,
there are lots of places around the sudan that will have the same issues its just the name that changes.
understand yes
seen any change in the last 20 years no
will there be any change
hoped there would with nelson but don't think so
not sure the reason for the question but darfur is a or was once a city in the sudan
and was and still is a trading hub of the african continent.
it has been and still is today a center for what was the old type of slave trade banned and outlaw by the free world some time ago and has become the new type of economic/ displaced slave trade city that it has become.
it is an area that is self imploding not because of anything it has done but because the areas around it have been destroyed by civil war and unrest and the people have moved to very large camps and as this was a huge trading center people or groups have amassed there.
and with that has come the nomadic slave traders and they have been killing any person they wish for any reason and taking slave thru sudan to work
(the real loses are the dinka tribes)
doing what ever and there is very little that has been done to stop them and in some case they are government backed.
why you may ask
these areas have
no oil
no diamonds
no gas
so they have no big brother to stop the nomads.
so its simply a free for all without anyone to stop them.
sad but true
but so is sierra leon so is parts of chad,
there are lots of places around the sudan that will have the same issues its just the name that changes.
understand yes
seen any change in the last 20 years no
will there be any change
hoped there would with nelson but don't think so
Shonnie I would say quite a few people have heard about Darfur, simply because it's very much on our national radar due to the oil there.
I would rate it as a possible destination for Australian troops at some point simply because thats the way oil politics seem to work out with the US tracking the scent and us following. Though the mix of Chinese interest and racial conflict makes it a particularly volatile scenario. Stratfor publish the best work that I know of about these type of things.
If I was on the ADF I would certainly be researching Sudan and not worrying too much about Zimbabwe, cynical thinker that I am.
I would rate it as a possible destination for Australian troops at some point simply because thats the way oil politics seem to work out with the US tracking the scent and us following. Though the mix of Chinese interest and racial conflict makes it a particularly volatile scenario. Stratfor publish the best work that I know of about these type of things.
If I was on the ADF I would certainly be researching Sudan and not worrying too much about Zimbabwe, cynical thinker that I am.
We're already there and have been for a couple of years:
http://www.defence.gov.au/opazure/index.htm
I'd heard of the place. I knew it was in Africa, but I wasn't sure where or what country.
I knew there were big problems there, but I suppose that's cause it's in Africa.
Since you metioned it, I then googled up some info. I know a bit more now.
See ya's.
I knew there were big problems there, but I suppose that's cause it's in Africa.
Since you metioned it, I then googled up some info. I know a bit more now.
See ya's.
OK, since you've given me an opening, I'm going to display my pride for my sister. 
She went to Sudan as the Australian Contingent Commander in 2005. When she was there, UNMIS wasn't active in Darfur, though, and I believe they're still not. I think the African military coalition (name escapes me) were the only ones brave enough to go in there. UNMIS is a "peace keeping" rather than "peace making" mission - and peace hasn't yet been established in Darfur, sadly.
She went to Sudan as the Australian Contingent Commander in 2005. When she was there, UNMIS wasn't active in Darfur, though, and I believe they're still not. I think the African military coalition (name escapes me) were the only ones brave enough to go in there. UNMIS is a "peace keeping" rather than "peace making" mission - and peace hasn't yet been established in Darfur, sadly.What I know about Darfur....native tribes in the southwest getting slaughtered by majority Muslims in the north
UN wanted to go in a few years ago, to stop the genocide, but China had just done a deal with the Muslim Govt to tie up their oil reserves. So China vetoed the UN going in.
Ergo, China is the reason Sudanese refugees are in Australia.
China are still living in the Dark Ages when it comes to human rights and ethics......but am sure it is the small minded egomaniacs at the top. Most Chinese seem ok in my books.
But get over it. What is going on there has been going on for centuries between your ancestors and others.
UN wanted to go in a few years ago, to stop the genocide, but China had just done a deal with the Muslim Govt to tie up their oil reserves. So China vetoed the UN going in.
Ergo, China is the reason Sudanese refugees are in Australia.
