Finance

W

WebBoard

Guest
From: Mike .


How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: John (Brisbane)
Date: 31 Jan 2001
Time: 12:15:50

There are many organisations that are charging upto $2000 to set up an advanced mortgage reduction system for your invesment properties. Indeed, I have come across one that will even arrange the purchase of a suitable property for you!

Anyway, I'm a 'do it yourselfer'. It's forums like this one where you can share so called 'secrets' for nothing. Information should be free to all who desire it! I have researched these Mortgage Reduction Schemes and surmise that the best of them works a little like this:

First you seek to refinance your home on a line of credit loan which is split into 2 separate loans for reporting purposes. One has a lower limit, and will be used for your personal debt (i.e. home mortgage) and personal expenses. The second split has a much higher limit for tax deductible expenses such as IP rates, IP insurance, providing deposits on IPs, some shares maybe, etc.

You then need to change your personal spending habits so that you get into the habit of purchasing most personal items on your credit card. (but don’t get carried away) You do this so that you leave your salary sitting in your loan account untouched for 27-days.

You then obtain an interest only loan for the IP (including stamp duty & conveyancing), with the deposit coming from the ‘expenses LOC.’ Only deductible investment expenses are drawn down from the ‘expenses LOC’, and they are not to be repaid for as long as the credit limit will allow.

Both salary and rental income are deposited directly into the ‘personal LOC’ as regularly as possible. An automatic end-of-month transfer then withdraws from this account the interest payment required on the ‘expenses LOC’, ‘IP I/O loan’, and the credit card used for living expenditure.

The net effect is that the ‘IP I/O loan’ never gets paid off. The ‘expenses LOC’ actually gets larger. The ‘personal LOC’ reduces very quickly, firstly as it has received additional payments equal to the value of the expenses added to the ‘expenses LOC’. Secondly, as the daily balance is momentarily deflated until the end of the month when interest payments are due, you are paying non-deductible interest on a lower outstanding balance.

The taxation benefits are that you can now claim a deduction for the interest paid on the investment expenses as well as the initial deposit. When you are getting near to your credit limit on your ‘expenses LOC’ you must go for a higher re-valuation on your home to enable the limit to be pushed out further yet. If you are able to get a higher re-valuation on the investment property then redraw this equity and transfer it to the ‘expenses LOC’. This system also avoids cross-collateralisation of loans, therefore minimising your risk.

NOW, all my learned friends, have I missed anything? A some minor details a little astray? Can this system be further refined?

Come on everyone, let's give this one a good working over.

Thanxs to all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Festina Lente

Reply: 1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Festina Lente
Date: 31 Jan 2001
Time: 20:19:49

You are 100% right. As a matter of fact, I exchanged on an IP today doing EXACTLY what you have described. The only point I would add is that I usually "pay off" the smaller line of credit sub-account (fixed interest) by saving excess $$ in my main transaction mortgage account then transferring over to the investment sub-account when I have enough and am ready to buy another IP.

I go for a 90 LVR without using my own home for the investment, with deposit and costs and coming from the investment sub-account. As soon as I have saved enough to pay this off, I buy another IP. The added bonus is that I have at least 10% equity in each property.

There is nothing with negative gearing.

FL
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Owen

Reply: 1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Owen
Date: 31 Jan 2001
Time: 14:29:15

As long as you are paying the minimum amount of principal and interest required for the Investment LOC there is nothing wrong with doing this.

If you are already doing this I can't see how the balance on the Investment LOC is getting bigger?

The only way this could happen is if you are paying the interest from it's own loan in order to maximise the payments on your Personal LOC. For example, the Investment LOC is paying the interest owing on the Investment LOC account leaving all your money in your Personal LOC. This is called "interest capitalisation" and while legal, means you are going backwards fast. The other flaw in this is the ATO will not allow the interest on the Investment interest payments to be claimed. This creates an accounting nightmare and means the ATO will be looking at you very carefully.

As I said in the beginning, an I/O Loan for the IP with the deposit and costs in an Investment LOC is a good idea. Ensure that all minimum P&I payments for the Investment LOC are met along the I/O loan costs and maximise the payment on any personal debt. Once the personal debt is gone (Yay!!!) you will have lots of money to play with. This can then all be directed to the Investment LOC and this can be paid off really quickly.

That's how I do it and as I get better at negotiating each IP the amount I am putting in is getting less and the Investment LOC is being paid off quicker and quicker.

