Equity Finance Mortgage
- Thread starter Qlds007
- Start date
hi all
interesting the last coupe of posts.
number 1 I don't need to relearn on a product
and simon I think you for one do need to understand this product as there are alot of them on there way and you may get clients asking what it is and how it works.
I notice with interest richards post.
Probably also better if GR improves his diction(I don't need to improve my dictation but what I do tell people is to read the fine print understanding a language also includes understanding what has been written and typed but more importantly what your signing up for), spelling punctuation and general English if he wishes to correspond with Christopher Joye from Rismark. I have no interest in writing or talking to christopher joye.
he did not put up this post
but I am interested that we are at page 11 of a post and no answers from the poster with regards to this product,
except this post
where it is asking that I increase my english levels,
well if the problem that no answers have been given is because the poster also has a problem with english
and thats why the answers can't be give
I respect if thats the case
maybe do the answers as a mp3 so we can hear the answers
because it seem there is a deafening silence with regards to this post.
Only met him the once and he won't suffer fools easily and this is the most important and for me the most telling part of this whole post
I believe that mr joye does not and won't suffer at all
he won't suffer fools but there will be alot of fools that will suffer.
maybe the questions are a bit difficult to answer or maybe they can't be understood what the question are
so may be mark, simon, les, andy,
or ruroshin read the question and rearrange if need be and ask the question.
simon I did not say nor did I think that the forum launched the product
but on the first page it did say that somersoft is one of the first to hear of this product well maybe we will be the first to hear the answers.
and why should I need to ask the lender directly, you ask the promotor,
with any product you ask the person who is pushing a product what it is, who is behind it and whats your warranty if the company goes broke
and if you think that is an unreasonable request well sorry thats what they call consumer law.
simon as you have quite easily put.
This must be quite a limitation to your business, developments and offshore fund management.
I ask you one very simple question
you understand the above why??
because I have told you
I don't hide behind smoke screens
do you or anybody going into this loan, type of loan or this lender have the same clarity of the lender or the product.
and the answer to this question is no
11 pages of no.
and my question is why.
simon you asked
Once again I am after some clarification Lawrence
well simon
maybe we need to be asking.
Once again I am after some clarification poster
and not asking for clarification with regards to postees but asking clarification about the post.
remember if you shoot the messanger does not kill the message.
maybe simon start to have a look at the message.
and last but not least.
simon
you posted this
I know I am not. I don't have any opinions either except a feeling that I wouldn't like to write this product.
well you may not write this product thats your call
but there are people on these boards that will not ask you to get them a loan but they are looking for information to make an informed choice, before they do get a loan
if people post or don't post thats there call
but the people that are reading any board want to know.
if you wouldn't write this product.
why
because by saying you wouldn't write this product for me is an opinion, which you have said you don't have an opinion on it.
so that begs the question
I am after some clarification simon
have you got an opinion or not
interesting the last coupe of posts.
number 1 I don't need to relearn on a product
and simon I think you for one do need to understand this product as there are alot of them on there way and you may get clients asking what it is and how it works.
I notice with interest richards post.
Probably also better if GR improves his diction(I don't need to improve my dictation but what I do tell people is to read the fine print understanding a language also includes understanding what has been written and typed but more importantly what your signing up for), spelling punctuation and general English if he wishes to correspond with Christopher Joye from Rismark. I have no interest in writing or talking to christopher joye.
he did not put up this post
but I am interested that we are at page 11 of a post and no answers from the poster with regards to this product,
except this post
where it is asking that I increase my english levels,
well if the problem that no answers have been given is because the poster also has a problem with english
and thats why the answers can't be give
I respect if thats the case
maybe do the answers as a mp3 so we can hear the answers
because it seem there is a deafening silence with regards to this post.
