Fire rated wall

S

sahi

Hi,

My IP is located on Central Coast, NSW, it is an 8yo 5br brick veneer 1 level house.

I need to build a fire rated internal wall, extending all the way to the roof cavity, separating the main house from the attached granny flat.

At the moment in place of the future fire wall there is just a regular room wall with a door.

As far as I see, my potential options are (I would appreciate any comments on feasibility):

1. Remove the existing wall, build a fire wall instead
2. Turn the current wall into a fire rated wall (not sure this is possible)
3. Build a fire wall next to the existing wall

Does any of you SS's have any experience with building an internal fire wall in an existing house?

Does anyone have a rough idea of how much it can cost?

Of course, if someone can recommend a good and reliable builder on Central Coast, great!

Thank you very much,
Sahi
 
If you have a certifier engaged for the works then they will be able to point you in the right direction.

You may be able to get away with throwing up a couple of sheets of fyrechek plasterboard over the existing wall, but if you want to keep the door there it will have to be replaced with a fire rated door and certified.

At least thats how it works up here in QLD.
 
I actually don't care about this existing door, it can be blocked as I do not need access from the house to granny flat.

Yitsel, thank you for your response, I am not sure that couple of sheets of fyrechek plasterboard will qualify as fire rated 60/60/60 wall in NSW.
 
We have had to do the same job some time ago and ended up building a double brick wall from ground (on new foundations) up to the underneath of the tiles.

A big job with a lot of mess. Basically it entailed cutting the granny flat free from the house. Building support for the roof on the house side and working out how you will support the roof on the granny flat side. Pouring a concrete foundation and then building the brick wall inside the granny flat. Rebuilding the support structure on the granny flat side. The house was rented out throughout the building process.

If I had to do the job again I think I would look into the hebel process. Much the same procedure in that you have to cut a channel from bottom to top but at least you don't have to pour a concrete foundation.

An alternative could be that you reline all the ceilings in both the house and the granny flat with 2 layers of Fyrcheck Gyprock and also all the walls between the house and the granny flat. Sounds like a big job but in retrospect think it would be less work than the way we proceeded.

Obviously you would need to check whether this was acceptable to the powers to be.

Cheers
 
sahi said:
Hi,

My IP is located on Central Coast, NSW, it is an 8yo 5br brick veneer 1 level house.

I need to build a fire rated internal wall, extending all the way to the roof cavity, separating the main house from the attached granny flat.

At the moment in place of the future fire wall there is just a regular room wall with a door.

As far as I see, my potential options are (I would appreciate any comments on feasibility):

1. Remove the existing wall, build a fire wall instead
2. Turn the current wall into a fire rated wall (not sure this is possible)
3. Build a fire wall next to the existing wall

Does any of you SS's have any experience with building an internal fire wall in an existing house?

Does anyone have a rough idea of how much it can cost?

Of course, if someone can recommend a good and reliable builder on Central Coast, great!

Thank you very much,
Sahi
Click to expand...

It all depends on your roof line. If it's under the same gable roof as the dwelling its a bigger job as opposed to, say, a lean-to (sunroom) extension conversion. You CANNOT just throw fire-rated sheets on the walls. You also need to fire-rate the joins in the stud walls and provide structural support in the roof cavity. You have to completely seal the 2 areas from each other.

Take a look at the example (attached). There are a variety of methods depending on the structure.
If you approach a local private certifier he may know someone. Cost would be in the vicinity of $10,000+ for a medium sized house.
 

Attachments

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we were lucky,
only 65 tonnes of fire rated gyprock top completely enclose each unit from each other, 2 double loads
26 fire rated doors and frames
was still simpler than the other method of compliance, twin brick walls between each apartment basement floor to 3rd floor gable roof (52 feet)
 
Thanks a lot for the responses, I'll try to find plasterer to do the job with the fire rated sheets (and of course take care of the roof cavity).

Brazen, maybe I misunderstand the process, why do you think I need a certifier, isn't palsterer supposed to provide a certificate for the fire rated wall on completion?
 
sahi said:
Thanks a lot for the responses, I'll try to find plasterer to do the job with the fire rated sheets (and of course take care of the roof cavity).

Brazen, maybe I misunderstand the process, why do you think I need a certifier, isn't palsterer supposed to provide a certificate for the fire rated wall on completion?
Click to expand...

A plasterer can't provide a certificate for a fire-rated wall.
If the internal granny flat has previously been approved, you don't need approval.

If not, you'll need plans prepared, showing the fire rated wall (among other things) and the application presented to either Council or a Private Certifier for approval. Once approved, you can carry out the works needed. The Certifier will inspect the work at various stages (he will prescribe the inspection regime) and issue you an Occupation Certificate for the granny flat.

Serge.
 
kristaje said:
Hi Serge,

Could you recommend a private certifier for Holyroyd council nsw?

Thanks,
Jenny
Click to expand...

Certifier's aren't specific to any one Council. That is, they aren't restricted in which area they provide their services. I'd give you mine but unless I know a job is relevant to his services I won't hassle him.

If you're project is complying development or you already have a DA and require a PCA for the construction certificate you can find one through the NSW Building Services Board here:
http://www.bpb.nsw.gov.au/page/for-consumers/find-a-certifier/
 
kristaje said:
Serge, I'll send you a pm soon.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I got your message. I dont know if I posted the process in this thread but Ive outlined the process + costs for you, so that you can make an informed decision on how to get approval for the attached granny flat.