... and I wouldn't be paying $2000 for that advice. Any decent Mortgage Broker, banker or friendly forum poster can tell you how to do it. There's a load of "Paid My House Off In 2 Weeks" and "Debt Reduction" books available for under $20 too.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ray

Reply: 1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Ray
Date: 31 Jan 2001
Time: 21:11:53

You people seem very learned. I am looking at buying my first investment property and I currently have a line of credit type loan. I am looking at having the property where I live re-valued so that I may use the built up equity to purchase my first investment property. Is this a good way to go? Any advice would be welcomed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sim

Reply: 1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Sim'
Date: 31 Jan 2001
Time: 21:17:23

No rocket science here...

You could quite easily set all of this up yourself with the help a decent mortgage broker... for FREE !!

Why pay $2000 ?

Sim'
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mia

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Mia
Date: 31 Jan 2001
Time: 17:25:17

John,

Interesting Post. I was in QLD at Xmas time and was given the sales pitch by someone representing one of these organisations that you mentioned. Same idea, with a couple of 1000's to set it up and a higher interest rate than what I could get elsewhere. I was skeptical about the cost of such a set up, but was advised by the 'salesperson' that normal people could not do this because the banks wouldn't play the game. Obviously i know that someone saying that it can't be done, surely means that it CAN be done for much less $$$. Interested to know if you have set this up yourself.

Mia
 
Last edited by a moderator:
John

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: John
Date: 01 Feb 2001
Time: 09:03:36

Mia,

I am in the process of setting up this loan structure right now. Should up & runnin in about 2 weeks. I just thought I would check with the good folks at this forum if it could be further tweaked (sounds unlikely).

The loan is through the ANZ in Melbourne (I live in Brisbane and my broker is in Sydney, (now there's a story)). You could obtain this structure from any major bank. Just watch out for their monthly fees, and ensure that they offer the automatic sweep function to pay out interest owing on the other accounts.

I have got the standard ANZ variable rate for invesment properties for all the loans. They will lend me up to 90%. I bought one property in Jan-00 and I am looking to get it re-valued up by 27%. Wish me luck with the valuer, I may need it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Paul H

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Paul H
Date: 02 Feb 2001
Time: 00:22:40

John, The one area you have not quite understood is the expense LOC. When you revalue your IP property, you need to understand that the increasing amount in the expense IP is actually capitalised expenses. Once you reborrow off your IP LOC to top up the EXPENSE LOC, you will not be able to claim the interest on the top up amount as a deduction, as you have already claimed the initial amount as an expense.

The ATO took a dim view to this, having killed most of the split loan ideas in the past (about 3 years ago).

The rest of the idea is standard.

The next point however that you need to consider, is that at some point, the IP loan will convert to P&I and will need to be paid off. Many people follow the reduction schemes, but get caught out when they need to pay back the principal, as this comes out of AFTER tax income (Principal is not deductable).

When you plan to implement the equivalent of the schemes remember to consider a few things.

1/ LOC can demand a 1% premium on top of a basic variable rate. Thats $2,000 PA on a $200,000 Loan!!
2/ On average, a net income of $4,000 - $6,000 disposable income per month is needed in order to make it worthwhile to use any LOC or Offset feature with sweep facility work. (Don't you just love averages!!).
3/ Ask your broker not only is the rate they offer the best they have (AAPR), is it the best generally available?


Compare any broker deal with those from HOMEPATH (comm bank wholesale) and VIC/NSW/QLD loans ( http://www.homeloans.com.au ). Most general brokers (bulk mortgage groups such as Mortgage Choice, AFG, Fintrack, PLAN) only compare what their software supplier has arranged, not what is targeted as the best available. Note..They do have some good deals..even great deals..just remember they don't have ALL the deals.

Well, thats my 2 cents for the day...

Paul H.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Adam

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Adam
Date: 31 Jan 2001
Time: 22:36:32

My property that I have just rented out, has been rented out by the CEO of one of these debt reduction companies, he's very nice, however somehow I think i'm going to get cornered into a talk about restructuring my loans. Regards Adam
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gee Cee

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Gee Cee Same problem
Date: 01 Feb 2001
Time: 15:21:06

I know what ya mean.

Apparently one of my best tenants has a side job as a hooker.

She is never late with the rent though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Adam

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Adam
Date: 02 Feb 2001
Time: 10:12:37

What's her phone number? Regards, Adam
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Geoff W

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Geoff W
Date: 01 Feb 2001
Time: 20:25:54

Hey Gee Cee,

Great situation!

You could get paid in kind, and not have to pay tax on the proceeds!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Robert

Reply: 1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1
From: Mike .


Re: How Mortgage Reduction Schemes Work
From: Robert
Date: 01 Feb 2001
Time: 17:22:17

And how do you actually receive the rent from this tenant??

I hope it's via an agent....

hehe

Robert
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top