Only met him the once and he won't suffer fools easily and this is the most important and for me the most telling part of this whole post
I believe that mr joye does not and won't suffer at all
he won't suffer fools but there will be alot of fools that will suffer.
maybe the questions are a bit difficult to answer or maybe they can't be understood what the question are
so may be mark, simon, les, andy,
or ruroshin read the question and rearrange if need be and ask the question.
simon I did not say nor did I think that the forum launched the product
but on the first page it did say that somersoft is one of the first to hear of this product well maybe we will be the first to hear the answers.
and why should I need to ask the lender directly, you ask the promotor,
with any product you ask the person who is pushing a product what it is, who is behind it and whats your warranty if the company goes broke
and if you think that is an unreasonable request well sorry thats what they call consumer law.
simon as you have quite easily put.
This must be quite a limitation to your business, developments and offshore fund management.
I ask you one very simple question
you understand the above why??
because I have told you
I don't hide behind smoke screens
do you or anybody going into this loan, type of loan or this lender have the same clarity of the lender or the product.
and the answer to this question is no
11 pages of no.
and my question is why.
simon you asked
Once again I am after some clarification Lawrence
well simon
maybe we need to be asking.
Once again I am after some clarification poster
and not asking for clarification with regards to postees but asking clarification about the post.
remember if you shoot the messanger does not kill the message.
maybe simon start to have a look at the message.
and last but not least.
simon
you posted this
I know I am not. I don't have any opinions either except a feeling that I wouldn't like to write this product.
well you may not write this product thats your call
but there are people on these boards that will not ask you to get them a loan but they are looking for information to make an informed choice, before they do get a loan
if people post or don't post thats there call
but the people that are reading any board want to know.
if you wouldn't write this product.
why
because by saying you wouldn't write this product for me is an opinion, which you have said you don't have an opinion on it.
so that begs the question
I am after some clarification simon
have you got an opinion or not
I find if I just hit the down arrow on the browser on a line to line basis I can decipher GRs post a bit better.
Now that being said, I think what GR is on about, which we probably all know is that Richard (Qlds007) started the post originally.
However when the tougher questions have come out for some clarification the Richard hasn't come out to answer them - which I believe to be the view of many of the forum...apparently, and when Richard has now posted, it seems that he still wont answer the questions and now says call the guy from Rismark.
However, Richard will answer questions on how to do xyz with your finance and I’m happy to help you arrange this… on other threads.
Richard, you are the guy who posted this exact same thread on propertyinvesting.com as well as here, and who knows where else. In my view you’re just pushing your own interests and at the same time, youre pushing a product which you must not know much about which is even more concerning, and trying to push the attention back to GR’s typing or saying how flat out you are, but you seem to have time to make grabs for other business when it isn’t so hard..
In fact, perhaps we should contact the guy at Rismark and tell him about the thread and how you might be needing a review to be licenced to sell his product since you don’t seem to know the answers. I’d imagine that hed be a bit concerned, and if he wasn’t then he should be.
Well, I cant find his email but fortunately on the website
http://www.rismark.com.au/contact/index.html the media enquiries contact is there
Tim Allerton
Managing Director
City Public Relations
T: +61 (0)2 9267 4511
E: [email protected]
End of the day, what is the issue – typing or probity… this thread has just gone stupidly out of control.
Finally, Richard I just don’t know why you don’t grow some and answer the questions that the forum have posed, especially since you started the whole thing to begin with. It’s a fascinating product but I feel your lack of clarity and response only to say call the guy at Rismark who designed it makes me begin to view you as… competently incompetent.
Cheerio
Saint.
Now that being said, I think what GR is on about, which we probably all know is that Richard (Qlds007) started the post originally.
However when the tougher questions have come out for some clarification the Richard hasn't come out to answer them - which I believe to be the view of many of the forum...apparently, and when Richard has now posted, it seems that he still wont answer the questions and now says call the guy from Rismark.
However, Richard will answer questions on how to do xyz with your finance and I’m happy to help you arrange this… on other threads.
Richard, you are the guy who posted this exact same thread on propertyinvesting.com as well as here, and who knows where else. In my view you’re just pushing your own interests and at the same time, youre pushing a product which you must not know much about which is even more concerning, and trying to push the attention back to GR’s typing or saying how flat out you are, but you seem to have time to make grabs for other business when it isn’t so hard..