China are still living in the Dark Ages when it comes to human rights and ethics......but am sure it is the small minded egomaniacs at the top. Most Chinese seem ok in my books.
But get over it. What is going on there has been going on for centuries between your ancestors and others.
Nothing surprises me Strannik, including your implication that the US has ever vetoed a UN resolution aimed at stopping the wholesale slaughter of 500,000 Africans.
But then there's a slim chance you are referring to the indifference of Western Europe to Bosnia Herzegovina, because it suited them.
Well, firstly, US hasn't ratified Hague Convention, which speaks for itself.
Then there are such things like Guantanamo Bay, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Vietnam and so on.
Iraq alone is from 151,000 to 1,033,000 violent deaths as a result of conflict (depending on which source you trust more). I'd say the real figure is somewhere in the middle between those 2 values.
Then there is Vietnam - estimated 500,000 to 2,000,000 civilian deaths sustained by the entire Vietnamese population during the conflict.
Speaking of UN resolutions, US has vetoed almost every single resolution aimed at stopping Israel killing Palestinians and preventing consistent human rights violation by Israel. I think the count is somewhere around 40 vetoed resolutions by now if not more.
So yeah i guess China compared to USA is very evil
Yes, been aware of the conflict for some time now, especially as we have ADF personnel there.
Nice potted history can be found here, for those interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict
And more up to date info here:
http://www.unmis.org/english/en-main.htm
Nice potted history can be found here, for those interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict
And more up to date info here:
http://www.unmis.org/english/en-main.htm
Thanks guys.. I wasn't sure of the awareness levels.. When I asked my dad if he knew anything about Darfur he replied.. "is it a band"..
The stuff going on there is nothing sure of fkn atrocious. It's gone from bad, to worse, to now catastrophic.. and it's worth nothing more than a teeny article in the age..
I'm starting a fundraising campaign to raise awareness about the issue.. few things in the pipeworks so we'll see what happens over the next few months..
check out http://www.moddigital.com.au/darfur/
This video made me want to DO something rather than stay resigned and cynical....
WinstonWolfe - I believe your "Get Over It" attitude probably speaks for the majority of Australian/worldwide population..
Funny how desensitised we get to things like this.. Oh Genocide? Yeah.. get over it..
I've been reading a lot of books and researching like crazy on the internet..
It's very easy to forget that these Darfur refugees are people too..
One story of a mother and her children who were captured by the militia, the mother was restrained whilst her children were locked inside a hut and burnt alive by the janjaweed.. she was forced to watch..
Get over it? Sure.
80% of the refugees are women and children because all the men captured are murdered.. women and girls are raped..
it's hardly a "Get Over It" situation..
If people actually gave a **** about people worse off than them, atrocities like this wouldn't be able to continue.. everyone turns a blind eye.
Disgusting really.
The stuff going on there is nothing sure of fkn atrocious. It's gone from bad, to worse, to now catastrophic.. and it's worth nothing more than a teeny article in the age..
I'm starting a fundraising campaign to raise awareness about the issue.. few things in the pipeworks so we'll see what happens over the next few months..
check out http://www.moddigital.com.au/darfur/
This video made me want to DO something rather than stay resigned and cynical....
WinstonWolfe - I believe your "Get Over It" attitude probably speaks for the majority of Australian/worldwide population..
Funny how desensitised we get to things like this.. Oh Genocide? Yeah.. get over it..
I've been reading a lot of books and researching like crazy on the internet..
It's very easy to forget that these Darfur refugees are people too..
One story of a mother and her children who were captured by the militia, the mother was restrained whilst her children were locked inside a hut and burnt alive by the janjaweed.. she was forced to watch..
Get over it? Sure.
80% of the refugees are women and children because all the men captured are murdered.. women and girls are raped..
it's hardly a "Get Over It" situation..
If people actually gave a **** about people worse off than them, atrocities like this wouldn't be able to continue.. everyone turns a blind eye.
Disgusting really.
This has been going on for at least 8 years Shonnie. Ask yourself why:
A: you didn't prioritize staying informed on global issues before this week.
B: what you were prioritizing instead.
C: why your father doesn't know about Darfur.