You may also like to look here:
http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?p=794045#post794045

...and further down the page:

I should mention rough pricing- an internal granny flat approval + physical works for splitting a single storey dwelling will cost (roughly):
- Approval $5,000 (includes drafting, Certifier fees)
- All Fire Rated Walls to roof cavity + paint: $10,000
- New kitchen (if needed) $7,000+
- New bathroom (if needed) $8,000+
TOTAL: Approx. $30,000



Regards,

Serge.
 
Last edited:
Continuing from this thread - fire rated wall

Hi, this is my first post in the forum, have been following some threads, awesome information esp for total newbies to building/renovating/property... Thought i would follow up on this thread since it has some of what we are planning to do.

We are planning to purchase a house (PPOR), which we would like to convert into a house with an attached granny. From reading posts on this forum, i understand there is a need to put up fire rated walls 60/60/60 between the house and the granny flat.

My question is this.. most of the walls in this property we are considering to purchase are blank walls (ie bedroom walls, no built ins etc), but one of the walls has a bedroom on one side and a bathroom on the other. We do not plan to renovate the bathroom. Will I need to tear down the bathroom wall and also the bed room wall (that is, tear down both sides of the fall) in order to put in a fire rated wall? Or is it enough to just add/modify to the bedroom side wall and leave the bathroom side untouched, to put in the fire rated wall? Its a single level, not above and below.

Thanks in advance for replies... much appreciated!
 
flioe said:
Hi, this is my first post in the forum, have been following some threads, awesome information esp for total newbies to building/renovating/property... Thought i would follow up on this thread since it has some of what we are planning to do.

We are planning to purchase a house (PPOR), which we would like to convert into a house with an attached granny. From reading posts on this forum, i understand there is a need to put up fire rated walls 60/60/60 between the house and the granny flat.

My question is this.. most of the walls in this property we are considering to purchase are blank walls (ie bedroom walls, no built ins etc), but one of the walls has a bedroom on one side and a bathroom on the other. We do not plan to renovate the bathroom. Will I need to tear down the bathroom wall and also the bed room wall (that is, tear down both sides of the fall) in order to put in a fire rated wall? Or is it enough to just add/modify to the bedroom side wall and leave the bathroom side untouched, to put in the fire rated wall? Its a single level, not above and below.

Thanks in advance for replies... much appreciated!
Click to expand...

I think what you are saying is that the bathroom would be part of the granny flat but you want to only fire rate outside of the bathroom.

This would not be valid. The idea with fire-rating is that it separates the two dwelling totally. By leaving the bathroom in the granny flat but not fire rates you have not achieved the fire rating.

The bathroom also possess other issue such as the plumbing. Any tap holes could no longer be in the fire rated wall as you couldn't seal them effectively. Any other pipes would need to have fire collars and again if there is no space then that will be an issue.

Cheers

PS maybe you might find another product that you could use on only one side of the wall. Have a look through this document http://www.gyprock.com.au/downloads/downloads/REDBOOK_Full_Download_01c5.pdf
 
Last edited:
handyandy said:
I think what you are saying is that the bathroom would be part of the granny flat but you want to only fire rate outside of the bathroom.

PS maybe you might find another product that you could use on only one side of the wall. Have a look through this document http://www.gyprock.com.au/downloads/downloads/REDBOOK_Full_Download_01c5.pdf
Click to expand...

No, not quite.... the bathroom would belong in the main house, the granny flat has another bathroom sited away from the walls that need fire rating. I do understand that every single part of the granny needs to be completely separated from the main house by the use of fire rated walls, as a self contained apartment would be. So we dont plan to renovate the bath on the other side of wall (main house), but we do need to fire rate that wall, which has 1 bedroom on one side (granny flat) and a bath room on the other (main house).. Is that doable? Or in putting in a fire rating wall, would we definitely need to redo the bathroom? I think it has a shower up against that wall at the moment, so its all tiled.

Thanks for the link, will check out gyprock.com.au... been looking a bit at these sites, hebel mainly, but the technicalities of it just goes way over my head! might as well be in a foreign language.
 
Ok,

The biggest problem you have is, if there is a raised floor. Fire rating material needs to be from the ground up. If the place is on a slab then that's good as it makes it easy. If not you will need to bring up some sort of foundation from the ground.

If that's the case then you can either find a product like hebel which you can just put on one side of the wall (the granny flat) and then build another wall to encapsulate the hebel wall and line that with gyprock.

As already mentioned any system will then have to up to the underside of the roof.

Cheers
 
I see.... thanks for that.

The property is definitely on stumps, I saw a crawl space door in the garage which has concrete slab.

Will needing to put in a foundation before putting in the fire rated wall increase the price of the wall by a lot? Would you have an idea about the price per meter for such a wall?

Thanks!!
 
Hi flioe,

I started this thread more than a year ago, it was painful but not too bad at the end. I recommend you engage a private certifier to have a look and advise what is required and what is the cheapest alternative. This certifier would later be the one who would approve the wall.

I brought certifier and builder together, 3 of us had a chat and agreed on a firewall that would run side by side with the existing wall.

I also had a problem with the bathroom in the "main" house, had to remove and replace the toilet and vanity and re-tile a bit.

Keep in mind that as the attached g/f is a new dwelling, it has to be compliant with the BASIX, it was a major pain in the ... for me.

Sahi.
 
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