In fact, perhaps we should contact the guy at Rismark and tell him about the thread and how you might be needing a review to be licenced to sell his product since you don’t seem to know the answers. I’d imagine that hed be a bit concerned, and if he wasn’t then he should be.
Well, I cant find his email but fortunately on the website
http://www.rismark.com.au/contact/index.html the media enquiries contact is there
Tim Allerton
Managing Director
City Public Relations
T: +61 (0)2 9267 4511
E: [email protected]
End of the day, what is the issue – typing or probity… this thread has just gone stupidly out of control.
Finally, Richard I just don’t know why you don’t grow some and answer the questions that the forum have posed, especially since you started the whole thing to begin with. It’s a fascinating product but I feel your lack of clarity and response only to say call the guy at Rismark who designed it makes me begin to view you as… competently incompetent.
Cheerio
Saint.
Hi Richard,
I just had a great idea - HOW ABOUT YOU ANSWER THE QUESTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN POSTED IN THIS THREAD.
Mark
Hiya
Dunno if this would help ? Probably already been linked, but here it is again
http://www.efm.info/media/1235/efm070307.pdf
ta
rolf
Dunno if this would help ? Probably already been linked, but here it is again
http://www.efm.info/media/1235/efm070307.pdf
ta
rolf
hi simon
thanks I will post in point fashion.
1. is this equity loan supplied by a bank(not the main 80% loan).
2. is it supplied by a fund or private institution.
3. was the purchaser of the loan given a disclosure as to the funds profit out of the deal in year by year increments ( as this is a jv both sides what to know porfit margins)
4. was a commission for the deal supplied to the agent and what is that.
5. was trailers told to the loanee and what are the trailers.
6. if this is private funding or super funding what was told to the loanee with regard to what happens if the super or private liquidate and whats there position with regard to a liquidator.
7.was it disclosed to the loanee that the min renovation was 20k and what recoarse is in place if ? the loanee disagrees with the lenders view. is there a external complaint company as arbitrator.
8.is this loan covered by the consumer credit code.
9.what is the major lenders view adelaide bank in this case if the 20% defaults and a liquidator asks for there percentage of the property and what safe gaurds have been put in place by both lenders to safe guard the borrower.
10.and the last one is does the broker or agent have any financial interest in the fund in any context.
11 what are the total costs that the 20% funder gets including funds expressed or not expressed from the 80% lender.
I cant make it much more point fashion.
and now lets instead of asking if I can spell.
see how long it takes to answer 11 questions.
the first one has been answered in this and another post but it does not say who its is and if its a group who is the group made up of.
so as this post in point fashion I would like the answers in point fashion.
and its not hard to answer.
thanks I will post in point fashion.
1. is this equity loan supplied by a bank(not the main 80% loan).
2. is it supplied by a fund or private institution.
3. was the purchaser of the loan given a disclosure as to the funds profit out of the deal in year by year increments ( as this is a jv both sides what to know porfit margins)
4. was a commission for the deal supplied to the agent and what is that.
5. was trailers told to the loanee and what are the trailers.
6. if this is private funding or super funding what was told to the loanee with regard to what happens if the super or private liquidate and whats there position with regard to a liquidator.
7.was it disclosed to the loanee that the min renovation was 20k and what recoarse is in place if ? the loanee disagrees with the lenders view. is there a external complaint company as arbitrator.
8.is this loan covered by the consumer credit code.
9.what is the major lenders view adelaide bank in this case if the 20% defaults and a liquidator asks for there percentage of the property and what safe gaurds have been put in place by both lenders to safe guard the borrower.
10.and the last one is does the broker or agent have any financial interest in the fund in any context.
11 what are the total costs that the 20% funder gets including funds expressed or not expressed from the 80% lender.
I cant make it much more point fashion.
and now lets instead of asking if I can spell.
see how long it takes to answer 11 questions.
the first one has been answered in this and another post but it does not say who its is and if its a group who is the group made up of.
so as this post in point fashion I would like the answers in point fashion.
and its not hard to answer.