Raising a few thousand dollars is going to do what exactly? Besides, there's already a hundred odd well run aid organizations established by people older than you trying to do the same. WHy set up something else that deprives them of funds?
If you want to do something informed and potent, take your grief (hurry while it lasts) out on the Chinese govt, rather then post flake pr0n.
Just as many have been effective in protesting China's policy on Tibet, the most potent way to hit the Sudanese Govt is to have China stop selling them arms and buying their natural resources.
And how might a Gen Y do that? By encouraging your generation to stop buying things made in China- computers, plasmas, ipods, mobile phones, women's fashion, women's shoes, etc.
And while you are at it, those of a Leftist bent would tell you the USA, Germany, France, Russia, and Pakistan have been selling arms to developing nations for decades in exchange for their resources as well; while turning a blind eye to the genocide like atrocities of the govts they deal with. So stop buying anything made in those countries too.
Then you may as well tack Japan onto that if you care about whales.
And Canada if you care about baby seals.
And then you can tell Greenpeace, WWF, the Democrats, and the Greens how stupid they are for not wanting Australia to hurt the environment by farming rice and wheat. Why? because it is Australian wheat and rice that keeps a substantial % of developing nation poor alive.
Darfur is just as much about a drought driven lack of food as it is genocide.
And there will be a lot more Dafurs in the future if the world doesn't keep its food production up.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=6016
But let's not stop there. Then you need to convince the Sudanese that if they want to have enough food to go around, they should stop breeding, and fueling the staggering population growth rate of 3.1%pa. But then, how would you feel if someone came along and told you to stop having sex? And remember, these people are poor and uneducated on the whole, so don't have the beliefs or money to adopt a Western solution to overpopulation like the contraceptive pill.
But then it wouldn't be a long bow to draw to say that the thing that has got you so upset is due to a culture's liberal attitude towards sex. So maybe you should blackban Western values and fashion, that encourage a loose attitude towards sex as well.
If there hadn't been massive population growth in Sudan, the drought effects would not have been so devastating, and arguably would not have catalysed the Sudanese govt's solution of disposing of a few million extra mouths to feed.
taliban anyone?
Sudan is divided into 3 quadrants - christian, sunni, and animists (or tradition).
Animists are divided into two main groups - grossreal mentioned the Dinka - who attribute anything remotely good or bad to a God (like crops growing or dying, the rains coming etc) - and the Nuer who who believe that their surroundings are God but don't pray to it, but pray to their ancestors and their traditions. the Nuer don't even HAVE a word for God.
so you can imagine the infighting. Sunni's make up about 80-90% of the total population, christians about 10-15% and animists about 5% - and the animists are the ones targeted for the slave trade, militia recruits etc.
the christian and animist land is in southern sudan which gets most of the rainfall, and northern sudan which is mainly islamic get barely anything. so 60% of islamic people are starving and deciding that because the government is islamic, then they have a right to walk on in and kill anyone with food or crop bearing land. government recognises sharia law, but views an islamic person killing a christian person for food as acceptable, so it just keeps happening.
and there is NOTHING anyone can do about it until
1) sudan becomes a non-islamic democracy.
2) sudan becomes an uninhabitable nuclear wasteland
3) someone makes it rain in the north of sudan.
period.
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You know why? Because, this clip from the brilliant Canadian show "The Newsroom" is a sadly accurate reflection of how our news is generated.
Shonnie the thing is that the whole Africa is like that. There are a lot of things happening there, you just don't hear it in the news because nobody is interested in it. The tribes that used to fight each have been put into same country and now they are supposed to love each other? Never gonna happen.
Also it's too overcrowded.
Nothing is going to change until they kill each other completely, or the population will become so scarce that to find an enemy will become too much effort.
No amount of money or peace keepers is going to change anything, so might as well just wait until there is only one side left and then help them restore normal life.
Also it's too overcrowded.
Nothing is going to change until they kill each other completely, or the population will become so scarce that to find an enemy will become too much effort.
No amount of money or peace keepers is going to change anything, so might as well just wait until there is only one side left and then help them restore normal life.