Hi Lawrence,
Answers to:
1. 20% is supplied by Rismark.
2. From this site: http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/news/news.cfm?doc_id=4889
"A venture between Rismark International and Macquarie Bank aims to raise $1 billion from superannuation funds to create a pool of money to invest in equity finance mortgages....
...While the fund's raising is in the hands of superannuation funds and the consultants, who act as gate keepers for the industry, the idea has captured public attention."
Looks like Rismark is working in conjunction with Macquarie to get money from super funds in order to on-lend to suck... vendors.
Mark
P.S. I think the rest of the questions are excellent. Let's see if Richard has the cobblers to finally stand behind the product he chose to spam on this forum. Although his tendency to only pipe up and answer questions when it gives him a chance to sell himself and his business doesn't leave me feeling very confident that he will.
As evidenced, he's quick to have a dig at Lawrence's posts but my enquiries - which I'm sure he will agree are usually easier to understand - conveniently went unanswered as well.
Mark
Answers to:
1. 20% is supplied by Rismark.
2. From this site: http://w4.stern.nyu.edu/news/news.cfm?doc_id=4889
"A venture between Rismark International and Macquarie Bank aims to raise $1 billion from superannuation funds to create a pool of money to invest in equity finance mortgages....
...While the fund's raising is in the hands of superannuation funds and the consultants, who act as gate keepers for the industry, the idea has captured public attention."
Looks like Rismark is working in conjunction with Macquarie to get money from super funds in order to on-lend to suck... vendors.
Mark
P.S. I think the rest of the questions are excellent. Let's see if Richard has the cobblers to finally stand behind the product he chose to spam on this forum. Although his tendency to only pipe up and answer questions when it gives him a chance to sell himself and his business doesn't leave me feeling very confident that he will.
As evidenced, he's quick to have a dig at Lawrence's posts but my enquiries - which I'm sure he will agree are usually easier to understand - conveniently went unanswered as well.
Mark
Lawrence,
These are not the same questions that I asked you to rewrite in dot point.
I cannot answer any of these for you. Sorry. I don't know anything more about this product than you do.
Hi,
In the context of the discussions in this thread (which I have not read much of) ...just wondering if Flash1 and partner, who I presume are the above-mentioned Somersoft members, have a 'pre-approval' for this loan structure or have already bought and/or settled on a property with this loan fully approved.
GSJ
After talking to some lenders today, I can see a scenario where this type of loan may be suitable, but it all depends on the exit strategy.
A couple is purchasing a home for $100k, and the wife is due to have a baby in the near future. For the moment serviceability is fine, but in a few months she'll be on maternity leave for 6 months so money will get very tight whilst she's not working.
They take a 75k loan with a 20k equity lend. They put down 5k themselves. No LMI is payable. This is more affordable for the next six months whilst they only have a single income.
They refinance within a year. The property has gone up 10k. To repay the equity component they will have to pay the initial 20k, plus 40% of the growth, which is 4k.
They now owe 99k on a property worth 110k. They would have to pay mortgage insurance on the refinance, but now they're back on two incomes the loan is more manageable.
I think there'll be a lot of interest in this product for all the wrong reasons. Realistically examples like this are few and far between and it's certainly not a product I'd ever suggest for investors. Overall I'm against it, but I can see some use for it.
A couple is purchasing a home for $100k, and the wife is due to have a baby in the near future. For the moment serviceability is fine, but in a few months she'll be on maternity leave for 6 months so money will get very tight whilst she's not working.
They take a 75k loan with a 20k equity lend. They put down 5k themselves. No LMI is payable. This is more affordable for the next six months whilst they only have a single income.
They refinance within a year. The property has gone up 10k. To repay the equity component they will have to pay the initial 20k, plus 40% of the growth, which is 4k.
They now owe 99k on a property worth 110k. They would have to pay mortgage insurance on the refinance, but now they're back on two incomes the loan is more manageable.
I think there'll be a lot of interest in this product for all the wrong reasons. Realistically examples like this are few and far between and it's certainly not a product I'd ever suggest for investors. Overall I'm against it, but I can see some use for it.
PT Bear, your example is one of the few situations where this loan would be beneficial while minimising the issues such as what happens to improvements that have been discussed on this thread. Basically, the best way to use this loan would be to treat it like a high-interest, no-doc loan and aim to refinance as soon as possible.
Unfortunately, people being what they are, they will just focus on the '20% of your loan is interest free' part and end up buying a lot more house than they can afford, smugly thinking that they got 20% of it for 'free'. Years down the track there will be plenty of work for lawyers to resolve disputes.
In the same way, most people just look at those '2 year interest free' or whatever offers and don't realise what it actually means. This is a bigger version of that, with bigger potential problems.
Alex
Unfortunately, people being what they are, they will just focus on the '20% of your loan is interest free' part and end up buying a lot more house than they can afford, smugly thinking that they got 20% of it for 'free'. Years down the track there will be plenty of work for lawyers to resolve disputes.
In the same way, most people just look at those '2 year interest free' or whatever offers and don't realise what it actually means. This is a bigger version of that, with bigger potential problems.
Alex
Alex I completely agree with you. This loan will be abused. Even in the example I gave, chances are people would be able to find a better way around their problems.
This country doesn't have an affordability crisis, it has a debt crisis and lending practices like this will only make it worse.
This country doesn't have an affordability crisis, it has a debt crisis and lending practices like this will only make it worse.
Hi Peter,
I like your example. But as it suggests, this loan has a very narrow band of 'workability' (is that even a word?).
Mark
I like your example. But as it suggests, this loan has a very narrow band of 'workability' (is that even a word?).
Mark
hi all
thanks for the pdf rolf
I had a good read and it makes for some interesting question in itself.
1. if you renovate and you are approved to do so
and the price of the house falls below the original value then the renovations value does not count for the pool of money so you lose the reno costs and the loss in value.
2. the product does come under the consumer credit code.
3.pt_bear the lmi is the same as usual, anything over 85% does carry the lmi so if the borrower is borrowing 95% (5% deposit) then they pay lmi on the amount over the 85% or 10%
its the same as if the lender was a mezz lender so you need to add lmi to your potential buyer or user.
4.there is no fees now but it says they can be introduced at any time and they will give you 30 days notice.
5. and hand in glove with this, if you refinance with another lender and the value of your property has dropped
you get no reduction (or what they call depreciation) in there cut.
6.the loan is not thru rismark or macq but is backed by perpetual and sold thru adelaide bank and rismark manage it.
now this is my last question
a super fund perpetual
is the funder
a bank adelaide
is the seller via a group of vendors
( and just a side line it did say at the end of the pdf if you have any question ask the introducer to the product and that made me laugh).
a company
that is made up of unknown entities, some of which are rismark,macquarie bank,rpdata,and some super funds which we have not identified as yet
is the manager of this loan ( or as best I can identify)
and they are all not making any thing
they give the punter a 20% mezz loan at no interest rate for 25 years as per the pdf.
sound funny??
and just one of them
macq bank
would require for 10 dollars a minimum 81 dollars in half the loan term
13 years.
they (macq) would require a 6.5% annual increase to cover there money ( the pdf says 8% so not far off)
sounds ok if you look at it this way 6.5% per annum.
but oh sorry I forgot
you are not paying anything
the $81.00 is cash
ie they gave you 10 cash and they want 81 in cash not in projected incomes or profits
cause macq can't spend or use projected profits.
someone for me is either pressing the wrong buttons on there calculators or can't see a serviceability issue here.
remember one other very interesting difference between macq bank and most other banks
it only lends out other people money and it skims profit or management fees( and do a very good job at it as well).
if no body gives you a dollar where is the management fees and where is there money.
I would be very supprised if macq bank is not 51% share holders of the management group
and the setup is not very similar to a pyrimid scheme and lots of layers and these guys at the top next door to mr joye.
just for me how does anyone think they get there money or think to stay afloat.
they want 25 year loans putting mezz funding out for 0 interest, lmi for safety( and read the pdf it say lmi insures them if you fall over, is it the same if they fall over
before you say yes the answer is no)
we love stuff for free but come on guys, we use calculators all the time and mine says 1mil out into the market
@10% interest per year 100k(given to investor)
10 years later
1 mil out in the market
debt to a lender that has been giving you the 1mil is 100k (pyrimid system take from one to give to another)
for 10 years is 1 mil debt.
and this is not rocket science
its simple if you give out 1 mil and run up 1 mil debt, you are insolvent
your assett is the same as your debt
and you can't get anymore money to pay your original funders and it falls in a heap.
they call this punzers some call them pyrimids they are all verysimilar and very simple.
you put out 1 mil
you give the investor 100k
once the item is in the market
you have to introduce fees to cover the 100k to stay afloat.
nobody can put 1mil into a market and wait 25 years
never mind 150 mil .
land banking yes but thats at low lvrs we are talking 85% lvrs and above.
the reason for lmi is for the risks involved in the higher lvr
for high lvrs the risk curve goes like a theme park ride straight up and the higher the risk the higher the cost of money.
unless the super fund involved have a very different way of looking at risk
or the other side of the coin is they don't know,
hence my hih inference
remember a very similar company that went into the market.
I will jog your memory
they gave out money at 16% interest mezz funding
and took in super funds from retirees
skimmed off huge fees and gave out huge commissions for introducers
and when the fees out stripped any income they started to borrow from the incomming money to pay the out going cost of the fees.
sound very familiar.
they were getting in 16% as an income on the money out in the market.
with this there is no incomming money.
there name
I'll give you the last part and you will be able to work out the rest.
point.
and I will give you a clue perth is west of sydney.
and if you can't see any similarities maybe it just me.
thanks for the pdf rolf
I had a good read and it makes for some interesting question in itself.
1. if you renovate and you are approved to do so
and the price of the house falls below the original value then the renovations value does not count for the pool of money so you lose the reno costs and the loss in value.
2. the product does come under the consumer credit code.
3.pt_bear the lmi is the same as usual, anything over 85% does carry the lmi so if the borrower is borrowing 95% (5% deposit) then they pay lmi on the amount over the 85% or 10%
its the same as if the lender was a mezz lender so you need to add lmi to your potential buyer or user.
4.there is no fees now but it says they can be introduced at any time and they will give you 30 days notice.
5. and hand in glove with this, if you refinance with another lender and the value of your property has dropped
you get no reduction (or what they call depreciation) in there cut.
6.the loan is not thru rismark or macq but is backed by perpetual and sold thru adelaide bank and rismark manage it.
now this is my last question
a super fund perpetual
is the funder
a bank adelaide
is the seller via a group of vendors
( and just a side line it did say at the end of the pdf if you have any question ask the introducer to the product and that made me laugh).
a company
that is made up of unknown entities, some of which are rismark,macquarie bank,rpdata,and some super funds which we have not identified as yet
is the manager of this loan ( or as best I can identify)
and they are all not making any thing
they give the punter a 20% mezz loan at no interest rate for 25 years as per the pdf.
sound funny??
and just one of them
macq bank
would require for 10 dollars a minimum 81 dollars in half the loan term
13 years.
they (macq) would require a 6.5% annual increase to cover there money ( the pdf says 8% so not far off)
sounds ok if you look at it this way 6.5% per annum.
but oh sorry I forgot
you are not paying anything
the $81.00 is cash
ie they gave you 10 cash and they want 81 in cash not in projected incomes or profits
cause macq can't spend or use projected profits.
someone for me is either pressing the wrong buttons on there calculators or can't see a serviceability issue here.
remember one other very interesting difference between macq bank and most other banks
it only lends out other people money and it skims profit or management fees( and do a very good job at it as well).
if no body gives you a dollar where is the management fees and where is there money.
I would be very supprised if macq bank is not 51% share holders of the management group
and the setup is not very similar to a pyrimid scheme and lots of layers and these guys at the top next door to mr joye.
just for me how does anyone think they get there money or think to stay afloat.
they want 25 year loans putting mezz funding out for 0 interest, lmi for safety( and read the pdf it say lmi insures them if you fall over, is it the same if they fall over
before you say yes the answer is no)
we love stuff for free but come on guys, we use calculators all the time and mine says 1mil out into the market
@10% interest per year 100k(given to investor)
10 years later
1 mil out in the market
debt to a lender that has been giving you the 1mil is 100k (pyrimid system take from one to give to another)
for 10 years is 1 mil debt.
and this is not rocket science
its simple if you give out 1 mil and run up 1 mil debt, you are insolvent
your assett is the same as your debt
and you can't get anymore money to pay your original funders and it falls in a heap.
they call this punzers some call them pyrimids they are all verysimilar and very simple.
you put out 1 mil
you give the investor 100k
once the item is in the market
you have to introduce fees to cover the 100k to stay afloat.
nobody can put 1mil into a market and wait 25 years
never mind 150 mil .
land banking yes but thats at low lvrs we are talking 85% lvrs and above.
the reason for lmi is for the risks involved in the higher lvr
for high lvrs the risk curve goes like a theme park ride straight up and the higher the risk the higher the cost of money.
unless the super fund involved have a very different way of looking at risk
or the other side of the coin is they don't know,
hence my hih inference
remember a very similar company that went into the market.
I will jog your memory
they gave out money at 16% interest mezz funding
and took in super funds from retirees
skimmed off huge fees and gave out huge commissions for introducers
and when the fees out stripped any income they started to borrow from the incomming money to pay the out going cost of the fees.
sound very familiar.
they were getting in 16% as an income on the money out in the market.
with this there is no incomming money.
there name
I'll give you the last part and you will be able to work out the rest.
point.
and I will give you a clue perth is west of sydney.
and if you can't see any similarities maybe it just me.
Hiya Gross et al
It took me 30 seconds to find that PDF.............................while I do understand your concerns to protect the "public", your core questions might (?) best be answered by the provider of the product, not a retailer.
If you have a beef with a particular make and model of car, you can park your body in front of the dealership, until you get an answer, or you can do what many would That is take it one level further up in the food chain, and ask the manufacturer.
I have no financial or friendship association with Richard Taylor, in fact, most would say he is "competition".
I respect the work he has done and the information he has provided on this forum.
In addition I recognise your contribution, and see in recent times you have been questioned, for various reasons.
People, I ask, that we bury the hatchet for all of 7 days.
The negative vibe of this and associated threads is resonating through the forum.................and I feel its not a good thing.
We are a helpful lot, so lets continue that please..................
ta
rolf
It took me 30 seconds to find that PDF.............................while I do understand your concerns to protect the "public", your core questions might (?) best be answered by the provider of the product, not a retailer.
If you have a beef with a particular make and model of car, you can park your body in front of the dealership, until you get an answer, or you can do what many would That is take it one level further up in the food chain, and ask the manufacturer.
I have no financial or friendship association with Richard Taylor, in fact, most would say he is "competition".
I respect the work he has done and the information he has provided on this forum.
In addition I recognise your contribution, and see in recent times you have been questioned, for various reasons.
People, I ask, that we bury the hatchet for all of 7 days.
The negative vibe of this and associated threads is resonating through the forum.................and I feel its not a good thing.
We are a helpful lot, so lets continue that please..................
ta
rolf
hi saint
I don't think this post is out of control.
I do think that richard only knows half of the answers.
at best.
and I think everyone should start to question not only the product but whats behind the product
at best they make a heap of cash if you sell or refinance in 5 years and if you stick out to 10
I can't see them around and then a liquidator is going to be asking for his money and thats going to be an all mighty up roar that's my crystal ball.
there is two very different sides to this product
one is the product and the other is life of the product and they are two very very different things.
and everyone should be asking questions.
for 1 when I say everyone, it maybe your super thats tied up in this.
and thats another pandoras box
I don't think this post is out of control.
I do think that richard only knows half of the answers.
at best.
and I think everyone should start to question not only the product but whats behind the product
at best they make a heap of cash if you sell or refinance in 5 years and if you stick out to 10
I can't see them around and then a liquidator is going to be asking for his money and thats going to be an all mighty up roar that's my crystal ball.
there is two very different sides to this product
one is the product and the other is life of the product and they are two very very different things.
and everyone should be asking questions.
for 1 when I say everyone, it maybe your super thats tied up in this.
and thats another pandoras box
hi rolf
I did put in one post that you don't shoot the messanger but try to understand the message.
I have not and I have no interest in attacking richard and If you read my post I have not done this
nor should we take this up with the (as you put it the manufacturer).
a post has been put up and I would like some answers on this product and who's behind it.
I have no beef with the supplier of the product as at this stage I have not got a clue who they are.
we know who the mangement is etc
I now most of the players but not all.
and I would be interested in who all the players are.
I haven't seen the other posts unless they were on this product but I have only come passed and not read all the posts.
I for one am for more post and if people have a view.
post it
I like a debate its the only way to get raw information.
I won't dwell on the past
but if we did have this type of debate
on say westpoint or hih and someone on here did get to save out of there lost super, say 400k that would be great
(not saying at this stage that thats case) but it would be great.
I do and have always said that cat calling, mud slinging or personal attack does nothing for your view or anyone elses
and thats why I don't attack the pigeon .
but the message is a very different thing and I would say for others to start asking question
maybe there are alot of question that have yet to be asked on this product
and maybe by posting it
richard has inadvertantly helped someone.
my .002
I did put in one post that you don't shoot the messanger but try to understand the message.
I have not and I have no interest in attacking richard and If you read my post I have not done this
nor should we take this up with the (as you put it the manufacturer).
a post has been put up and I would like some answers on this product and who's behind it.
I have no beef with the supplier of the product as at this stage I have not got a clue who they are.
we know who the mangement is etc
I now most of the players but not all.
and I would be interested in who all the players are.
I haven't seen the other posts unless they were on this product but I have only come passed and not read all the posts.
I for one am for more post and if people have a view.
post it
I like a debate its the only way to get raw information.
I won't dwell on the past
but if we did have this type of debate
on say westpoint or hih and someone on here did get to save out of there lost super, say 400k that would be great
(not saying at this stage that thats case) but it would be great.
I do and have always said that cat calling, mud slinging or personal attack does nothing for your view or anyone elses
and thats why I don't attack the pigeon .
but the message is a very different thing and I would say for others to start asking question
maybe there are alot of question that have yet to be asked on this product
and maybe by posting it
richard has inadvertantly helped someone.
my .002
I agree with Lawrence. There's nothing wrong in my view with asking Richard - who spammed this product on the forum - to answer some questions. It's not like he is an innocent bystander who was set upon as a scapegoat. He chose to post the information, I'm just wondering why he refuses to even address people's questions?
If he doesn't know the answers to the questions being asked - then my next question would be 'Why is he selling this product?'.
If he believes this is a good product, then why wont he explain in good faith why he thinks it is? I don't believe that letting an issue die because it's causing some negative vibes is a good reason to stop discussing this product. There have been no personal attacks, it hasn't turned into a cat fight. People would just like some answers. That's not an unreasonable request.
If Richard doesn't want to give those answers, then let him at least say that.
Mark
If he doesn't know the answers to the questions being asked - then my next question would be 'Why is he selling this product?'.
If he believes this is a good product, then why wont he explain in good faith why he thinks it is? I don't believe that letting an issue die because it's causing some negative vibes is a good reason to stop discussing this product. There have been no personal attacks, it hasn't turned into a cat fight. People would just like some answers. That's not an unreasonable request.
If Richard doesn't want to give those answers, then let him at least say that.
Mark
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